SavedByGrace
Well-Known Member
YES, Jesus says so!
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Can An Unregenerate Man Repent?
- Thread starter tyndale1946
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YES, Jesus says so!
SavedByGrace
Well-Known Member
Paul is here discussing when an unsaved person is saved by the grace of the Lord, and nothing about being "made alive" before one can be saved!
As you can see folks, non-germane verse after verse is posted, but they do not support that the lost cannot will to be saved (Romans 9:16) or seek to be saved (Luke 13:24) or Luke 11:32 where the men of Nineveh repented. Verse after verse folks, it is a lock.
Dave G
Well-Known Member
" No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day." ( John 6:44 ).
" And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father." ( John 6:65 ).
Respectfully,
Those two right there tell me that there is something limiting us as men from approaching God in our hearts.
The Lord Jesus is very specific when He says, "No man CAN...except..."
Wouldn't you agree?
Whether or not you agree with me, "SavedbyGrace", should we not rather remember His grace towards us as unworthy sinners, and obey the Lord in our conduct towards others...instead of not obeying Him and His commands?
I respect that you disagree with me.
What I don't understand is the hostility that you seem to be justified in expressing towards those who disagree with you.
To me, there's no need to be anything less than civil on any subject found in God's word.
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Dave G
Well-Known Member
" And you [hath he quickened], who were dead in trespasses and sins;
2 wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
3 among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.
4 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,
5 even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved);
6 and hath raised [us] up together, and made [us] sit together in heavenly [places] in Christ Jesus:
7 that in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God:
9 not of works, lest any man should boast.
10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them." ( Ephesians 2:1-10 ).
To me, Paul here, under the inspiration ( God-breathed words ) of the Holy Spirit, is telling the Ephesians what happened to them, even when they were dead in their trespasses and sins.
In other words, it's a history lesson from God's point of view for their benefit.
If it's of any help in showing you why I understand it the way I do, I'd like to break things down as I see them being stated, verse by verse:
1) He's telling the Ephesians that they were dead in their trespasses and sins.
2) In time past ( before they believed, see chapter 1 ) they walked ( lived ) according to the course of this world...
According to the prince of the power of the air ( Satan ), the spirit that now works in the children of disobedience ( unbelievers ).
3) The Ephesians believers, as well as Paul, all had their "conversation" ( manner of life ) in time past in the lusts of their flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind and were, by their nature, the children of wrath.
4) But God who is rich in mercy for His great love that He loved them...the Ephesians...
5) Even when they were dead in sins, accomplished a work:
He "quickened" ( or made alive ) the Ephesians together with Christ, and reminds them that by grace they were saved.
6) God raised them up together and made them to sit together with Christ in the heavenlies...
7) For the express purpose that in the ages to come He might show the exceeding riches of His grace in kindness towards them through Jesus Christ.
8) He then tells them that they were saved by grace and through faith, and that it was not "of" themselves, but it was the gift of God.
9) It was also not "of" ( by or from ) works, for the purpose of ruling out boasting.
10) He finally tells them that they are God's workmanship, created specifically in Christ Jesus to good works...
Which God has ordained them to walk ( live ) in.
If I may ask, what do you see for yourself when you read this passage, line by line and verse by verse?
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SavedByGrace
Well-Known Member
John 12:32, "And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw ALL to Myself.”
Matthew 11:27, "All things have been handed over to me by my Father, and no one knows the Son except the Father, and no one knows the Father except the Son and anyone to whom the Son chooses to reveal him."
Romans 11:32, "For God has consigned all to disobedience, that he may have mercy on all.", that is, contextually Jews and Gentiles, which is what the entire human race consists of!
SavedByGrace
Well-Known Member
" And you [hath he quickened], who were dead in trespasses and sins;
2 wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
3 among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.
4 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,
5 even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved
6 and hath raised [us] up together, and made [us] sit together in heavenly [places] in Christ Jesus:
7 that in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God:
9 not of works, lest any man should boast.
10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them." ( Ephesians 2:1-10 ).
To me, Paul here, under the inspiration ( God-breathed words ) of the Holy Spirit, is telling the Ephesians what happened to them, even when they were dead in their trespasses and sins. In other words, it's a history lesson from God's point of view for their benefit.
If it's of any help, I'd like to break things down as I see them being stated, verse by verse:
1) He's telling the Ephesians that they were dead in their trespasses and sins.
2) In time past ( before they believed, see chapter 1 ) they walked ( lived ) according to the course of this world...
According to the prince of the power of the air ( Satan ), the spirit that now works in the children of disobedience ( unbelievers ).
3) The Ephesians believers, as well as Paul, all had their "conversation" ( manner of life )in time past in the lusts of their flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind and were, by their nature, the children of wrath.
4) But God who is rich in mercy for His great love that He loved them...the Ephesians...
5) Even when they were dead in sins, accomplished a work:
He "quikened" ( or made alive ) the Ephesians together with Christ, and reminds them that by grace they were saved.
6) God raised them up together and made them to sit together with Christ in the heavenlies...
7) For the express purpose that in the ages to come He might show the exceeding riches of His grace in kindness towards them through Jesus Christ.
8) He then tells them that they were saved by grace and through faith, and that it was not "of" themselves, but it was the gift of God.
9) It was also not "of" ( by or from ) works, for the purpose of ruling out boasting.
10) He finally tells them that they are God's workmanship, created specifically in Christ Jesus to good works...
Which God has ordained them to walk ( live ) in.
If I may ask, what do you see for yourself when you read this passage, line by line and verse by verse?
Paul is speaking of believers in their past life, "wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world"; and then says in their sinful state, when they believed the Gospel, they were "made alive" in Jesus. Paul says this in another way, "When you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and when you believed in Him, you were also sealed with the promised Holy Spirit." (Ephesians 1:13). Not as the KJV, "after you believed", as though there were some time difference in the Greek!
Dave G
Well-Known Member
Thank you for your reply.
I appreciate the summary of the passage, but I'm more interested in what you see, line by line, instead of simply summarized.
Would you care to indulge me by developing it verse by verse, so that the reader can see where we disagree on our understanding of the passage in question?
I also admit to being a bit curious myself.
Dave G
Well-Known Member
Amen.
SavedByGrace
Well-Known Member
Amen.
Amen! And since Jesus died for the sins of the whole world, whosoever will can come. Because God so very much Loves the human race that He gave...
Dave G
Well-Known Member
Actually I was agreeing with your posting Matthew 11:27,
which clearly states that no man knows the Son except for the Father, and no man knows the Father except the Son...
And those to whom the Son reveals Him.
In other words, the Son has to reveal the Father to someone, before they can know Him.
It's selective and limited by God.
I also agree that whosoever will, may come.
But we seem to have a fundamental difference in how we understand man's will, and the condition that it is in... based on Romans 1:18-32, Romans 3:10-18, and John 3:19-20 to name a few.
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SavedByGrace
Well-Known Member
What I can never understand about reformed theology is the denial and rejection of John 3.16 which very clearly says that salvation is freely available to the entire human race. There is no other way to take the words
Dave G
Well-Known Member
At this point, I would say that to you there is no other way to take it.
Plus, please consider that I've never taken my cues from "Reformed Theology"...
I simply picked up the Bible one day, studied it as the Lord commands ( 1 Peter 2:2, 2 Timothy 2:15 ), and I began to see it the way I do for myself over a long period of time.
I also carefully weighed John 3:16 against Psalms 5:5, Psalms 11:5, Romans 9:13 and others...
And decided that hate means hate, and love means love;
At least in most of the passages that talk about those subjects.
Taking them all together literally, introduces a massive contradiction, at least to me.
But I also agree that how you get there in your understanding is between you and the Lord.
He is the believer's Teacher, not men ( 1 John 2:20-27 ).
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Did God the Father intend that the Cross would offer potential or purchase real salvation then?
SavedByGrace
Well-Known Member
Potential
SavedByGrace
Well-Known Member
What about
New King James Version Psalm 106:40 Therefore the wrath of the Lord was kindled against His people, So that He abhorred His own inheritance.
About God's own elect people
Dave G
Well-Known Member
Abhor means "to regard with disgust and hatred."
Dave G
Well-Known Member
About God's chosen and elect nation of Israel?
To me there's a big difference between God's people spiritually ( out of every tongue, tribe and nation...Revelation 5:9, Revelation 7:9 ), and God's people physically pertaining to the nation of Israel.
SavedByGrace
Well-Known Member
Indeed, so God here regarded His own people, the elect Jews, with "disgust and hatred"!
In Romans 9:13, the Hebrew and the Greek means, "to love less". As when Jesus says that we must "hate" our family, and then we are told that we must "hate" no person. What Jesus is saying in the former, is that we ought to "love Him more", and everyone and everything, "less".
SavedByGrace
Well-Known Member
thats all it reall is, "TO ME"! Regardless of what the Bible actually says! You guys keep on misusing the Word of God for theological gain
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