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Can An Unregenerate Man Repent?

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AustinC

Well-Known Member
Why do you have to emend Scripture to make your point? Because you are reading your theology into this verse instead of letting the Word of God speak for itself.


This verse says precisely nothing about being "enabled to believe." Everyone is able to believe, John 3:16.

What were they to believe in?

1 Corinthians 15:3-4
For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received: that Christ died for our sins in accordance with the Scriptures, that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day in accordance with the Scriptures

Romans 3 tells you that no one is able to believe. Thus, God must make one alive before they can believe (hence my quoting Ephesians 2 for you to see).

John 3:16 says nothing about all human beings having the capacity to believe by their own will.

Who will believe?
Those whom the Father has given to Jesus.

Jesus answered them, “I told you, and you do not believe. The works that I do in my Father’s name bear witness about me, but you do not believe because you are not among my sheep. My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand.
~ John 10:25-29
 

Tsalagi

Member
What were they to believe in?

1 Corinthians 15:3-4
For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received: that Christ died for our sins in accordance with the Scriptures, that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day in accordance with the Scriptures

Romans 3 tells you that no one is able to believe. Thus, God must make one alive before they can believe (hence my quoting Ephesians 2 for you to see).

Romans 3 says no such thing, nor does Ephesians 2.

John 3:16 says nothing about all human beings having the capacity to believe by their own will.

Whosoever is not limited by any adjective in John 3.

Who will believe?
Those whom the Father has given to Jesus.

Scripture says no such thing. It's the other way around.

Jesus answered them, “I told you, and you do not believe. The works that I do in my Father’s name bear witness about me, but you do not believe because you are not among my sheep. My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand.
~ John 10:25-29

Excellent passage. Those who respond to the shepherd's voice are Christ's sheep and they follow Him, and they will never perish; they are given to Jesus by His Father. Those who do not accept Christ by faith are not His sheep, and do not heed His voice. Glad to see we agree on this score.
You neglected to add verse 18.

Romans 1:18-20
For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who by their unrighteousness suppress the truth. For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them. For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse.

Now look at Romans 3:9-18.

What then? Are we Jews any better off? No, not at all. For we have already charged that all, both Jews and Greeks, are under sin, as it is written: “None is righteous, no, not one; no one understands; no one seeks for God. All have turned aside; together they have become worthless; no one does good, not even one.”[/b[ “Their throat is an open grave; they use their tongues to deceive.” “The venom of asps is under their lips.” “Their mouth is full of curses and bitterness.” “Their feet are swift to shed blood; in their paths are ruin and misery, and the way of peace they have not known.” “There is no fear of God before their eyes.”

I have a Bible, what's your point?
 

AustinC

Well-Known Member
Romans 3 says no such thing, nor does Ephesians 2.



Whosoever is not limited by any adjective in John 3.



Scripture says no such thing. It's the other way around.



Excellent passage. Those who respond to the shepherd's voice are Christ's sheep and they follow Him, and they will never perish; they are given to Jesus by His Father. Those who do not accept Christ by faith are not His sheep, and do not heed His voice. Glad to see we agree on this score.


I have a Bible, what's your point?

Tsalagi, it is disingenuousness of you to say "Scripture says no such thing" when I provided scripture that says such a thing.

You have a Bible. Good. Read it. Read what I provided to you from the Bible. Perhaps in reading, God will change your mind.
 

Tsalagi

Member
Tsalagi, it is disingenuousness of you to say "Scripture says no such thing" when I provided scripture that says such a thing.

You have a Bible. Good. Read it. Read what I provided to you from the Bible. Perhaps in reading, God will change your mind.
I invite you to cite the passage in Romans 3 or Ephesians 2 that says "No one is able to believe. Thus, God must make one alive before they can believe." Maybe your Bible is different than mine, since mine says no such thing.
 
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Barry Johnson

Well-Known Member
The bible
The Effectual Operation of the Blessed Spirit in the Regeneration or Conversion of Sinners

by John Owen

Excerpt from The Holy Spirit

“To say that we are able by our own efforts to think good thoughts or give God spiritual obedience before we are spiritually regenerate is to overthrow the gospel and the faith of the universal church in all ages.”
- John Owen

All men can be divided into two groups. They are either regenerate or unregenerate. All men are born unregenerate (John 3:3-8).

...Spiritual darkness is in all men and lies on all men until God, by an almighty work of the Spirit, shines into men’s hearts, or creates light in them (Matt 4:16; John 1:5; Act 26:18; Eph 5:8; Col 1:13; 1 Pet 2:9). ...The nature of this spiritual darkness must be understood. When men have no light to see by, then they are in darkness (Exod. 10:23). Blind men are in darkness, either by birth or by illness or accident (Psa. 69:23; Gen 19:11; Acts 13:11). A spiritually blind man is in spiritual darkness and is ignorant of spiritual things.

There is an outward darkness on men and an inward darkness in men.

Outward darkness is when men do not have that light by which they are enabled to see. So outward spiritual darkness is upon men when there is nothing to enlighten them about God and spiritual things (Matt 4:16; Psa 119:105; Psa. 19:1-4,8; 2 Pet 1:19; Rom 10:15, 18). It is the work of the Holy Spirit to remove this darkness by sending the light of the gospel (Acts 13:2, 4; 16:6-10; Psa. 147:19,20).

Inward darkness, on the other hand, arises from the natural depravity and corruption of the minds of men concerning spiritual things. Man’s mind is depraved and corrupted in things which are natural, civil, political, and moral, as well as in things which are spiritual, heavenly and evangelical. This depravity is often held back from having its full effects by the common grace of the Holy Spirit. So, man’s mind being darkened, he is unable to see, receive, understand or believe to the saving of his soul. Spiritual things, or the mysteries of the gospel, without the Holy Spirit first creating within the soul a new light by which they can see and receive those things, cannot bring salvation.

However brilliant the mind may be, and however brilliant the preaching and presentation of the gospel might be, yet without the Holy Spirit first creating this light in them, they cannot receive, understand and agree with the truths preached, and so will not be led to salvation (Eph 4:17, 18).

So the unregenerate ‘walk in the futility of their mind’ (Eph 4:17). The natural inclination of the unregenerate mind is to seek those things that cannot satisfy (Gen 6:5). It is an unstable mind (Prov. 7:11-12). The unregenerate understanding is darkened and cannot judge things properly (Jhn 1:5). The unregenerate heart is blind. In Scripture the heart includes the will also. Light is received by the mind, applied by the understanding and used by the heart. ‘But if the light within is darkness,’ said Jesus, ‘how great is that darkness.’

...Even though the unconverted mind is highly educated and talented, yet it is utterly unable to receive and understand spiritually those things needful for its eternal salvation. It will not respond to the preaching of the gospel until renewed, enlightened and enabled to do so by the Holy Spirit: “But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned’ (1 Cor 2:14). The subject of this verse is the natural man. The natural man is quite opposite of the spiritual man (1 Cor 15:44; Jude 19).

Paul tells us that the first Adam became a living being; the last Adam became a life-giving spirit (1 Cor 15:45). The natural man comes from the first Adam and the spiritual man comes from the last Adam. The natural man is one that has all that is or can be had from the first Adam. He has a rational soul and is well able to use it. The natural man trusts in his reasoning powers and sees no need for any spiritual help. He does not see that God has given him a soul in order that it might learn and receive what he, God, has to give. Man is never made to live independently of God. Eyes are beautiful and useful, but if they try to see without light, their beauty and power will be of no use and the eyes might even be damaged. And if the unconverted mind tries to see spiritual things without the help of the Spirit of God, it will only end up destroying itself.

In verse fourteen [1 Cor 2] we see things put to the natural man. These things are ‘the things of the Spirit of God’. Now what are these things of the Spirit of God which are put to the natural man? Here are some of them, all from 1 Cor chapter 2, ‘Jesus and him crucified’ (v.2). ‘The hidden wisdom which God ordained before the ages for our glory’ (v. 7). “The things that are freely given to us by God’ (v.12). ‘The mind of Christ’ (v. 16).

These are the things of the Spirit of God. These are things that cannot be received except by sovereign, supernatural illumination. These are the things that ‘eye has not see, nor ear heard, nor have entered into the heart of man the things which God has prepared for those who love him’ (v.9). They are things from God’s eternal counsel. These are the things which the mind of man at his first creation had no idea existed (Eph 3:8-11).

Two things can be said of the natural man and the things of the Spirit of God. Firstly, he does not receive them: secondly, he cannot know them.

In this double assertion we learn firstly that the power to receive spiritual things is denied the natural man (Rom 8:7). He cannot receive them because they are spiritually discerned. We learn secondly that the natural man willingly rejects them. This is implied in the words ‘does not receive the things of the Spirit of God’. And he rejects them because they appear to him to be foolish.

The natural man cannot, will not and does not receive the things of the Spirit of God. He can know the literal sense of the doctrines presented to him. He can know that Jesus Christ was crucified. But there is a wide difference between receiving doctrines as mere statements presented to him and knowing the reality which those statements present.

The natural man can know the way of righteousness as a mere statement (2 Pet. 2:21). Other things he can know, merely as ideas presented to him (Titus 1:16; Rom 2:23, 24). But these truths have no transforming effect on his life. The spiritual man, on the other hand, knows them in reality and they have a transforming effect on his life (Rom 12:2; Eph 4:22-24).

Now before spiritual things can be received two things are necessary. It is necessary that we understand them, agree with them and receive them because they agree with wisdom, holiness and righteousness of God (1 Cor 1:23, 24). It is also necessary that we see how well adapted they are to glorifying God, the salvation of sinners and bringing the church to grace and glory. The natural man cannot do this. He can, however, receive exhortations, promises, commands and threatenings in the gospel (1 John 5:20). But to him the wisdom of God is foolishness. Paul says that the ‘foolishness of God is wiser than men’ (1 Cor 1:25). But to the natural man they are foolishness.... He cannot [receive them] because they are spiritually discerned. The natural man by the natural light of reason can discern natural things. The spiritual man by a spiritual light received from Jesus Christ discerns spiritual things.

Paul teaches us the Christ ‘has delivered us from the power of darkness and translated us into the kingdom of the Son of his love’ (Col 1:13).

[Due to the corruption of nature] ...the darkness fills the mind with enmity against God and all the things of God ( Col 1:21; Rom 8:7). If God is great in goodness and beauty, why do men hate him? This hatred arises from this darkness which is the corruption and depravity of our nature.

This darkness fills the mind with prejudices against all spiritual things, and the mind is utterly unable to free itself from the prejudices. The darkened mind sees first the things that it lusts after. Then, later, it recognizes those lusts in itself. But when men are called to seek God above all other desires, then this is considered to be foolish, because to the unconverted mind things that are spiritual things will never bring contentment, happiness and satisfaction. In particular, the unregenerate mind has a special bias against the gospel... Brother Glen:)... Part 1
It would make the bible a farce to say a unregenerated man cannot change his mind and respond positively to the gospel.
 
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Scott Downey

Well-Known Member
Jesus tells us why people do not believe in Him in verse 26
Obviously if a person does not believe, they wont repent either.
John 10:25-27
New King James Version
25 Jesus answered them, “I told you, and you do not believe. The works that I do in My Father’s name, they bear witness of Me.
26 But you do not believe, because you are not of My sheep, as I said to you.
27 My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me.

Isaiah also tells us why people don't believe in Christ

John 12:37-41
New King James Version
37 But although He had done so many signs before them, they did not believe in Him, 38 that the word of Isaiah the prophet might be fulfilled, which he spoke:
“Lord, who has believed our report?
And to whom has the arm of the Lord been revealed?”

39 Therefore they could not believe, because Isaiah said again:
40 “He has blinded their eyes and hardened their hearts,
Lest they should see with their eyes,
Lest they should understand with their hearts and turn,
So that I should heal them.”
41 These things Isaiah said when he saw His glory and spoke of Him.

The above is verified here, Romans 10:16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah says, “Lord, who has believed our report?”

Some are hardened, Romans 9:18 says, whom He wills, He hardens

Acts 19:8-10
New King James Version
8 And he went into the synagogue and spoke boldly for three months, reasoning and persuading concerning the things of the kingdom of God.
9 But when some were hardened and did not believe, but spoke evil of the Way before the multitude, he departed from them and withdrew the disciples, reasoning daily in the school of Tyrannus. 10 And this continued for two years, so that all who dwelt in Asia heard the word of the Lord Jesus, both Jews and Greeks.

People who are in active resistance to God, will also never repent unless God grants them repentance, such people can not choose to repent as they are uncircumcised in heart and ear, Acts 7:51 “You stiff-necked and uncircumcised in heart and ears! You always resist the Holy Spirit; as your fathers did, so do you.

2 Timothy 2:24-26
New King James Version
24 And a servant of the Lord must not quarrel but be gentle to all, able to teach, patient,
25 in humility correcting those who are in opposition, if God perhaps will grant them repentance, so that they may know the truth,
26 and that they may come to their senses and escape the snare of the devil, having been taken captive by him to do his will.

Jesus also says none can come to Him unless granted by God

John 6
64 But there are some of you who do not believe.” For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were who did not believe, and who would betray Him.
65 And He said, “Therefore I have said to you that no one can come to Me unless it has been granted to him by My Father.”

so if He does not grant for you to come to Christ, you can not believe, repent, or have any ability to be saved . God wont save anyone that He has not granted to come to Christ.
 

Dave G

Well-Known Member
Everyone is enabled to believe, but very many choose not to do so. I refer you to Romans 1:19-21.
See John 8:43-47.
There is a reason why, according to the details of Scripture, that a person believes ( Philippians 1:29 ) or does not believe ( John 10:26 ).

May God bless you greatly in your studies.
 
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Dave G

Well-Known Member
.
"No one is able to believe. Thus, God must make one alive before they can believe."
To me, it's understood out of Romans 3:10-18 and Acts of the Apostles 16:14....
No man seeks God or understands Him, and God had to open Lydia's heart so that she listened to Paul's words.


The passage in Romans 3:10-18, like Psalms 10 and Psalms 14, describes the default condition of our heart and attitude as stated in Romans 1:18-32.
You don't see that when you read it?
Maybe your Bible is different than mine, since mine says no such thing.
Mine doesn't state it all in one "verse", either.

But when I put specific statements together, like,
" No man can come to me except the Father draw him...",
"No man can come to me except it were given to him of my Father..."
" There is none that seeketh, there is none that understandeth…",
" Ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep....",
" It is given to you in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on Him..."
"...as many as were ordained to eternal life, believed.",

Then I come to the conclusion that no one can ( as the words literally state ) come to Christ unless God does something first...
Exactly as the Lord Jesus lays out in John 6, for example.

As for Ephesians 2, Paul lays out in Ephesians 1 why the Ephesians believed...
Because they were chosen in Christ from the foundation of the world and predestinated to their adoption as sons ( Ephesians 1:4-5 ).

Granted, it took a while for me, but those details eventually started to catch my attention.
Do they catch yours?
 
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MB

Well-Known Member
Man has to repent to be saved. It's simple the road to hell does not lead any where else. Man has to turn and follow a different direction. To repent means to turn.
MB
 

Salty

20,000 Posts Club
Administrator
six hour warning
This thread will be closed no sooner than 5 pm EST / 2 PM PST
 

Scott Downey

Well-Known Member
Romans 1 does not means they know Christ is God and then rejected Christ...they simply rejected the evidence of God in creation, that they were made by God their Creator God, and so then worship created things.
Arguing that because of Romans 1, all men are enabled to know Christ is foolishness, and the idea simply is against what many other scriptures say.

19 because what may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has shown it to them. 20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse, 21 because, although they knew God (as the Creator of all things) , they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened.


Romans 10
14 How then shall they call on Him in whom they have not believed? And how shall they believe in Him of whom they have not heard? And how shall they hear without a preacher? 15 And how shall they preach unless they are sent? As it is written:

“How beautiful are the feet of those who preach the gospel of peace,
Who bring glad tidings of good things!”

16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah says, “Lord, who has believed our report?” 17 So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

18 But I say, have they not heard? Yes indeed:

“Their sound has gone out to all the earth,
And their words to the ends of the world.”

19 But I say, did Israel not know? First Moses says:

“I will provoke you to jealousy by those who are not a nation,
I will move you to anger by a foolish nation.”

20 But Isaiah is very bold and says:

“I was found by those who did not seek Me;
I was made manifest to those who did not ask for Me.”

21 But to Israel he says:

“All day long I have stretched out My hands
To a disobedient and contrary people.”
 

Sai

Well-Known Member
Man has to repent to be saved. It's simple the road to hell does not lead any where else. Man has to turn and follow a different direction. To repent means to turn.
MB

All Wrong


Blessings
 

Tsalagi

Member
.

To me, it's understood out of Romans 3:10-18 and Acts of the Apostles 16:14....
No man seeks God or understands Him, and God had to open Lydia's heart so that she listened to Paul's words.


The passage in Romans 3:10-18, like Psalms 10 and Psalms 14, describes the default condition of our heart and attitude as stated in Romans 1:18-32.
You don't see that when you read it?

Mine doesn't state it all in one "verse", either.

But when I put specific statements together, like,
" No man can come to me except the Father draw him...",
"No man can come to me except it were given to him of my Father..."
" There is none that seeketh, there is none that understandeth…",
" Ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep....",
" It is given to you in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on Him..."
"...as many as were ordained to eternal life, believed.",

Then I come to the conclusion that no one can ( as the words literally state ) come to Christ unless God does something first...
Exactly as the Lord Jesus lays out in John 6, for example.

As for Ephesians 2, Paul lays out in Ephesians 1 why the Ephesians believed...
Because they were chosen in Christ from the foundation of the world and predestinated to their adoption as sons ( Ephesians 1:4-5 ).

Granted, it took a while for me, but those details eventually started to catch my attention.
Do they catch yours?
I appreciate your detailed response. I don't have time to address each passage at the moment, but I'm glad you mentioned Lydia in Acts 16:14 because (in my view) it contains the key to understanding Jesus' words about His sheep.

Lydia is a habitual visitor to a place of prayer by the river. She listens when Paul speaks to the women gathered there. She is already one who worships God. If she had died the day before the apostle's visit, it is not hard to believe she would have been saved under the Old Testament faith criteria. So there is a prior basis of personal faith which God recognizes as He opens her heart to Paul's words. The same can be said of Jesus' disciples who left their fishing business to go to the Jordan and hear the witness of John the Baptist, and who then followed Jesus when John identifies the Lamb of God. It was "given to them" to understand the mystery of the kingdom (Matthew 13:11-12) because they had already expressed interest and faith ("to him who has more will be given").

This is, of course, not the entirety of the foundation for my understanding, but representative. In a nutshell, the sheep Jesus referred to as hearing His voice were those in Israel who had already inclined their hearts toward God, and on that basis were given more truth and the ability to understand it.
 
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AustinC

Well-Known Member
I invite you to cite the passage in Romans 3 or Ephesians 2 that says "No one is able to believe. Thus, God must make one alive before they can believe." Maybe your Bible is different than mine, since mine says no such thing.
I cited the passage. You can read it. Romans 3: No one seeks God. It is very clear.
Ephesians 2: All were dead. But God makes people alive.

Do humans make themselves spiritually alive so that they can repent, which then moves God to graciously save them?

The text of scripture has been shared. It is incumbent upon you to grasp what it says.
 
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