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Paul was not with John...If he can call Paul he could call anyone he chooses!
Your rationalization knows no boundaries.Paul was not with John...If he can call Paul he could call anyone he chooses!
Where does it say that the apostles will be here until we all come to the unity of the faith..."? It doesn't say that.Where do you justify this in scripture? This is an assumption that supports your theology that miracles, tongues, the power of God, apostles, prophets, the gifts of the Spirit, the leading of God's Spirit, and many other things are no longer available to the church!
Eph. 4:11-13 says the apostles will be here until we all come to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God to a perfect man to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ.
The letter was written to the Ephesians. You will have to ask them.Are we in unity of the faith?
Have we all come in the knowledge of the Son of God?
Are we all a perfect (totally complete and mature) man?
Have we come to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ?
The word "that" (that which is to come) is in the neuter "teleios" just like certain words that refer to the "word." There is no such thing as "The Church". That is a Roman Catholic invention. The word ekklesia always means local church. The word means assembly. The churches were complete before the end of the first century. In fact the church of Jerusalem was "complete" and functioning by Acts 6 and especially by Acts 15, where we see James as its pastor and James as the one giving the decision of the matter in question. There are only churches in the Bible, not "The Church." Your theory doesn't fit.All your theology sounds good taken out of context and with no understanding of the Scripture..but let's examine this verse and what it says in context...
"For we know in part, and we prophecy in part. But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away."
THe word perfect means complete. To say that it is the Bible is a false assumption!
There is no "Church," only "churches." Ekklesia means assembly. There is no such thing as an unassembled assembly.Paul is talking about the Church being joined to Christ in complete submission and maturity.
No, it means our image is reflected back to us in the mirror of God's Word.Examine the rest of the verse as it is written in this paragraph and you will see how it speaks of maturity, not the completeion of the Bible.
To say we have reached the goal in context of this scriptures is to say that you know God just as well as God knows you. You just say what you are taught to say without really giving it any serious thought.
I don't get rid of it; I rightly divide the word of truth. When the apostles died, the apostolic age ended. When Moses died the age of Moses ended. When the OT Prophets died, the prophetic age ended. Doesn't common sense appeal to you?You can get rid of any part of the Bible by saying "THat was for the apostolic age." Or "Those scriptures are no longer valid in Acts."
Who is to say that we deny the power of the Holy Spirit, except for you?If God sent the Holy Spirit on the Day of Pentecost to empower His church and we deny that power today...what is that saying?
Never seen one! But others have witnessed and some have been healed by laying on of hands! Apostle is one sent/called by God!paul was called and commissoned by jesus as his Apostle to the gentiles, he was appointed as such as one "born out of season"...
he saw the risen christ, who converted and commissioned him to be his spokesman, and he proved that calling by Apsotolic gifts and inspired scriptures...
ANY able to claim and verify that since paul?
I do not put boundaries where the Word does not! YOu on the othere hand put limits on God and but him in your little box! If He called Paul...he could call others!Your rationalization knows no boundaries.
Paul:
--spent three years in Arabia receiving direct revelation with Jesus Christ before he even met the Apostles.
--The apostles, first afraid of him, then readily accepted him as an apostle.
--The Lord appeared to Annanias and told him he would be a special vessel for him, suffering many things for His sake.
--Paul testifies many times how God called him to be the Apostle to the Gentiles, while Peter was the Apostle to the Jews.
--In at least two epistles he writes, that God called him as an "preacher, an apostle and a teacher."
--In Romans 1:1, he introduces himself as an apostle of Jesus Christ.
The main requirement stated there is that he must be a witness to the resurrection which he was. Read 1Cor.15
Context! Context! I shared this!Where does it say that the apostles will be here until we all come to the unity of the faith..."? It doesn't say that.
You use that for any part of the scriptures that you do not want to believe!The letter was written to the Ephesians. You will have to ask them.
That is not to say that many of the things that were written to the Ephesians are not applicable to us today, but obviously "apostles" are not. The Ephesian Church lived in the day and age of the Apostles, we don't.
You added complete canon/ scripture/bible to the word of God! In context the Bible is not even mentioned in that chapter! He is speaking of maturity! The church is not complete! I would call it far from being mature!The word "that" (that which is to come) is in the neuter "teleios" just like certain words that refer to the "word." There is no such thing as "The Church". That is a Roman Catholic invention. The word ekklesia always means local church. The word means assembly. The churches were complete before the end of the first century. In fact the church of Jerusalem was "complete" and functioning by Acts 6 and especially by Acts 15, where we see James as its pastor and James as the one giving the decision of the matter in question. There are only churches in the Bible, not "The Church." Your theory doesn't fit.
There is no "Church," only "churches." Ekklesia means assembly. There is no such thing as an unassembled assembly.
No confusion here! Just because the original 12 apostles died does not mean the Holy Spirit stop manifesting Himself through the church! THe apostles were not the only ones that walked it out!No, it means our image is reflected back to us in the mirror of God's Word.
I don't get rid of it; I rightly divide the word of truth. When the apostles died, the apostolic age ended. When Moses died the age of Moses ended. When the OT Prophets died, the prophetic age ended. Doesn't common sense appeal to you?
Who is to say that we deny the power of the Holy Spirit, except for you?
You are one confused person.
The word for church is ekklesia, a feminine noun. It means assembly, which cannot be unassembled. It defies the meaning you attach to it.You added complete canon/ scripture/bible to the word of God! In context the Bible is not even mentioned in that chapter! He is speaking of maturity! The church is not complete! I would call it far from being mature!
You still don't get it do you.No confusion here! Just because the original 12 apostles died does not mean the Holy Spirit stop manifesting Himself through the church! THe apostles were not the only ones that walked it out!
IMO, this definition does NOT apply to the super-important 5-fold ministry (Eph 4:11).Apostle is one sent/called by God!
Yes, it will.It surely will be merciful when this thread gets long enough to close.
Just sayin...