Miracles are throughout the Bible!
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can One Be Charasmatic And NOT Be In Word of faith?
- Thread starter Yeshua1
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Look in the latter part of Acts chapter one. A requirement to be an apostle is that he had to be a witness of the resurrection of Christ. Did you witness the resurrected Christ? Know of anyone that did? In this generation?
That doesn't matter. This was one of the main purposes. When it ceased then the purposes for the signs were removed away. The lesser purposes were all secondary to that. You simply can't deny scripture here.
An important reason, and if you deny it; you deny Scripture.
I can see why you want to tear these verses out of your Bible and completely ignore them, but you can't do that, and believe them at the same time. They are there for a purpose.
You have much to learn. The inspired Word of God was penned by the Apostles (and prophets of the OT). That is why, when they passed away we were left with God's revelation in His written Word, with the promise, "but my word shall never pass away."
And in 1Pet.1:23:
1 Peter 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.
--The Lord left us the word, by which we are born again.
It is the word of God which lives and abides forever.
It is the Holy Spirit that inspired the Word of God.
It is the Holy Spirit that testified of Christ. He does not testify of Himself. He testifies only of Christ. The Word of God centers around the person of Christ, who is the author and finisher of our faith.
He is not found in a mystical, esoteric, existential, metaphysical Charismatic religious based religion such as you have. He is found in the Word of God which lives and abides forever.
You have never once witnessed the gift of healing.
Rather proof that you don't understand it.
1 Corinthians 13:8 Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.
--These are revelatory gifts. When the revelation of God was completed they ceased. The Charismatics are exercising "fraudulently" something they don't have. They are adding to the Word of God, which was completed by the end of the first century with the completion of the Book of Revelation. All revelatory gifts ceased then, including the "word of knowledge."
This is another example of you redefining what the actual gift is.
If the gifts have ceased, of course not. They are evil imitations caused by Satan to deceive others into thinking they have something from God when they don't. If they are not from God, awaken, then who are they from? You stand on dangerous ground.
miracles are scattered in the bible, as God did not do them all the time, ONLY in certain times and seasons!
how many was itrecorded that he did among His people 400 yeras in Egyptian bondgae? or the Centuries between OT/NT times?
NOt personally! But if He visited Paul after the resurrection, who am I to say he can not again?? I can show you other apostles other than the 12...but we have been through this! You will not listen now just as you did not then!
I will not deny that he still manifest himself today! I have experienced and witnessed it myself!
And if you deny the scriptures concerning the other reasons...do you deny scriptures?
Oh I do not ignore them at all! I just use the greater weight of evidence to determine how I believe! You interpretation contradicts too many other scriptures!
His Son also lives forever! The Word of God is a testamony of the Son of God!
agreed!
Well, the Holy Spirit that I have come to know does testify of my Savoir!
I have given you a testimony of this...and you either did not read it or explained it away! So I will not bother here to go over it again! But, Yes! I have witnessed a healing by the laying on of hands!
Well, if you believed in the word of knowledge you might experience a word to you personally...one that does not change or alter the Bible in any way!
But they are from God! My question was "Can you show me in scriptures examples of the manifestation of the Holy Spirit in the OT and the NT?" Since you think you know what each one is...
Do you think that jesus has appeared to those like Oral Roberts, kenneth copeland, who claimed he did, and gave them their "revealtions?"
I do not know their testimony! But if he did with Paul who are we to say he can not do it again?
Study 1Cor.15, a chapter devoted to the resurrection. Paul was an exception. He was accepted by the apostles as an apostle. No one else was. He spent three years in Arabia and received direct revelation from the Lord. If you look in the latter half of 1Cor.11, he describes exactly what went on in the upper room, though he never was there. He describes himself as "one born out of due time," "called to be an apostle, a teacher and a preacher," called to be an apostle to the Gentiles." His calling was from God. Other than the apostle Paul there were only twelve apostles, whose names will be written on the foundations of the 12 walls of the New Jerusalem. And believe me, yours will not be there.
Will their names be written on the foundations of the 12 walls of the New Jerusalem (Rev.21:14)?
You are still confused about the word "manifest."
(CEV) The Spirit has given each of us a special way of serving others. (1Cor.12:7)
--Yes, I also have seen him work in special ways as I and others serve others. That is all it means. I have experienced that, as every believer does.
You must take all the reasons into consideration. But you don't.
They were a sign to authenticate the apostles. But the apostles are dead.
They were a sign to the unbelieving Jew of the first century. But they are all dead.
They were for a temporary period of time while revelation was still being written. But now revelation is complete. They are no longer needed.
--All of the purposes for the sign gifts of the Spirit have been fulfilled. They have ceased as the Scriptures said they would.
No it doesn't, as I have just demonstrated. Yet you don't know what to do with those two Scriptures. You cannot harmonize them with the rest of Scriptures. Your only solution is to tear them out of your Bible.
Yes, that is why we are commanded, even by the Lord Himself, to use it!
"You do err not knowing the Scriptures neither the power of God."
But you continue to testify of the Holy Spirit and not of Christ. You contradict the Scriptures in this regard.
Don't lie. You have seen an answer to prayer by the laying on of hands. That is not the gift of healing. Peter had the gift of healing. He healed all that came to him--broken limbs, every kind of disease--everyone was healed and no one turned away--thousands. You have never witnessed that in your lifetime, because you have never witnessed anyone that has the gift of healing.
The word of knowledge was a revelatory gift that gave revelation later added to the canon of Scripture. Or it was no different than Scripture that had already been written. But you already have completed Bibles, which makes the word of knowledge redundant, and a useless gift. It is a cheap imitation--the devil's mockery of the real thing.
(CEV) The Spirit has given each of us a special way of serving others.
Every time someone was used of God, the Spirit used him in a special way. I don't want to take the time to count.
They believe in heresy, and are charlatans. You still think that Jesus appeared to them?
There is nothing in the Bible about the apostolic age except the word, "Til," in Ephesians 4. Til means Until and would seem to limit the apostles to a certain time period when all these four things are accomplished.
Till we all come in the unity of the faith
Till we all come in the knowledge of the Son of God
Till we all come to a perfect [totally complete and mature] man
Till we all come to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ
Given that fact, it is now the apostolic age.
No, I am not! What is it that you need to know about manifest??? The Holy Spirit will manifest through us in those listed in 1 Cor. 12! I am not confused! But you are in denial about those scriptures! Because for you to admit what it REALLY means would blow a hole in your theology!
How do I not?? I have admitted to all of them! You on the other hand have denied all of them but the one!
Tongues is the only manifestation mentioned for this reason and I have explained this as well! BUT THIS IS NOT THE ONLY REASON FOR TONGUES!
You must read another Bible because my Bible says they will be here until we know as we are known and we see face to face!
I have reconciled them to all scriptures without. I have admitted the purposes mentioned...I just don't limit to just them as you do!
Pay close attention to the last phrase of that scripture!
Where have I not testified of Christ! If it was not for Christ we would not have the Holy Spirit!
You get into calling people liars, don't you! I know what I witnessed!
God will not be pleased by you calling all of his gifts useless! Would you like me to give you an example in scriptures of a word of knowledge since you can not seem to find one?
That is what I thought! You can not find an example of word of knowledge or wisdom...do you know the difference in the two? Baptist failed to teach this to me in the last 40 something years! They could never explain what the gifts were even back when they believed they were available!
paul seemed to think that the foundation laid in was Christ, and the prophets/Apostles on top of Him...
The Apsotles HAD to be One that either walked with jesus as a disciple, or else in case of paul, as one "out of season"... Who had the risen christ visit him...
peter said that Jesus is in heaven now, UNTIL he returns at his second coming, so there will be no more appearances of him to speak to another person until then!
We have the completed canon...
Do you hold that the Canon was not closed, that God still gives us revelation thru Apsotles/prophets today?
THe foundation was the doctrine and teachings of Jesus! THe Apostles built on that.. as we should be!
Ephesians 2:19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;
20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;
--Here is the foundation of the church, the local church, of which every Biblical local church is to model themselves after.
As in 1Cor.3:11 our foundation is Christ. He is the rock. However here, he is delineated as the chief cornerstone. There is no contradiction. The chief cornerstone of the foundation is the most important part of the foundation. Without it the foundation (in fact the entire building) would not be square), and would eventually collapse. It is the most important part of the foundation.
1Cor.10:4 also says: "and that rock was Christ.
--However the Apostles (authors of the NT), and the prophets (authors of the OT) are also part of that foundation. There is one and only one thread throughout the entire Bible that holds it all together--redemption through Christ. In the OT Christ is concealed; in the NT Christ is revealed. He is on every page. This is how Christ speaks to us today--through the written word of God. This is our foundation.
21 In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:
--The entire building is fit together. A wise builder fits the building together piece by piece so that it will not collapse. It is fitly framed. It will be a holy temple.
22 In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.
We are the building blocks of this great temple. If we are not holy vessels the Lord cannot use us in this building. We must use the talents and the gifts that He has given us. But he cannot give us those things which are not more. We cannot perform the miracles of Elijah, Elisha and Moses. Neither can we perform the miracles of Jesus, and the Apostles. They have ceased.
We are not the foundation. The foundation was laid in the apostolic age. That age died with the apostles, as did the sign gifts (Heb.2:3,4; 2Cor.12:12).
The foundation is Christ! It was his doctrines that we are to build upon! The 12 Apostles are the foundations built around the cornerstone! But we are to build upon the same doctrines as that foundation.
You have yet to prove any apostolic age has ended! As I posted earlier..they are part of the 5 fold ministeries!
1 Cor. 3:11-15 tells us that it is our work that we build upon the foundation! So what works are we adding to the foundation?
You are good at making up your own doctrines and contradicting the Scripture. Throughout Jesus is referred to as the chief cornerstone.
1 Peter 2:6 Wherefore also it is contained in the scripture, Behold, I lay in Sion a chief corner stone, elect, precious: and he that believeth on him shall not be confounded.
7 Unto you therefore which believe he is precious: but unto them which be disobedient, the stone which the builders disallowed, the same is made the head of the corner,
Christ is only one piece of the foundation, the most important piece, but one piece. The foundation was made up of more than one "rock." Peter himself was called a "rock." But Christ was a larger rock, a massive rock, the chief rock. The apostles and prophets were part of the foundation as the Scriptures say. Christ was the chief cornerstone. If you don't believe that you don't believe what the Scripture plainly says.
What five-fold ministry? Never heard of it. Must be some new-fangled Charismatic man-made doctrine not heard for 2,000 years.
Is it not common sense that the Apostolic Age ended with the death of the Apostles??
That age can only last as long as the ones for whom it is named after are alive. That is the entire purpose of calling it "The Apostolic Age--the age when the apostles were alive. Use common sense here. Look it up in some Bible Encyclopedias. All Scripture must harmonize. 1Cor.3:11 does give the truth, but that truth is expanded on elsewhere. One cannot disregard what the rest of the Bible says. That Christ is the "entire" foundation is not true, neither does 1Cor.3:11 say that. You are disregarding what it says in Ephesians and in 1Pet.2
actually, the Apostles "built" the theological floor over the foundation of the Cross of Christ, as did the priophets in the OT!
jesus life/death/resurrection /ascension is the very heart/basis of real chrsitianity, but the Apsotles/prophets wrote down the theological aspect of what they all meant!
They were inspired to record down those revelations, NONE have been so gifted since Apsotle John died though!
your good about reading over most of my post..and making smart remarks! I meant that he was the cornerstone! I did say the Apostles built on the cornerstone (the cornerstone being Christ...I did not think I needed to mention that since you already brought that out).
I learned this in a Baptist church! Go back about 6 post...
There is nothing in the Bible about the apostolic age except the word, "Til," in Ephesians 4. Til means Until and would seem to limit the apostles to a certain time period when all these four things are accomplished.
Till we all come in the unity of the faith
Till we all come in the knowledge of the Son of God
Till we all come to a perfect [totally complete and mature] man
Till we all come to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ
Given that fact, it is now the apostolic age.
That is because you limit apostles to just the 12!Is it not common sense that the Apostolic Age ended with the death of the Apostles??
I agree that Jesus is the cornerstone and the apostles are the foundation! It is what we are to build on that foundation and what that foundation is that we are not seeing eye to eye on!
Again, Where does it mention the "age of the apostles" in scripture?
jesus built the church upon 12 men, Apsotles, as he gave unto them Apsotolic authority, the truth of HS inspiration etc..
Paul was the last Apostle chosen, John last to die, and there Church NEVER saw any other Apsotles repalcing them, for a mark of an Apsotle was HAD to either walk with Christ while he was here on earth, or else have him appear to them, as he did paul!
Do you think others have seen the risen Chrsit since Apsotle John at patmos?
There are over twenty apostles named in the New Testament!
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