Far as I know, the Lord saw 12 of them as being "real", as they were the ones that wer His personal group, and paul!
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can One Be Charasmatic And NOT Be In Word of faith?
- Thread starter Yeshua1
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Far as I know, the Lord saw 12 of them as being "real", as they were the ones that wer His personal group, and paul!
....and if I can show you more than those...would that change anything with you??? I doubt it! Your mind is closed!
IF you can show me ANY Apsotle who was NOT either walking with jesus, alive at that time of his ministry, or else was visited by the risen Christ!
Still the same deal, N
NE in history has even met the qualifications since John died!Revelation 21:14 And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and in them the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.
In the New Jerusalem it doesn't say 20 or more; it says 12. Can you name them. Will you be one of these 12?
So you are saying that Jesus can not do what he did with Paul with anyone else?IF you can show me ANY Apsotle who was NOT either walking with jesus, alive at that time of his ministry, or else was visited by the risen Christ!
Still the same deal, N
You have yet to address Eph. 4??
Your rationalization concerning this topic reminds me of the J.W.'s way of reasoning. You know how they say that only 144,000 will actually enter into the Kingdom. So what will become of the rest of them?
As difficult as they have in answering that question, you have in this one. There are only 12 apostles. There names are written on the foundations of the 12 walls of the New Jerusalem.
In Acts chapter one, they prayed for guidance when they chose the TWELFTH Apostle, the one to take Judas Iscariot's place.
Throughout the gospels they are known as "The Twelve."
Matthew 10:2 Now the names of the twelve apostles are these; The first, Simon, who is called Peter, and Andrew his brother; James the son of Zebedee, and John his brother;
Matthew 10:5 These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:
Matthew 20:17 And Jesus going up to Jerusalem took the twelve disciples apart in the way, and said unto them,
Matthew 26:14 Then one of the twelve, called Judas Iscariot, went unto the chief priests,
Matthew 26:20 Now when the even was come, he sat down with the twelve.
Matthew 26:47 And while he yet spake, lo, Judas, one of the twelve, came, and with him a great multitude with swords and staves, from the chief priests and elders of the people.
Mark 4:10 And when he was alone, they that were about him with the twelve asked of him the parable.
Mark 6:7 And he called unto him the twelve, and began to send them forth by two and two; and gave them power over unclean spirits;
Mark 9:35 And he sat down, and called the twelve, and saith unto them, If any man desire to be first, the same shall be last of all, and servant of all.
Mark 10:32 And they were in the way going up to Jerusalem; and Jesus went before them: and they were amazed; and as they followed, they were afraid. And he took again the twelve, and began to tell them what things should happen unto him,
Mark 11:11 And Jesus entered into Jerusalem, and into the temple: and when he had looked round about upon all things, and now the eventide was come, he went out unto Bethany with the twelve.
Mark 14:17 And in the evening he cometh with the twelve.
Mark 14:20 And he answered and said unto them, It is one of the twelve, that dippeth with me in the dish.
Luke 8:1 And it came to pass afterward, that he went throughout every city and village, preaching and shewing the glad tidings of the kingdom of God: and the twelve were with him,
Luke 9:12 And when the day began to wear away, then came the twelve, and said unto him, Send the multitude away, that they may go into the towns and country round about, and lodge, and get victuals: for we are here in a desert place.
Luke 18:31 Then he took unto him the twelve, and said unto them, Behold, we go up to Jerusalem, and all things that are written by the prophets concerning the Son of man shall be accomplished.
Luke 22:3 Then entered Satan into Judas surnamed Iscariot, being of the number of the twelve.
John 6:67 Then said Jesus unto the twelve, Will ye also go away?
John 20:24 But Thomas, one of the twelve, called Didymus, was not with them when Jesus came.
Acts 6:2 Then the twelve called the multitude of the disciples unto them, and said, It is not reason that we should leave the word of God, and serve tables.
1 Corinthians 15:5 And that he was seen of Cephas, then of the twelve:
Revelation 21:14 And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and in them the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.
There are 12 apostles. I think the proof is here.
What do you mean "the rest"?
I posted over 20 verses that refer to "The Twelve." What are "the rest"?
There are "The Twelve," that is it. And that is why The Apostolic Age has ceased. The Twelve have died. And with them "The Gifts" have "died" as well (Heb.2:3,4).
Twelve are named in Matt. 10:2-3.
Barnabas and Paul are called apostles in Acts 14:14
Andronicus and Junia are noted among the apostles in Rom. 16:7.
Paul calls Silvanus and Timothy (and himself) apostles in 1 Thess. 1:1 ; 2:4-6.
Paul calls Apollus (and himself) an apostle in 1 Cor. 4:6-9.
I thought you were in to history? Does't history also tells us that there was a succession of apostles for many years, but someone got a better idea. Flesh-generated better ideas always make the church irrelevant. We need to stick to the pattern that God gave us in Eph. 4.
There was no succession of apostles. There are those who believe in apostolic succession. Generally speaking they are cults, or religions like the RCC. There is no apostolic succession.
Silvanus, Timothy and Barnabas and a few others are called apostles in the same way that every Christian should be.
Note carefully the word "apostle."
apostolos The word means "one who is sent." An apostle is one who is sent with a message, specifically the message of the gospel.
When the Latin Vulgate translation was made by Jerome he used the Latin word "mittere" for apostolos. Mittere is the Latin word from which we get our English word "missionary." A missionary is one who is sent with a message. That is what Paul was, and that is what every obedient Christian ought to be.
Just as there was in the NT, there were those who were named "missionaries" or "apostles" because they were in full time ministry, however every Christian is a missionary in the sense that the whole world is his mission field, and that every person he comes in contact is his neighbor to whom he has an obligation to witness.
There are only 12 Apostles.
It is not my theology. It is what the word means. They are called apostles simply because the word has a very general meaning. To be an "apostle" they had to be a witness of the resurrection. They had to "go in and out with Jesus, to accompany him." All of those men did not. Certainly not Timothy. Timothy was not even saved until after Paul was saved. He was a young man when Jesus rose from the dead, and Jesus would not have appeared to him. He did not fit the qualification of an apostle. Neither do you or any other person of this generation. Christ appeared to the 12. He appeared to 500 others. But it is the twelve that Paul specifically mentions. Paul was one exception. Jesus called him to be an apostle, and the apostles accepted him as an apostle. The Bible says that he was "as one born out of due time."
Otherwise every Christian ought to be an "apostle" in the sense of a "missionary" "one sent with the message of Christ, or else they are disobedient to the Great Commission.
What about Ephesian 4? This works against you.
Ephesians 4:11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
In the first century some were apostles. Those were the 12.
Some were prophet. They had the gift of prophecy.
Some were evangelists.
Some were pastors.
Some were teachers.
Today we don't have apostles or prophets. The office of apostle has been done away with and the gift of prophecy has ceased. The apostle Paul helped to establish this church, and others may have had some part in it as well.
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Jesus has NOT apointed as an Apsotle ANY since paul was, and none since John died!
Ephesians refers to the church would have those gifts to the body of he time was written, but since we now have the completed word of the Lord to us, God has NO needto have thsoe gifts iof Apsotles/prophets any more!
Really? And what scripture do you have to prove that?
Acts 1:22 Beginning from the baptism of John, unto that same day that he was taken up from us, must one be ordained to be a witness with us of his resurrection.
Where do you justify this in scripture? This is an assumption that supports your theology that miracles, tongues, the power of God, apostles, prophets, the gifts of the Spirit, the leading of God's Spirit, and many other things are no longer available to the church!
Eph. 4:11-13 says the apostles will be here until we all come to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God to a perfect man to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ.
Are we in unity of the faith?
Have we all come in the knowledge of the Son of God?
Are we all a perfect (totally complete and mature) man?
Have we come to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ?
All your theology sounds good taken out of context and with no understanding of the Scripture..but let's examine this verse and what it says in context...
"For we know in part, and we prophecy in part. But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away."
THe word perfect means complete. To say that it is the Bible is a false assumption! Paul is talking about the Church being joined to Christ in complete submission and maturity. Examine the rest of the verse as it is written in this paragraph and you will see how it speaks of maturity, not the completeion of the Bible.
To say we have reached the goal in context of this scriptures is to say that you know God just as well as God knows you. You just say what you are taught to say without really giving it any serious thought.
You can get rid of any part of the Bible by saying "THat was for the apostolic age." Or "Those scriptures are no longer valid in Acts."
If God sent the Holy Spirit on the Day of Pentecost to empower His church and we deny that power today...what is that saying?
Thomas Helwys
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In my studies, formal and informal, I researched most of the denominations and Christian movements, and I experienced personal contact and multiple worship experiences with them. I say the following not to be cruel but just as a fact of what I saw: There is no other group that I'm aware of which has as many mentally unstable people in it as the Charismatic movement does, ministers and members. It attracts them and is filled with them. It contains fraudsters and false prophets, money-changers, and counterfeit teachers, spiritually arrogant and spiritually schizophrenic. There are genuine Christians in this movement, but one must be discerning. And I do believe that there is a danger in parts of the movement. I have seen lives destroyed, souls greatly harmed.
If something or someone doesn't line up with scripture, it/he/she should be avoided like the plague. By their fruits......
If something or someone doesn't line up with scripture, it/he/she should be avoided like the plague. By their fruits......
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Their fruit? Love, Joy, Peace, longsuffering, gentleness,goodness, faith,meekness, temperance...
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