can One Be Charasmatic And NOT Be In Word of faith?

[Yeshua1]

Awaken, my brother ...

You and I are the only FULL GOSPEL people within a million miles of dis place.

Praise the Lord! ... He did not decide to cut the precious gospel in half and dilute much of its' power.

The FULL GOSPEL is still ... preachin' with His SWM confirming the Truth.

This PERFECT way of His has ceased in many places because of peoples' UNBELIEF.

But, this PERFECT way of His will really cease only when He returns!
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You mean that you teach signs/wonders/miracles as everyday experience, that we can always be healed, be prosperous, have those great signs ...

Do you hold to modern day apostles/prophets?

Are you into word of faith teachings?

 

[Yeshua1]

I thought there were more full gospel Baptist out there..I guess I was wrong.
I agree God did not dilute His power! He could do no miracles in His own hometown because of unbelief! Makes you wonder how the unbelief of the world today affects Him doing miracles today?????

We prefer to stay in the word of God, and not follow after the "revelations" of Apostles and prophets so called, and who wrongly divide word of God!

 

[awaken]

My belief rests on the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ--something that can be verified in history. They are facts. The Christian faith is an intelligent faith rooted and grounded on faith.
That is in contrast to the Muslim who believes that if he straps a bomb on himself, goes and blows himself up, he will then go straight to paradise. What is his basis for that belief? He has none. It is "blind faith." There is no evidence for his faith. Again, my faith is based on evidence; the evidence being the resurrection of Jesus Christ, whom I know was raised from the dead--over 500 witnesses to that event.

Here we go again! Bringing out the bad eggs to prove all of it is bad...Believing what the Word of God says about it is not blind faith! Muslims do not believe the Bible! Well...some christians do not believe it all either..

Now you say that the gifts of miracles, healings, languages, are all operative in your church. But you can't demonstrate it. It is blind belief just like the Muslim. You have as much credibility in your faith as a Muslim committing suicide and believing he is going to paradise or telling me that you believe monkeys inhabit the planet Pluto. You have no evidence for any of this. You can't perform a miracle, speak in another language, heal large groups of people (the GIFT of healing), etc, or prove that there are monkeys on Pluto. You don't have evidence. It is not a matter of my unbelief. It is a matter of your credibility.

No, not blind! The Holy Spirit has shed light to the truth! I would rather follow Him instead of someone that does not believe God is not doing it today!

Years ago Charles Taze Russel was taken to court on the charges of fraud. He was asked if he could read Greek, as he claimed. He said he could. He was given a Greek NT. He couldn't read it. And he was charged as guilty. This is the leader of the J.W.'s. He couldn't produce the evidence. You are just like Russell. You have been found guilty in the jury of public opinion. Guilty as charged; no evidence provided.

I do not have to prove anything to you! God is the only one I am concerned with!
Jesus could not do miracles in his own hometown...so I quess that town would say the same about him as well! ..but we both know Jesus/God could do them!

I take God at his Word; not your word. Where is your evidence?

You are taking you man-made theology over the Holy Spirit teaching you truth!

No it isn't. You have twisted so many scriptures together here, that 2Peter applies to you:

2 Peter 3:16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

Well, I see you struggling because you are trying to understand spiritual things with your carnal mind.

First, I said nothing about evangelizing.
Second, the Bible says nothing about praying in another language, especially privately. There is no such thing.

There you go again saying we can not pray in private! TONGUES IS ANOTHER LANGUAGE! PRAYING IN THE SPIRIT IS TONGUES. SPEAKING TO GOD IS PRAYING!

He listed the miraculous sign gifts for the Corinthian Church, not for you.

Again, DHK, I am truly sorry that you are not experiencing any of this in your ministry (I sincerely mean that)! But He was given to the church to manifest until His return!

As proof of that, that is if they were for you, you should be able to demonstrate them. Where are the signs and wonders, the mass healings? They aren't there. Your life is a life of hypocrisy. You say they are there but they aren't. If there were mass healings--broken bones, and all then you would be front page news. But that doesn't happen. These gifts have ceased, and you know it. There are no gift of miracles, gift of healings, gift of languages that go on today. You are deceived.

No, I was deceived! But not anymore! As I have said many time on this board...your unbelief and denial of what is plain in scriptures can not take away what I am experiencing with God!

Comfort zone?? You don't know where I go and what I do. I wouldn't call it a comfort zone if I were you. I don't think you know what true Biblical Christianity is, or at least walking by faith.

Comfort zone is where man is in control!

You enjoy emotional experiences. You don't see miracles.

Then pray. But praying in gibberish is not praying in tongues/languages. What you pray in not even God can understand. It is just a waste of time.

I did not call tongues gibberish! I called it speaking in a language that the person does not know or understand without the interpretation. God does not say tongues is a waste of time!

Yes, I don't believe monkeys live on Pluto like you do. But, hey, you can believe anything you want to and not have any evidence to back it up. Keep on going that direction and someday you might end up in jail. It is called fraud.

I just need the Word of God to say it to believe it! You on the other hand have to have proof!

 

[awaken]

To seek Jesus, not the Gifts is what my Bible states, does yours?

I agree that we are to seek Jesus! He is the Word made flesh! In His Word He says to desire spiritual gifts!

 

[Yeshua1]

Here we go again! Bringing out the bad eggs to prove all of it is bad...Believing what the Word of God says about it is not blind faith! Muslims do not believe the Bible! Well...some christians do not believe it all either..

No, not blind! The Holy Spirit has shed light to the truth! I would rather follow Him instead of someone that does not believe God is not doing it today!


I do not have to prove anything to you! God is the only one I am concerned with!
Jesus could not do miracles in his own hometown...so I quess that town would say the same about him as well! ..but we both know Jesus/God could do them!

You are taking you man-made theology over the Holy Spirit teaching you truth!


Well, I see you struggling because you are trying to understand spiritual things with your carnal mind.

There you go again saying we can not pray in private! TONGUES IS ANOTHER LANGUAGE! PRAYING IN THE SPIRIT IS TONGUES. SPEAKING TO GOD IS PRAYING!

Again, DHK, I am truly sorry that you are not experiencing any of this in your ministry (I sincerely mean that)! But He was given to the church to manifest until His return!
No, I was deceived! But not anymore! As I have said many time on this board...your unbelief and denial of what is plain in scriptures can not take away what I am experiencing with God!

Comfort zone is where man is in control!

I did not call tongues gibberish! I called it speaking in a language that the person does not know or understand without the interpretation. God does not say tongues is a waste of time!

I just need the Word of God to say it to believe it! You on the other hand have to have proof!

you MUST learn to interprete the Bible in contex/historically/in the Grammar etc, or else you will end up claiming things that were NOT promised to us to have today!

We are promised ALL spiritual blessings in christ, but NO verse states that we are promised healings/signs wonders etc, you can look for them in the NT, but once rightly understood, will not find those promises to us today!

ALL is revelation inspired of god in the bible, but not ALL to us as direct promises, as God works in different ways in different times and ages with man!

 

[awaken]

And you claim you get your view of tongues from the NT. Overlooked something, there, didn't you?

Look, I have said repeatedly that I am not a cessationist. But in all my study and experiences with the Charismatics, I know of only two instances where I considered tongues-talk real and used Biblically, two out of hundreds, maybe more, of hearing and seeing this "gift".

So, I am between DHK and you on this, but closer to DHK.

The Charismatic movement is rife with fraud and fraudsters, mentally unstable people, counterfeit signs and gifts, delusional people, people with low self-esteem who want to be seen and heard, spiritual schizophrenics, arrogance, false teachings, false prophets and "profits".

I have never said there were not false out there! Just dont throw away the real!
NO, I did not over look anything that I am aware! I have been studing this for about 6 years!

 

[awaken]

you MUST learn to interprete the Bible in contex/historically/in the Grammar etc, or else you will end up claiming things that were NOT promised to us to have today!

We are promised ALL spiritual blessings in christ, but NO verse states that we are promised healings/signs wonders etc, you can look for them in the NT, but once rightly understood, will not find those promises to us today!

ALL is revelation inspired of god in the bible, but not ALL to us as direct promises, as God works in different ways in different times and ages with man!

I understand what is mine in the New Covenant! I know who I am in Christ!
I am no dummy! I know not all of it applies to us! I ALSO KNOW WHAT PARTS DO!
Yeshua, We are the church that He set up! We are to carry out what they started!

 

[awaken]

We prefer to stay in the word of God, and not follow after the "revelations" of Apostles and prophets so called, and who wrongly divide word of God!

I have given scripture with every one of my beliefs! You on the other hand have yet to give scritures proving they ceased! I do not follow after anyone but Christ, His Word, His Spiritual insight!

 

[Revmitchell]

Yeshua, We are the church that He set up! We are to carry out what they started!

Agreed, but that does not automatically mean that it justifies your version of the move of the HG.

 

[awaken]

Agreed, but that does not automatically mean that it justifies your version of the move of the HG.

Not my version! THe Bible is plain! You guys just want to explain it away because you yourselves are not to experiencing it!

I have been on the other side of this! I have debated with everything you guys have! But in doing so...I had to ignores certain scriptures that contradicted that belief! Well, I have chosen not to ignore them! I repented of my unbelief! I now believe and have experienced what you and others say does not exist!

 

[Revmitchell]

Not my version! THe Bible is plain! You guys just want to explain it away because you yourselves are to experiencing it!

I have been on the other side of this! I have debated with everything you guys have! But in doing so...I had to ignores certain scriptures that contradicted that belief! Well, I have chosen not to ignore them! I repented of my unbelief! I now believe and have experienced what you and others say does not exist!

Oh I have not ignored anything. And once again I am not a cessationist. I just reject your idea of what the nature of the gifts are. It is nothing more than selfish, flesh satisfying mockery of the worship of God.And it is an abomination.

 

[awaken]

Oh I have not ignored anything. And once again I am not a cessationist. I just reject your idea of what the nature of the gifts are. It is nothing more than selfish, flesh satisfying mockery of the worship of God.And it is an abomination.

Really! And your opinion is suppose to change the truth in scripture?
Every thread that I am on that you respond...Not one of them have been backed up with scripture! Not one time have you addressed my post with anything other than just your opinion.

 

[Revmitchell]

Really! And your opinion is suppose to change the truth in scripture?
Every thread that I am on that you respond...Not one of them have been backed up with scripture! Not one time have you addressed my post with anything other than just your opinion.

First that is false. Second you do not really give me much to respond to. For instance I showed you that in 1 Cor 14:22 that tongues are a sign to unbelievers. I have also pointed out that on the day of Pentecost the tongues were used to share the gospel. You and I have had these conversations. So now you have in fact lied. I will leave you to your misery.

 

[awaken]

First that is false. Second you do not really give me much to respond to. For instance I showed you that in 1 Cor 14:22 that tongues are a sign to unbelievers. I have also pointed out that on the day of Pentecost the tongues were used to share the gospel. You and I have had these conversations. So now you have in fact lied. I will leave you to your misery.

The last 5-10 responses to anything I have posted have been your opinion..no scriptures!
They were not used to share the gospel. Peter shared the gospel! They were magnifying God!

I also showed how tongues were a sign to the unbelievers! But that is not the only reason for tongues!

 

[Revmitchell]

The last 5-10 responses to anything I have posted have been your opinion..no scriptures!
They were not used to share the gospel. Peter shared the gospel! They were magnifying God!

I also showed how tongues were a sign to the unbelievers! But that is not the only reason for tongues!

Every thread that I am on that you respond...Not one of them have been backed up with scripture! Not one time have you addressed my post with anything other than just your opinion.

I have proven this false and you have no admitted it. You lied. Now go your way and behave.

 

[awaken]

I have proven this false and you have no admitted it. You lied. Now go your way and behave.

You like others here have addressed few scriptures while ignoring others!

 

[Thomas Helwys]

I have never said there were not false out there! Just dont throw away the real!
NO, I did not over look anything that I am aware! I have been studing this for about 6 years!

"The real" is very difficult to find in the Charismatic movement, which is filled with frauds and, to be blunt, nutcases.

 

[awaken]

"The real" is very difficult to find in the Charismatic movement, which is filled with frauds and, to be blunt, nutcases.

Well I am not in a charismatic movement! Unless believing that the manifestation of the Holy Spirit is for today considers me one! I am still in a Baptist church that believes this!

 

[awaken]

"The real" is very difficult to find in the Charismatic movement, which is filled with frauds and, to be blunt, nutcases.

On another note to this...
THese manifestations must be coming from somewhere. Some are the persons own emotional response..some may be demonic...some may be imitating others...But we could be seeing a genuine work of the Holy Spirit.

We can not always know. As humans we can not always discern the spiritual condition of one anothers hearts.

Why would Satan counterfeit these experiences? Counterfeiters always make copies of something valuable! Satan loves to counterfeit true biblicl experiences in order to descredit the work of God. 2 Cor. 11:14 warns us, "Satan himself transforms himself into an angel of light."

Even though we cannot know for sure, we can test the manifestations in other ways!

 

[evangelist-7]

the Bible NEVER commands us to be seeking the Baptism in the Holy Ghost, for that act happened to ALL of us when we got saved, partaking of same Sprit and indwelt by Him!
JUST commanded to be continually refilled by Him only!
And MY bible says the Holy Spirit is sovereign to who gets what gifts, that he decides which to grant us, does your Bible say that?
To seek Jesus, not the Gifts is what my Bible states, does yours?

Truly, I can't be bothered anymore ... it's a total waste of time.
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