can One Be Charasmatic And NOT Be In Word of faith?

[evangelist-7]

Yeshua, please don't forget post #8 ... we would like some explanations. Thanks.
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[Matt Black]

Thank you.

I have not seen anyone who has not addressed the OP.

I have and also I believe DHK has.

 

[Yeshua1]

I think so. I have had some limited fellowship with some Pentecostal pastors and some AOG pastors in the past, both of whom preached the gospel. I believe they were saved, but confused on tongues and a "second blessing."
But the "Oneness Pentecostal," or "Jesus only," are heretical preaching a works salvation. They teach that one must speak in tongues in order to be saved.

the AoG offical statement does have the Gospel , written in Arminian theology terms, and their "distinctives" regarding the Holy spirit and "gifts/second baptism" do NOT make them teaching another Gospel, just adding manmade non essentials into the mix!

On the other hand...

Charasmatics such as jesus only, Kingdom now, word of faith etc teach not only bad doctrines, they have a different and false jesus/Gospel!

That is difference between those two groups!

 

[Yeshua1]

Yeshua, please don't forget post #8 ... we would like some explanations. Thanks.
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Already answered, #20!

 

[evangelist-7]

looking back now, can say with certainity twice the Lord gave me "something" to say to another person,
but both were very unusual cimstances, and both times things happened as per the message that was given forth...

other times I can honestly see were just emotionalism, getting carried away,
due to the expectations/mentaility of the church culture etc..

I do not say that the Holy spirit can NEVER do something that would be unusual to us, but that those are isolated
and rare cases, such as real miracles, healings etc, those are up to sovereign God to do as he deems the time,
but almost ALL of the time he works and opertes within the confins of the written word of God to us today!

These true movements of the Spirit have been happening all over the world on a daily basis,
but just not in your living room.

Many deceived and emotional Christians in many deceived churches do not cancel out da blue.

This is your opinion, and IMO you are playing God ... telling people what God can and cannot do!
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[Yeshua1]

These true movements of the Spirit have been happening all over the world on a daily basis,
but just not in your living room.

Many deceived and emotional Christians in many deceived churches do not cancel out da blue.

This is your opinion, and IMO you are playing God ... telling people what God can and cannot do!
.

We know that Also, by definition, Gods acts/deeds such as miracles/healings etc are His to do as He sovereignly wills, and our God can do whatever He chooses too, but the problem is that much of modern day 'experiences/doctrines" within current charasma are either demonic or self produced!

Especially in the groups such as claim it, power of the tongues, word of faith, who see that their faith/words make God out as a genie, that He must obey His own 'spiritual laws!"

 

[evangelist-7]

We know that Also, by definition, Gods acts/deeds such as miracles/healings etc are His to do as He sovereignly wills, and our God can do whatever He chooses too, but the problem is that much of modern day 'experiences/doctrines" within current charasma are either demonic or self produced!
Especially in the groups such as claim it, power of the tongues, word of faith, who see that their faith/words make God out as a genie, that He must obey His own 'spiritual laws!"

Yes, of course, and this is your thread and you ARE addressing the OP.

But, I, on the other hand, am only interested in (and interested in showing) that God never stopped doing His SWM,
and never stopped preferring that His SWM be used in accompanying Jesus' precious gospel message to CONFIRM it.
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[DHK]

These true movements of the Spirit have been happening all over the world on a daily basis,
but just not in your living room.

"The Lord gave me something," "The Lord said to me," "I saw in a vision," "God said to me in a dream," etc., etc. This is not God speaking but perhaps another spirit speaking or just self speaking imagination, but not God. God speaks through His Word. The canon of revelation is closed. If revelation were open, and this were true, then you would be duty bound to go to every Charismatic who has any one of these "little revelations" and ask them what it was so you could record it and then add it to the volume of Scripture that we already have. (Of course there is a warning about adding to the Word of God already given in the last chapter of Revelation).

And all this added revelation would come from all different theological viewpoints, most who don't care about doctrine, but rather on experience. Many of them would be complete heresy. And you would add them to your "Charismatic Book of God's Revelation" to mankind.
Isn't that hilarious? But the fact is that God has already spoken in his word. And we have it today--the completed Word of God. We don't need extra revelation. We are commanded to "contend for the faith once delivered to the saints." It has already been delivered. We contend for that which we already have--66 books of Scripture.

Many deceived and emotional Christians in many deceived churches do not cancel out da blue.

People who speak in tongues and seek after other "experiences" generally run their lives on their emotions. We are to gauge our lives by the Word of God. It is our standard; not our emotions. It is not "what I feel like," but rather, what does God, according to His Word, expect of me?

This is your opinion, and IMO you are playing God ... telling people what God can and cannot do!

.

Here is what cannot do:
He cannot lie.
He cannot go against his nature.
He cannot go against his own promises.
He cannot go against his written Word.

It is God that has told us what he does and cannot do.
You have the wrong perspective of God.
He is not a genie in a bottle that you can put in your pocket and pull out at any time for your own selfish purposes. You have a selfish view of God.

 

[awaken]

Just a note to the above post...In His written Word, He speaks of visions/dreams in Acts 2:17-18. He also speaks in the Old and New Testament to His people through dreams in visions!
We are in the last days! So who are you to say that dreams and visions have ceased when he said they have not!

 

[Yeshua1]

Just a note to the above post...In His written Word, He speaks of visions/dreams in Acts 2:17-18. He also speaks in the Old and New Testament to His people through dreams in visions!
We are in the last days! So who are you to say that dreams and visions have ceased when he said they have not!

Peter referenced all of that to being fulfilled at the time of pentacost, and in the early stages of the church in Acts! Quoted Joel, and applied it toHis own time and setting!

The digns and wonders confirmed that Jesus was the promised Messiah, the tongues were in alignment with isaiah being fulfilled, and the Spirit indeed had Gifts in operation in Acts, but once canon was completed, no more need for such on a routine basis now!

Again, the Lord still can chose to heal/prosper/miracles, but up to HIM, NOT us, and are NOT to be the normal mode of operations, for now we walk by faith, not by sight!

 

[DHK]

Just a note to the above post...In His written Word, He speaks of visions/dreams in Acts 2:17-18. He also speaks in the Old and New Testament to His people through dreams in visions!
We are in the last days! So who are you to say that dreams and visions have ceased when he said they have not!

Hebrews 1:1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

If you understand the above passage correctly He did stop speaking in visions, etc.
He speaks through His Son. His Son is revealed to us through His Word.
The author is making a contrast, not redundantly repeating himself.

 

[evangelist-7]

Just a note to the above post...In His written Word, He speaks of visions/dreams in Acts 2:17-18.
He also speaks in the Old and New Testament to His people through dreams in visions!
We are in the last days!
So who are you to say that dreams and visions have ceased when he said they have not!

Who is he? ...
He is one who is deceived by 1900 years of a false doctrine of the man-led churches.

These doctrines are the result of:
-- Satan's lies and deceptions
-- man having his own fleshly, unspiritual agenda
-- man having an inherited sin nature

These are an extremely potent combo to fight against God.
I know, I know ... Satan cannot PREVAIL against da choich ... it's still here, ain't it?

I really am growing rather tired of spiritual morons in general.
The Spirit cannot help those who are NOT open to the Truth.
Instead, they prefer to stay filled with error and UNBELIEF.
They are deceived into listening to Satan instead of the Spirit of God.
IMO, the salvation of some of them is in question ... do they have the Holy Spirit?
.

 

[Yeshua1]

Hebrews 1:1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

If you understand the above passage correctly He did stop speaking in visions, etc.
He speaks through His Son. His Son is revealed to us through His Word.
The author is making a contrast, not redundantly repeating himself.

Also, the author of hebrews stated:
how shall we escape if we neglect so great a salvation, which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed to us by those who heard Him, 4 God also bearing witness both with signs and wonders, with various miracles, and gifts of the Holy Spirit, according to His own will?

That the Holy Spirit sis all those signs/wonder to confirm Jesus as Lord, and that was already done?

 

[DHK]

Who is he? ...
He is one who is deceived by 1900 years of a false doctrine of the man-led churches.

These doctrines are the result of:
-- Satan's lies and deceptions
-- man having his own fleshly, unspiritual agenda
-- man having an inherited sin nature.

Oh that is precious! :laugh:

1900 years of history. 1900 years of the world's greatest missionary movements, revivals, evangelistic movements, and evagelist-7 thinks he has it all!
Have you ever seen such arrogance.

Have you ever considered just one example?
William Carey is considered the father of our modern day missionary movement, and BTW he was a Calvinist and believed in the depravity of man. In his humble beginnings as a shoe cobbler he had an earnest desire for the lost and the Lord put on his heart missions, and then directed him to India. There he established Serampore Bible College and translated the Bible or portions thereof into 44 different languages. His graduates have won thousands to the Lord, and have established hundreds of churches, who in turn have won and discipled many more believers.

And what has evangelist done for the Lord in comparison.
Precious little!

 

[evangelist-7]

Peter referenced all of that to being fulfilled at the time of pentacost, and in the early stages of the church in Acts! Quoted Joel, and applied it toHis own time and setting! The digns and wonders confirmed that Jesus was the promised Messiah, the tongues were in alignment with isaiah being fulfilled, and the Spirit indeed had Gifts in operation in Acts, but once canon was completed, no more need for such on a routine basis now!
Again, the Lord still can chose to heal/prosper/miracles, but up to HIM, NOT us,
and are NOT to be the normal mode of operations, for now we walk by faith, not by sight!

What an absolute pile of GARBAGE the above is.

Awaken, I just wish to warn you! ... I've explained all of this to them before!

God often gives double prophecies, meanings, etc. to things.
And this can easily be the case with Joel 2 and Acts 2.

The church in general is coming more and more to see that 1 Cor 13:10 has been drastically misused.
But, not to the enemies of God ... they choose to continue to fight against what has been shown to them.

All deeper spiritual Truth must be revealed by the Spirit of God!
Historically, man has always been a spiritual idiot.
Thus, his only way to know spiritual Truth is directly from God Himself.

Read the word all you want ... Jews do, Muslims do, atheists do, and many etc.
AND THEY DON'T HAVE THE FIRST CLUE WHAT THE WORD IS TEACHING!
.

 

[Yeshua1]

What an absolute pile of GARBAGE the above is.

Awaken, I just wish to warn you! ... I've explained all of this to them before!

God often gives double prophecies, meanings, etc. to things.
And this can easily be the case with Joel 2 and Acts 2.

The church in general is coming more and more to see that 1 Cor 13:10 has been drastically misused.
But, not to the enemies of God ... they choose to continue to fight against what has been shown to them.

All deeper spiritual Truth must be revealed by the Spirit of God!
Historically, man has always been a spiritual idiot.
Thus, his only way to know spiritual Truth is directly from God Himself.

Read the word all you want ... Jews do, Muslims do, atheists do, and many etc.
AND THEY DON'T HAVE THE FIRST CLUE WHAT THE WORD IS TEACHING!
.

So you would see the truth of there being a closed canon "garbage?"

That makes sense, as you must hold to ongoing/continuing revelations from God...

So are there modern Apostles/prophets giving forth additional truths to us today?

Are ther those gifts with powers to heal/do miracles SAME as the Apsotles of christ/

just where are a ll these 'super siants?"

Are you a believr in the "latter day rain/maifest sons of god?"

I stand on the firmn foundation of Christ/Bible, how about you?

 

[evangelist-7]

Oh that is precious! :laugh:
1900 years of history. 1900 years of the world's greatest missionary movements, revivals, evangelistic movements, and evagelist-7 thinks he has it all!
Have you ever seen such arrogance.

I said "a (i.e. one) false doctrine" ... not all of the church's doctrines!

Awaken, see what you're dealing with here?
.

 

[evangelist-7]

I stand on the firmn foundation of Christ/Bible, how about you?

You do not have a very firm foundation at all because of ...
http://www.baptistboard.com/showthread.php?t=84761

In several cases, you have NO idea which set of verses are actually true.
.

 

[Yeshua1]

I said "a (i.e. one) false doctrine" ... not all of the church's doctrines!

Awaken, see what you're dealing with here?
.

You dealing with Christians who prefe to stand on the sure foundation of the Bible, than upon experiences and "revelations" from false Apsotles and prophets in modern day Charasmatic movement!

 

[Thomas Helwys]

Who is he? ...
He is one who is deceived by 1900 years of a false doctrine of the man-led churches.

These doctrines are the result of:
-- Satan's lies and deceptions
-- man having his own fleshly, unspiritual agenda
-- man having an inherited sin nature

These are an extremely potent combo to fight against God.
I know, I know ... Satan cannot PREVAIL against da choich ... it's still here, ain't it?

I really am growing rather tired of spiritual morons in general.
The Spirit cannot help those who are NOT open to the Truth.
Instead, they prefer to stay filled with error and UNBELIEF.
They are deceived into listening to Satan instead of the Spirit of God.
IMO, the salvation of some of them is in question ... do they have the Holy Spirit?
.

You might want to finish the sixth grade before you start calling anyone a moron and questioning someone's salvation.