Can Satan be saved?

[J.D.]

Allan, I appreciate you effort to bring scripture to the fore in the discussion. However, I must respectfully say that your ideas were based more on conjecture than on scriptural exegesis. Rebellion is rebellion and both Adam and Satan committed it.

The questions I posed as a skeptic were not made up. They were questions that I’ve fielded over the years.

Let me complete my thoughts and make my point:

Question: Can God save Satan if He wanted to?
Answer: Yes

Question: Then why doesn’t he just do that?
Answer: Because He doesn't want to. God has chosen to display His Power on Satan

Question: What if Satan repented and believed?
Answer: Satan can not repent and believe. His “fate” is sealed.

Question: Does Satan have the free will to believe?
Answer: No. He can not choose to repent and believe because that would contradict his nature. Also, God from the very beginning determined that Satan would be the means of evil in the world, into which God’s righteousness would shine. So Satan can not repent and believe because it is against his nature, and it is against God’s predetermined plan for him.

Q: Then how can he be blamed?
A: Because Satan was created as a vessel of wrath. His deeds reveal his nature, and he will be punished for his deeds. God, being God, has the right to do that.

Q: Could God have “elected” Satan just as he “elected” the other angels? Could the blood of Christ have been appropriated to angels?
A: Theoretically, yes, because God was under no obligation to accept any conditions set down by angels or men, either for their justification or condemnation.

Q: Is it fair for God to elect some but not others?
A: Yes. God is fair in executing the wrath for which Satan was created.

Q: Isn’t God’s judgment too harsh, seeing that Hell will be everlasting torment? What if Satan repents after being cast into the fire?
A: Satan’s everlasting torment will be justified because he never ceases from his rebellion against God. He will blaspheme God forever, even more in the fire.

Now my question for sentimental theologians is this: If God is righteous and holy and just in His condemnation of Satan, how is He any less Just and Holy if He chooses to condemn men, who, like Satan, He has prepared for destruction, having the spirit of rebellion in their hearts, from which they shall never repent?

 

[webdog]

Now my question for sentimental theologians is this: If God is righteous and holy and just in His condemnation of Satan, how is He any less Just and Holy if He chooses to condemn men, who, like Satan, He has prepared for destruction, having the spirit of rebellion in their hearts, from which they shall never repent?

You need to define "justice". If God outlines in His Word what justice is...and does contrary to that, He would not be just. Calvinism does just that.

 

[psalms109:31]

Satan

We all are satan, we breath him every day for he is the prince of the air.

Even Peter was called Satan.

Satan cannot be saved, but Jesus can save us from satan

Satan hebrew "accuse"]

 

[MB]

Now my question for sentimental theologians is this: If God is righteous and holy and just in His condemnation of Satan, how is He any less Just and Holy if He chooses to condemn men, who, like Satan, He has prepared for destruction, having the spirit of rebellion in their hearts, from which they shall never repent?

Your assuming they won't repent you don't know for a fact that they won't. We are all vessles of wrath until the point of Salvation. Salvation changes our destiny. God may not change but, we do, when we are saved.
MB

 

[J.D.]

Your assuming they won't repent you don't know for a fact that they won't. We are all vessles of wrath until the point of Salvation. Salvation changes our destiny. God may not change but, we do, when we are saved.
MB

I know, from scripture, that some part of men and angels will not repent in this life nor in Hell. They are haters of God and there's nothing about Hell that will convince them to Love God. But since all have sinned and come short, wouldn't God be justified in sending all of mankind to Hell, without an opportunity to be saved, in the same way He condemns evil angels, not providing them a way of salvation?

 

[Martin]

The bible says "the devils believe and tremble". Does this mean they can be saved?

(rhetorical question - setting up a discussion)

==No. The Devil is predestined to hell (Rev 20:10). He will not repent and God has provided, so far as we know, no way for the devil to be saved.

 

[TCGreek]

I agree with your statements but I'm going to play the role of a skeptic for a while to make my point.

Skeptic says: When you say their fate is sealed, do you mean that they have no opportunity or chance to be saved whatsoever? How is that fair?

While their is life, there is hope for even the Bertrand Russells of this world. Neither should the skeptics speak like that.

Neither would I say that a skeptic have no opportunity to be saved. God decides that (1 Cor 3:6). Besides, the skeptic is not on the same level as the devil and his minions. Lee Strobel is a great example of a skeptic who came to faith in Jesus Christ as his Savior and Lord.

 

[Allan]

However, I must respectfully say that your ideas were based more on conjecture than on scriptural exegesis.
There was no exegesis given J.D. I stated the 'principle' is applicable to angels as well. The 'conjecture' as you call it, is biblical fact that a person who is saved - IF they should fall away - Can NEVER be saved again. That my friend is straight forward fact and basis of the principle set forth.

The questions I posed as a skeptic were not made up. They were questions that I’ve fielded over the years.

What a coinsidence, me too :laugh:

Let me complete my thoughts and make my point:

Question: Can God save Satan if He wanted to?
Answer: Yes

Actaully, no He can not. He already as set forth the standard by which all things operate, including eternal salvation and damnation. God can not go against Himself nor change His mind. Therefore based on His decree it is UNCHANGABLE. You begin with a faulty logic.

Question: Then why doesn’t he just do that?
Answer: Because He doesn't want to. God has chosen to display His Power on Satan

This is somewhat accurate but I will state it this way. "because He didn't choose to." Why didn't He? Go back to the principle I gave concerning that which is savable and that which can not be saved.

Question: What if Satan repented and believed?
Answer: Satan can not repent and believe. His “fate” is sealed.

It is not that Satan can not, but that he WILL NOT. Yes his fate was sealed (back to the principle I gave)

Question: Does Satan have the free will to believe?
Answer: No. He can not choose to repent and believe because that would contradict his nature. Also, God from the very beginning determined that Satan would be the means of evil in the world, into which God’s righteousness would shine. So Satan can not repent and believe because it is against his nature, and it is against God’s predetermined plan for him.

Yes Satan did have the freedom to choose but not BELIEVE. You are trying to ascribe to him faith of some type but faith is having NOT SEEN and yet holding to it as though you did. Satan SAW and therefore faith was not needed but the choice of obedient submission.

Q: Then how can he be blamed?
A: Because Satan was created as a vessel of wrath. His deeds reveal his nature, and he will be punished for his deeds. God, being God, has the right to do that.

Now you are bringing presuposition into text. Yes he was created as a vessel of wrath (God knowing that in creating him, he would have to judge his rebelliousness - NOT - God created him for the purpose of judgment). If that was his nature, He would not have served God for ONE SECOND. But we see that he did serve God and that at some point he became prideful afterward. Yes, God being God has a right to judge all unrighteousness we choose in direct oposition to truth and righteousness.

Q: Could God have “elected” Satan just as he “elected” the other angels? Could the blood of Christ have been appropriated to angels?
A: Theoretically, yes, because God was under no obligation to accept any conditions set down by angels or men, either for their justification or condemnation.

Lets keep to scripture and not conjecture. God could have made men gods as well and angels, fairies but He didn't

Q: Is it fair for God to elect some but not others?
A: Yes. God is fair in executing the wrath for which Satan was created.

There you go with fair? In what sense are you using it?
Your veiw of election is what is in question here, not that God elected.

Q: Isn’t God’s judgment too harsh, seeing that Hell will be everlasting torment? What if Satan repents after being cast into the fire?
A: Satan’s everlasting torment will be justified because he never ceases from his rebellion against God. He will blaspheme God forever, even more in the fire.

Already answered that.

Now my question for sentimental theologians is this: If God is righteous and holy and just in His condemnation of Satan, how is He any less Just and Holy if He chooses to condemn men, who, like Satan, He has prepared for destruction, having the spirit of rebellion in their hearts, from which they shall never repent?

Who said He is less Just, Holy, and Righteous to judge anyone who chooses rebellion to the condemnation God foreknew they would be appointed in due time?

 

[J.D.]

Quote:
Let me complete my thoughts and make my point:

Question: Can God save Satan if He wanted to?
Answer: Yes

Actaully, no He can not. He already as set forth the standard by which all things operate, including eternal salvation and damnation. God can not go against Himself nor change His mind. Therefore based on His decree it is UNCHANGABLE. You begin with a faulty logic.

If the question was "Can God save Satan?", then the answer is no, because He can not do something He has decreed not to do. But the question was "Can God save Satan IF HE WANTS TO?" The answer is yes, if God "wants" (decreed) to, He could.

Go back to the principle I gave concerning that which is savable and that which can not be saved.

Not sure which principle you speak of. At any rate, I would separate that which is savable from that which can not be saved by discovering who has saving ability (save-able). Who has the ability to save, man or God? What makes anyone save-able depends on whether God has chosen to save them.

It is not that Satan can not, but that he WILL NOT.

He CAN not be saved precisely because he WILL not be saved. But if God were to change him, and Satan became WILLING, then he COULD be saved. True?

Who said He is less Just, Holy, and Righteous to judge anyone who chooses rebellion to the condemnation God foreknew they would be appointed in due time?

No one on this thread said that unles I missed it. You have introduced the idea of foreknowledge here.

God knowing that in creating him, he would have to judge his rebelliousness

So God was obligated to accept the conditions set down by Satan? God is not free to save whom He will?

Yes Satan did have the freedom to choose

My question is does Satan have, NOW, a free will?

 

[UnchartedSpirit]

My question is does Satan have, NOW, a free will?

I ANSWERED THAT ALREADY!

Anyway, don't forget that satan was created soley for the purpose of service and was already an eternal creature...he is not the same spiritually or physically as we are and can not have the same relationship that God has with us...he was made for another purpose which he chose to go against, and then when he lost takes it out on us!

 

[Martin]

My question is does Satan have, NOW, a free will?

==I would answer that question in the negative. Satan is a slave to sin and evil. Besides can you show me even one Scripture that teaches any created being has freewill? Off the top of my head I can't think of even one. However I can think of several that say that God has freewill.

 

[UnchartedSpirit]

um, Off-topic Martin. Just because the Bible authors didn't invent the termonology of "free will" doesn't mean God couldn't teach it to them. Charles Swindoll just today claimed that the Bible doesn't mention anything about "confrotations" but contains a ton of teachings about it. God could never prove that he made us in His "image" without giving us free will, in fact he would be lying if he tried anyway.

 

[Martin]

um, Off-topic Martin.

==No, not off topic. JD asked the question and I gave my answer.

Just because the Bible authors didn't invent the termonology of "free will" doesn't mean God couldn't teach it to them.

==Not only is the term not used, the concept is not even taught. Slaves are not free.

God could never prove that he made us in His "image" without giving us free will, in fact he would be lying if he tried anyway.

==There is an event in history called the fall which corrupted the image of God in man. That is why there is evil in this world. All lost men are slaves to sin (Rom 6:6,16, 8:5-8). It would be my understanding that Satan, and the demons, are in a simular (but worse) condition. I say worse because the Bible gives NO indication that they even could be saved. Man fell and God has provided a way of salvation. Angels fell and there seems to be no offer of salvation made to them. Therefore man can be freed from his slavery to sin, fallen angels cannot.

 

[UnchartedSpirit]

Yes, but Paul emphatically, in fact intensively preaches that Christ offers believers the freedom to choose between good or evil throughout their lifetime before their death & resurrection...Until then Christ gives us the option to serve Him or not...that sounds a lot like free will to me...sinners have just as much freedom to choose as we have...they may never be able to justify their actions without God, but they still can act on their own accord. They are slaves, if anything, to themselves.

 

[Allan]

If the question was "Can God save Satan?", then the answer is no, because He can not do something He has decreed not to do. But the question was "Can God save Satan IF HE WANTS TO?" The answer is yes, if God "wants" (decreed) to, He could.

Again the answer is an emphatic, No!
If God decreed NOW that He has determinded to save Satan, then He would have to violate His decrees ALREADY set forth and thereby CHANGE His Mind, His Word, His Purpose, His Plan, and His decrees. It violates the very nature of God and therefore is not even a hypothetical.

Could God have made a way to save them, Yes.
Can God save Satan NOW? No, He can not. Just as God can not lie which is against charactor/nature, neither can change His mind or alter in any sense His decreed Purposes and Plan.

Not sure which principle you speak of. At any rate, I would separate that which is savable from that which can not be saved by discovering who has saving ability (save-able). Who has the ability to save, man or God? What makes anyone save-able depends on whether God has chosen to save them.

The priniciple I set first in my first posting about once God is truly and fully revealed and in His presense of Glory (whether spiritually or actually), if one fall away they can not come back. Of a truth they will not desire to come back because knowing God and His glory and the judgment of things to come... those who rebel IN KNOWING these things have strengently set themselves against all that is of God.

He CAN not be saved precisely because he WILL not be saved. But if God were to change him, and Satan became WILLING, then he COULD be saved. True?

Again, an emphatic No.
You are trying to postulate something as hypothetical. But it can only be hypothetical if there is a chance it COULD or MIGHT happen. There is NONE. As I said earlier - God could make angels into fairies but that WILL NOT and CAN NOT happen because it is against those things which God has already set forth. God would have to change in order accomadate your opinion. And IMO - that will never, can never happen. IF you ask is it possible that God COULD have done this (in the beginning) I will answer yes. But can He do it now, it is without question a No.

No one on this thread said that unles I missed it. You have introduced the idea of foreknowledge here.

It is by His knowledge all things are and are done - is it not?
Or
Does God do things on a whim?

So God was obligated to accept the conditions set down by Satan? God is not free to save whom He will?

No, your not listening. God set forth the condition,. therefore God obligates Himself to continue His purpose and plan as it is according to His good pleasure.
God determined whom He will save and Why and How.
And God determined those who will not be saved and why and how.
God alone saves, God alone condemns, but God decreed man is resposible.

My question is does Satan have, NOW, a free will?

You need to define FREE. Libertarian? Limited?
I believe,yes, Satan (like man) has a limited freedom of the will even NOW.
I actaully use the term 'resposiblity of choice'. That men are resposible for and to the truths Gods reveals to them.
Either belief of the truth unto Life Eternal
or
Rejection of that truth unto damnation.

 

[Allan]

You need to define FREE. Libertarian? Limited?
I believe,yes, Satan (like man) has a limited freedom of the will even NOW.
I actaully use the term 'resposiblity of choice'. That men are resposible for and to the truths Gods reveals to them.
Either belief of the truth unto Life Eternal
or
Rejection of that truth unto damnation.

Let me clarify my statement, if I may.

You need to define FREE. Libertarian? Limited?
I believe,yes, Satan (like man) has a limited freedom of the will even NOW.

In speaking on the issue of men, I actaully use the term 'resposiblity of choice' an dnot free-will. it portraies IMO the biblical fact that men are resposible for and to the truths Gods reveals to them.
Either belief of the truth unto Life Eternal
or
Rejection of that truth unto damnation

 

[Jarthur001]

I find myself on both sides of what has been said.

1st side...

Hebrews 13:5:

".........I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee."

humm.


Is this verse true or false? If true..Christ has bound himself to never leave you.
If false...throw your Bible away.

The other side....

well...old timers of the BB can just guess.

 

[J.D.]

Let me clarify my statement, if I may.

You need to define FREE. Libertarian? Limited?
I believe,yes, Satan (like man) has a limited freedom of the will even NOW.

In speaking on the issue of men, I actaully use the term 'resposiblity of choice' an dnot free-will. it portraies IMO the biblical fact that men are resposible for and to the truths Gods reveals to them.
Either belief of the truth unto Life Eternal
or
Rejection of that truth unto damnation

Allan: Satan's will is free to what extent? Would you be willing to say that he is free to choose to do anything that is in keeping with his nature, but not free to go against his nature, which is evil, so he can not choose to love God?

This is all about the justification of God. That's the question asked in Romans "Is God just?"

If Satan does not have libertarian free will, how can God punish him forever for sins that he can not repent of.

If Christ did not die for Satan, then he has no way of salvation. How can God punish Satan if He has not even provided a way of redemption for him?

If Satan does have libertarian free will, then there must be some good in him, and there must be potential for him to be saved if he only had the opportunity, right?

Allan, what is Paul's answer to these questions?

 

[psalms109:31]

I agree with Allen

Satan had tasted the good things of God and rebelled. When He chose to go against God, He cannot have what He once had.

We have not yet tasted the good things of God, we still have a chance to be saved and taste the good things of God.

To stand with God no matter what we believe.

To believe Him and His word even over our own evil desires.

We stand with God we cannot be cast down.

Jesus will never leave us or forsake us, but if we disown Him He will disown us, just as the scripture says.

If we go our going proves we never of Him

 

[AAA]

The bible says "the devils believe and tremble". Does this mean they can be saved?

(rhetorical question - setting up a discussion)

NO!

Because the ONLY ONE that can save HIM has said that HE will not chose to save the devil......