Can saved people drink alchoholic wine and really be saved?

[Palatka51]

An argument? No an honest discussion? Yes.
No I haven't gotten out of it what I was looking for
I would like a serious debate.
I would also like you and others to actually answer the question:
Is drinking a sign that some one either is not or at least probably is not a christian?
I can't seem to get a straight answer.

There is only one sure fired way that you can tell whether a person is a Christian or not. And here it is.
Mark 3:28,29
28Verily I say unto you, All sins shall be forgiven unto the sons of men, and blasphemies wherewith soever they shall blaspheme:
29But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation:

Again, I ask why risk your lowered inhibitions by drinking (and one drink does lower them) and then blurt out blasphemy? It is not worth that first/one drink to loose ones soul. The risk is just too high. To blaspheme against God is to try to tear down all that is God's Holy work.
God's Holy work in you is the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ. Why risk that work in you by drinking?

I have raised my children, they are now adults. Both have drank alcohol and have sinned in doing. Both came to me in tears asking forgiveness as they knew that Daddy never has had a drink and it has never been seen in my house.
Have I kicked them out for drinking? No!
Why haven't I?
Because they were guilty of ungodliness and came and repented of it. I did not know that one child had done such a thing until she came to me in tears.
The other one I found out before he had came to me. I simply asked and it was like he melted and wept in bitter tears.
I did not yell, I did not pitch a fit over their indiscretion, I simply forgave.
Will it happen again with them? They say it won't. I have to now display trust. There is every indication that they will never do it again.

Had they had said that they liked it and that they will continue in it and could care less about the way they were raised and proceeded to break down all that their mother and I have built then I would have been very torn and distraught. In my wrath I would have been forced to cast them out.

I feel that this is what Jesus is talking about here. Forgive, forgive, forgive.

 

[webdog]

I have raised my children, they are now adults. Both have drank alcohol and have sinned in doing. Both came to me in tears asking forgiveness as they knew that Daddy never has had a drink and it has never been seen in my house.
Have I kicked them out for drinking? No!
Why haven't I?
Because they were guilty of ungodliness and came and repented of it. I did not know that one child had done such a thing until she came to me in tears.
The other one I found out before he had came to me. I simply asked and it was like he melted and wept in bitter tears.
I did not yell, I did not pitch a fit over their indiscretion, I simply forgave.
Will it happen again with them? They say it won't. I have to now display trust. There is every indication that they will never do it again.

Why do your kids come to you for forgiveness in sinning against God?!? Who are you to forgive them for their perceived "sins"?

 

[Dale-c]

Palatka, some here ( not you from what I remember)
Have stated that my position is blasphemy.
Also, I would hate to have such a weak view of the cross as to think that one little drink could cause me to lose my salvation.

 

[Dale-c]

Why do your kids come to you for forgiveness in sinning against God?!? Who are you to forgive them for their perceived "sins"?

It is a good point that they had not sinned directly against God but against their fathers rules.
Children should obey their parents but once they are adults they must make a decision for themselves.

 

[Palatka51]

I would like to know the same thing.
The others that have not liked the way I worded some of the questions explained what they really believe.

SFIC has on several occasions hinted that he didn't think people are saved who drink.
The problem is that you can't say that without getting suspended.
With this poll, I have tried to allow him to say what he really believes without pointing fingers because I would like to know without getting him or anyone else removed from this forum.

Then why did you ask the first two choices?

I for one do not believe drinking effects ones salvation. However drinking should not advised for anybody. From the first sip you are risking a terrible sin. We all have a sin nature and that Spirit of God helps us to keep it in remission. The spirit of alcohol is just waiting to release our sin nature. Again I ask why risk it?

Look I am not Christ and you are not. If Jesus drank an alcoholic wine and I am not convinced he did He and only He could have handled it with out sinning, if your definition of sinful drinking is getting drunk. IOWS He did not drink unto drunkenness. Someday everyone that drinks will get drunk and the consciousness here is that drunkenness is sin.
Again I ask why risk it?

 

[saturneptune]

It is clear that you don't know much about wine or alcoholic beverages. by baptist "believer"
Respectfully sir, it seems to me you don't know much about the Sinless Son of God.
Do you know the qualifications of the High Priest?
Do you know that in Christ there was no sin nor guile found in His mouth?
Do you know He didn't even accept the "vinegar" offered to Him on the cross

deleted on second thought, not going to be lead into a debate on such a ridiculous premise as this one.

 

[Baptist Believer]

Someday everyone that drinks will get drunk...

I reject that assertion. I know a number of people who drink on occasion and have never been drunk.

It is actually very easy not to get drunk. Simply eat something of substance with your drink, sip it over the course of an hour or so, and don't order another.

 

[Dale-c]

The spirit of alcohol is just waiting to release our sin nature.

Whoa! Are you really attributing spiritual power to an inanimate object?
This is not what the Bible says at all.
It says that wine cheereth God and man.
It says that it is good to take for stomach ailments.
It says that Jesus turned the water into wine at the wedding and it was the best of wine.

 

[Dale-c]

I reject that assertion. I know a number of people who drink on occasion and have never been drunk.

It is actually very easy not to get drunk. Simply eat something of substance with your drink, sip it over the course of an hour or so, and don't order another.

Yes, same here.

 

[Palatka51]

It is a good point that they had not sinned directly against God but against their fathers rules.
Children should obey their parents but once they are adults they must make a decision for themselves.

Thank you Dale-c.

 

[webdog]

It is a good point that they had not sinned directly against God but against their fathers rules.
Children should obey their parents but once they are adults they must make a decision for themselves.

All sin is against God. They could ask their fathers forgiveness for breaking his rules, but nor for sinning against God.

 

[Palatka51]

Why do your kids come to you for forgiveness in sinning against God?!? Who are you to forgive them for their perceived "sins"?

I will appeal to my kinder self and not even think that I have read this. Now I'll just remove the knife and hand it back to you please wipe it off before you put it away.
I have bore my soul. May I find that I have not cast my pearls before swine. :tear: raying:

 

[ccrobinson]

Had they had said that they liked it and that they will continue in it and could care less about the way they were raised and proceeded to break down all that their mother and I have built then I would have been very torn and distraught. In my wrath I would have been forced to cast them out.

So, if your kids had one drink, you would have disowned them? That's a little harsh, isn't it?

Here's a very nice article about "Alcohol and the Bible".

And a couple of jokes.

Q. Why do you never invite just one Baptist to go fishing with you?
A. If you invite one, he'll drink all your beer. If you invite two, they won't drink any.

"Jews don't recognize Jesus as Messiah; Lutherans don't recognize the infallibility of the pope, and Baptists don't recognize each other at the liquor store."

I forgot whether Colossians 2:16-23 has been mentioned in this thread. If not, it's time we mentioned it. If it has, then I'll mention it again. Please go look it up, because it's a bit more than I think needs quoted here. Here's verse 16 to get you going.

Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:

Paul admonishes us not to judge about drink, but I see an awful lot judging going on in this thread, and on this board, over alcohol.

BTW, if you don't read Internetmonk's blog yet, I think you should start. Here's a link to a piece about Southern Baptists and alcohol.

 

[webdog]

I will appeal to my kinder self and not even think that I have read this. Now I'll just remove the knife and hand it back to you please wipe it off before you put it away.
I have bore my soul. May I find that I have not cast my pearls before swine. :tear: raying:

I will appeal to my kinder self and not even think that you have referred to me as "swine".

I see you have coffee in your avatar. I'm sure you are well aware that ounce for ounce, caffeine affects the mind moreso than alcohol...right?

 

[Palatka51]

Why do your kids come to you for forgiveness in sinning against God?!? Who are you to forgive them for their perceived "sins"?

They said that they were sorry for having drank. They know their sin before God as well. What is left is between them and God. That is not a part that I can resolve. As much as I could I would. Alas I am but a man. A Dad but yet a man. May God be gracious to us all.:tear: I am sorry that I brought this witness into this forum. I thought that it would be of help to someone else. May my children forgive me for being a foolish man.

 

[saturneptune]

There is only one sure fired way that you can tell whether a person is a Christian or not. And here it is.
Mark 3:28,29
28Verily I say unto you, All sins shall be forgiven unto the sons of men, and blasphemies wherewith soever they shall blaspheme:
29But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation:

Again, I ask why risk your lowered inhibitions by drinking (and one drink does lower them) and then blurt out blasphemy? It is not worth that first/one drink to loose ones soul. The risk is just too high. To blaspheme against God is to try to tear down all that is God's Holy work.
God's Holy work in you is the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ. Why risk that work in you by drinking?

It would really be interesting for you to give a precise definition and example of how a saved person could blaspheme the Holy Spirit by taking one drink, or even drinking too much. In fact, it would be good to know your definition of that sin in general. Can a saved person commit that sin? Does that mean one can lose salvation?

I will be looking forward to your response.

 

[Palatka51]

I will appeal to my kinder self and not even think that you have referred to me as "swine".

I see you have coffee in your avatar. I'm sure you are well aware that ounce for ounce, caffeine affects the mind moreso than alcohol...right?

Coffee does not loosen the morals. Wherefore is the sin in a morning cup of joe?

 

[webdog]

Coffee does not loosen the morals. Wherefore is the sin in a morning cup of joe?

...neither does alcohol. Sin loosens morals. A drug is a drug (caffeine).

 

[Baptist Believer]

Can a saved person commit [blasphemy against the Holy Spirit]?

I know this question is not directed toward me, but I'm convinced that a true believer is incapable of committing blasphemy against the Holy Spirit. Jesus teaches in Matthew 12:33-35 that a person speaks out of what is in their heart. If there is blasphemy in the heart, it doesn't really matter whether or not it is verbalized. Therefore, alcohol makes no difference in that situation, even if it "causes" someones lips to be loosened.

I'm convinced Jesus knows what He is talking about.

 

[tinytim]

I wouldn't want to serve a God that was not able to keep me even when I stumble...

Thank God, he has promised to keep me.
Thank God I have, currently, eternal life.

God saved me, I can never, ever, ever, ever be lost again...

Maybe others would have more joy in their lives if they recognized this fact. Instead of living by a bunch of rules and regs, we should live by grace.

That is why Christianity is a relationship not a religion.