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Can the Christian church support nationalsim?

Crabtownboy

Crabtownboy

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The following quote is from a 1934 report published by the Baptist World Alliance commission on Nationalism. Nils Johan Nordström, Vice-President of the Swedish Baptists was the head of the commission. Historically the report is speaking about the issue of National Socalism that was growing in power and influence in Germany. I believe the quote below is still valid today:

We Baptists are convinced that the Church of Jesus Christ can never be a tool for nationalistic endeavours without losing her power and denying her mission to the world; that any sort of dependency on the State, which restricts her freedom to exercise love in the world, represents a real danger for the church and reduces her opportunities to carry the gospel to the ends of the world.

N.J. Nordström, Report from the BWA Commission on ‘Nationalism’, BWA Fifth
World Congress, BWA Archive, Valley Forge, Pa.
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J

JustChristian

New Member
Crabtownboy said:
The following quote is from a 1934 report published by the Baptist World Alliance commission on Nationalism. Nils Johan Nordström, Vice-President of the Swedish Baptists was the head of the commission. Historically the report is speaking about the issue of National Socalism that was growing in power and influence in Germany. I believe the quote below is still valid today:
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I agree with this statement. Jesus commanded us to be in this world but not of this world. The Christian church is the bride of Christ not a vehicle for supporting the government or a political party.
 
O

OldRegular

Well-Known Member
sag38 said:
More liberal fluff from Crabby. Thanks but no thanks.
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Jesus Christ did say:

Matthew 22:21. They say unto him, Caesar’s. Then saith he unto them, Render therefore unto Caesar the things which are Caesar’s; and unto God the things that are God’s.
 
preachinjesus

preachinjesus

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sag38 said:
More liberal fluff from Crabby. Thanks but no thanks.
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And how is this constructive?

If you don't agree or want to post fine, but if you do how about adding some substance there? Just a thought.
 
Crabtownboy

Crabtownboy

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sag38 said:
More liberal fluff from Crabby. Thanks but no thanks.
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Sag, can you tell why you think it is "liberal fluff"? What is liberal about it? Give me some substance please and not just a one liner that sahs nothing.

What do you mean by no thanks?

Remember this was written in 1934 and was directed at Hitler and his pals in Germany. So, please use as a context.
 
M

matt wade

Well-Known Member
Crabtownboy said:
We Baptists are convinced that the Church of Jesus Christ can never be a tool for nationalistic endeavours without losing her power and denying her mission to the world; that any sort of dependency on the State, which restricts her freedom to exercise love in the world, represents a real danger for the church and reduces her opportunities to carry the gospel to the ends of the world.
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I agree with the statement, though I don't think it means that our Christianity shouldn't play a key role in our politics.

nationalistic: devotion to the interests or culture of a particular nation including promoting the interests of one country over those of others

My interpretation of the statement is that the Church should not be used to promote the interests of a particular nation over another nation. That I can totally agree with. The Church should not be a tool of the state. We should, however, utilize the state as a tool of the Church to spread the love of Jesus to as many people as possible. That includes voicing our Christian beliefs to stop things such as abortion.
 
Crabtownboy

Crabtownboy

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JustChristian said:
What things do you consider to be Caesar's?
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Very good question for a new thread.

To answer the question we cannot just quote Matt. 22:21 ... but have to put it in its context:

17Tell us therefore, What thinkest thou? Is it lawful to give tribute unto Caesar, or not?

18But Jesus perceived their wickedness, and said, Why tempt ye me, ye hypocrites?

19Shew me the tribute money. And they brought unto him a penny.

20And he saith unto them, Whose is this image and superscription?

21They say unto him, Caesar's. Then saith he unto them, Render therefore unto Caesar the things which are Caesar's; and unto God the things that are God's.

22When they had heard these words, they marvelled, and left him, and went their way.
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Jesus is saying, IMHO, that tribute to Casear is all right. He is not saying that blind loyality to Cesar ... or to any state is permissible. Complete loyality is to be given only to God and never to the government. To give blind loyality to the government is to make it an idol of worship and the men to govern also idols. History shows that when this is done very bad things happen.
 
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S

sag38

Active Member
Why should I answer questions from the "Christian" left which is exactly where this article is coming from? No matter what I say it will be misconstrued so again I say, "Liberal Fluff. Thanks but no thanks."
 
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M

matt wade

Well-Known Member
sag38 said:
Why should I answer questions from the "Christian" left which is exactly where this article is coming from? No matter what I say it will be misconstrued so again I say, "Liberal Fluff. Thanks but no thanks."
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If you don't care to even comment on the topic at hand, why bother posting in this thread at all? Just to keep your "jab" in and act childish?
 
NaasPreacher (C4K)

NaasPreacher (C4K)

Well-Known Member
I think this is an interesting topic. Though the New Testament clearly teaches respect and submission to the state, I don't see the 'Red, White, and Blue Christianity' that is so common in the US.

I have traveled a little to churches in other countries and never seen the same kind of Christian Nationalism that we see in America. Of course I cannot make any kind of blanket statement because I have not been everywhere.

Should Christians 'wrap themselves in the flag?'

I don't know. I suspect the answer lies in some kind of balance.
 
R

Revmitchell

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
C4K said:
I think this is an interesting topic. Though the New Testament clearly teaches respect and submission to the state, I don't see the 'Red, White, and Blue Christianity' that is so common in the US.

I have traveled a little to churches in other countries and never seen the same kind of Christian Nationalism that we see in America. Of course I cannot make any kind of blanket statement because I have not been everywhere.

Should Christians 'wrap themselves in the flag?'

I don't know. I suspect the answer lies in some kind of balance.
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So how do you define "wrap yourself in the flag"?
 
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