Can you be a Christian AND (insert sin here)

[His Blood Spoke My Name]

Jesus said those who cried 'Lord, lord' were not known by Him. They could not have been saved.

Quit giving people false hope thinking they are saved just because they make a profession.

 

[Accountable]

I gave Scripture and you deny it. Your loss.

It is unfair when one asks proof about apples and you provide proof for oranges.

If you feel you have given any evidence, I have missed it. Please pull me bac on track by refering me to the scripture that pertains undoubtedly to the subject.

Also, shall I expect a reply concerning the valid scripture I asked you to loo over, I Cor. 3 and II Cor. 5?


To those who read before the editing, I assure you that I made a typo. I am sorry and am glad I caught it! My typing is almost as good as my experience in in flying a spaceship!

 

[J. Jump]

Jesus said those who cried 'Lord, lord' were not known by Him.

Not known in what way though. You say not known for eternal salvation, but that's not said in the text. Again textual evidence is that these criers were indeed saved and to say they weren't contradicts Scripture.

So exactly how can an unsaved man cast out a demon? By who's authority would that be possible? Can Satan cast out Satan. Scripture says no, but HBSMN says yes. Hmmm... Once again I think the choice is easy. Scripture!

They could not have been saved.

Actually they could not have been unsaved. Works is the context. Therefore eternal salvation is not. We are saved by grace through faith APART FROM WORKS. I know there are a number in Christendom that like to ignore that particular portion, but it's there. Works is the context of the passage, therefore eternal salvation is not. That's Scripture telling us what is being talked about.

The fact that seeing these criers as saved hurts "your" doctrine reveals much.

Quit giving people false hope thinking they are saved just because they make a profession.

Again if people profess that they believe Jesus Christ, the Lamb of God died and shed His blood on their behalf a sinner they are saved. That's what Scripture says. Just because you and Linda and others like you don't like that, doesn't make it untrue.

It's tough when your man-made doctrine crumbles around you. Trust me I've been there and done that. But we can either let Scripture shape our doctrine or we can let our doctrine shape Scripture. I'll choose the first!

 

[Accountable]

I know this is off subject but I am rather curious here.....

Would there be any here who are against these teachings that are a member of a SBC?

I do have a reason for asking. It isn't to jump onto anyone or start something different. I am going somewhere with this.

 

[His Blood Spoke My Name]

Matthew 7:22-23 22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Just what part of 'never' do you not understand, Jump?

 

[Accountable]

Jesus said those who cried 'Lord, lord' were not known by Him. They could not have been saved.

Quit giving people false hope thinking they are saved just because they make a profession.

Just curious, ever known anyone who, like the prodigal son, left home and changed his attitude toward his father. Ever hear of a father saying to that wayward son: "Son, I don't even know you!"

Does this means he all of a sudden lost the relationdship with his father or is it that he had lost the fellowship?

Some are going to hanng their hat on the word "never."

I am not afraid to address this. It is ludicrous to believe that upon spiritual salvation on becomes this mighty man who all of a sudden doesn't want to sin and always listens to the conviction of the Holy Spirit. Are new believers not likened unot Babies in the Bible? I don't know about you but all 5 of my children weren't born with an admiration and respect for me, their father. They each had to be trained to obey me. Sometimes they learned the hard way but it took time. They grew to "honor"me. Babies must learn respect and authority little by little. Some babes in Christ grow quicker than others. Some never grow at all. They just sip on milk and never touch the meat. They b=never experience a victoriuos Christian life. They do not see the need to personally experience God. Therefore they never gave Him the chance to "know" them as He would have wanted to. They never had that relationship that others have experienced.

 

[His Blood Spoke My Name]

Jump,

Quit your lying about me. I never said satan could cast out satan.

It is quite obvious that these that professed to know the Lord never knew Him. Christ said He never knew them, so they certainly could not have known Him.

Since satan cannot cast out satan and Christ professed that He never knew these professors, it is obvious they were lying about casting out devils.

Or are you saying that Jesus was lying when He said, 'I never knew you'?

 

[J. Jump]

Just what part of 'never' do you not understand, Jump?

Just what part of CONTEXT do you not understand HBSMN? The subject of the text is WORKS. He never knew them in relation to their works. That's what's being said.

Eternal salvation is not in question here as much as you want it to be. Just because the word never is in a text doesn't mean it is talking about eternal salvation. CONTEXT, CONTEXT, CONTEXT. Context is king, right?

 

[J. Jump]

Quit your lying about me. I never said satan could cast out satan.

Of course you didn't out and out say it. But by the very stance you are taking on that passage that is your only option. So if Satan didn't cast out Satan, by who's authority did those "unsaved" individuals cast out the demons?

is obvious they were lying about casting out devils.

And yet Jesus makes no mention of them lying about the works they had done. Once again we are supposed to believe HBSMN. Hmmm . . . Nice try, but there is ZERO evidence that these criers were lying. But if you want to believe that you are more than welcome. You go ahead and base your doctrine on assumptions and I'll stick with what is said and what is not said. We all know what assuming does.

Or are you saying that Jesus was lying when He said, 'I never knew you'?

Nope, but thanks for asking .

 

[Accountable]

Jump,

Quit your lying about me. I never said satan could cast out satan.

It is quite obvious that these that professed to know the Lord never knew Him. Christ said He never knew them, so they certainly could not have known Him.

Since satan cannot cast out satan and Christ professed that He never knew these professors, it is obvious they were lying about casting out devils.

Or are you saying that Jesus was lying when He said, 'I never knew you'?

How can you say that they were lying to Christ. There are only believers at the Judgement Seat of Christ. Are you 1: Placing these at the Gret White Throne or 2:Believers and lost before the Judgement Seat of Christ.

 

[Linda64]

Linda once again if someone believes and professes that Jesus Christ shed His blood and died on the cross on their behalf a sinner they are saved whether you like it or not. And no they don't have to say a prayer, they simply have to believe (Acts 16:30-31 and Ephesians 2:8-9).

Sure hope you don't kiss your mom with such a nasty mouth.

First of all, my mom is dead--second, I don't consider that a nasty statement --sorry you took it that way.

Simply believing that Jesus Christ shed His blood and died on the cross for our sins does not save. That's like someone asking you if you believe the sky is blue and you say "yes, I believe the sky is blue". You can believe all you want about Jesus Christ and His atoning death, but until you actually "trust Christ" and repent, you are simply a "professor" of Christ and you are still lost.

Now I rejoice, not that ye were made sorry, but that ye sorrowed to repentance: for ye were made sorry after a godly manner, that ye might receive damage by us in nothing. (2 Corinthians 7:9) For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death. (2 Corinthians 7:10)

But shewed first unto them of Damascus, and at Jerusalem, and throughout all the coasts of Judaea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, and do works meet for repentance. (Acts 26:20)

But go ye and learn what that meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance. (Matthew 9:13)

When Jesus heard it, he saith unto them, They that are whole have no need of the physician, but they that are sick: I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance. (Mark 2:17)

I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance. (Luke 5:32)

I say unto you, that likewise joy shall be in heaven over one sinner that repenteth, more than over ninety and nine just persons, which need no repentance. (Luke 15:7)

And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem. (Luke 24:47)

Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins. (Acts 5:31)

Testifying both to the Jews, and also to the Greeks, repentance toward God, and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ. (Acts 20:21)

But shewed first unto them of Damascus, and at Jerusalem, and throughout all the coasts of Judaea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, and do works meet for repentance. (Acts 26:20)

In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth; (2 Timothy 2:25)

There needs to be a change of heart--there has to be "repentance". Jesus, Paul, Peter, and John all taught repentance. Although the word "repentance" is not found in John's gospel, it is implied. Saved people are "changed" people. They have "turned from" (repentance) sin and "turn towards" God. James said that "faith without works is dead"--this doesn't mean he was teaching "works salvation". It means that if you are going to profess and say you believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, your "actions" will prove your faith.

 

[His Blood Spoke My Name]

How can I say they were lying? By their statements. They professed to know the Lord. The Lord told them He did not know them. Hence, they could not have known the Lord.]

Theirs was just a feeble attempt to be accepted of the one they truly had rejected in life.

 

[J. Jump]

second, I don't consider that a nasty statement

WOW...saying the thread was going perfectly fine until I started posting is not nasty. WOW. Well okay.

Simply believing that Jesus Christ shed His blood and died on the cross for our sins does not save.

Really. DOUBLE WOW. Care to show me in Scripture where believing on the finished works of Christ done on your behalf a sinner is not enough to save. Not sure you are going to get many Amens on that one, but I may be surprised.

You can believe all you want about Jesus Christ and His atoning death, but until you actually "trust Christ" and repent, you are simply a "professor" of Christ and you are still lost.

Believing Christ is trusting Christ. Repentance is a work, and therefore has no place in eternal salvation or Paul was lying to us when he said it was by God's grace through faith apart from works.

There needs to be a change of heart--there has to be "repentance".

Well let's just see if that is true.

Ephesians 2:8-9:

For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Hmmm . . . no mention of repentance there.

Acts 16:30-31

And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved? And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

Wow . . . again no mention of repentance. Was Paul lying to the jailor when he left repentance out of the equation Linda?

James said that "faith without works is dead"--this doesn't mean he was teaching "works salvation". It means that if you are going to profess and say you believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, your "actions" will prove your faith.

Sorry but James was talking to already saved individuals. Eternal salvation was already a done deal for those folks. Context, context, context.

 

[His Blood Spoke My Name]

How can you say that they were lying to Christ. There are only believers at the Judgement Seat of Christ. Are you 1: Placing these at the Gret White Throne or 2:Believers and lost before the Judgement Seat of Christ.

It is quite obvious that the professors in Matthew 7:22 are at the Great White Throne Judgment.

 

[J. Jump]

The Lord told them He did not know them. Hence, they could not have known the Lord.

That doesn't prove they were lying. Jesus never said they were lying. He called them workers of iniquity not liars. Their works were works of lawlessness. Again you are basing doctrine on assumption. And you are more than welcome to do that, but I'm not going to follow you. You're going to have to come up with some better evidence than your assumptions.

 

[His Blood Spoke My Name]

WOW...saying the thread was going perfectly fine until I started posting is not nasty. WOW. Well okay.

Truth hurts, huh?

 

[J. Jump]

It is quite obvious that the professors in Matthew 7:22 are at the Great White Throne Judgment.

So now we are to believe that entrance into the kingdom of the heavens is going to be decided at the Great White Throne Judgment? Again I don't think you are going to get many Amens on that one, but once again I might be surprised.

Truth hurts, huh?

Doesn't hurt, just surprised that one would not consider that a nasty statement. Don't think there would be much support for that, but it doesn't suprise me that you woudn't think so.

 

[Accountable]

First of all, my mom is dead--second, I don't consider that a nasty statement --sorry you took it that way.

Simply believing that Jesus Christ shed His blood and died on the cross for our sins does not save. That's like someone asking you if you believe the sky is blue and you say "yes, I believe the sky is blue". You can believe all you want about Jesus Christ and His atoning death, but until you actually "trust Christ" and repent, you are simply a "professor" of Christ and you are still lost.

Now I rejoice, not that ye were made sorry, but that ye sorrowed to repentance: for ye were made sorry after a godly manner, that ye might receive damage by us in nothing. (2 Corinthians 7:9) For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death. (2 Corinthians 7:10)

But shewed first unto them of Damascus, and at Jerusalem, and throughout all the coasts of Judaea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, and do works meet for repentance. (Acts 26:20)

But go ye and learn what that meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance. (Matthew 9:13)

When Jesus heard it, he saith unto them, They that are whole have no need of the physician, but they that are sick: I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance. (Mark 2:17)

I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance. (Luke 5:32)

I say unto you, that likewise joy shall be in heaven over one sinner that repenteth, more than over ninety and nine just persons, which need no repentance. (Luke 15:7)

And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem. (Luke 24:47)

Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins. (Acts 5:31)

Testifying both to the Jews, and also to the Greeks, repentance toward God, and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ. (Acts 20:21)

But shewed first unto them of Damascus, and at Jerusalem, and throughout all the coasts of Judaea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, and do works meet for repentance. (Acts 26:20)

In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth; (2 Timothy 2:25)

There needs to be a change of heart--there has to be "repentance". Jesus, Paul, Peter, and John all taught repentance. Although the word "repentance" is not found in John's gospel, it is implied. Saved people are "changed" people. They have "turned from" (repentance) sin and "turn towards" God. James said that "faith without works is dead"--this doesn't mean he was teaching "works salvation". It means that if you are going to profess and say you believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, your "actions" will prove your faith.

Linda:: Do you mean that it is possible that Paul lied to the Jailor in Acts and Phillip lied to the Eunich?

I see you are bringing about verses about repentance.

May I ask a simple question. (It is usually these simple questions that never get answered but I will try)

What is repentance? If it is needed for spiritual regeneration (everlasting life)
we definitely need to inow what it is.

 

[Accountable]

It is quite obvious that the professors in Matthew 7:22 are at the Great White Throne Judgment.

A wonderful Bible teacher by the name of Arlen Chtiwood once said in a lesson in Tennessee: "There are three rules of Herminutics: Rule #1: CONTEXT, Rule #2: CONTEXT, Rule #3:CONTEXT. If ever there neede to be a 4th rule it would be: CONTEXT.

Let's look at the whole chapter:
vs 1&2: believers (in type)

vs 3: How can you behold the mote that is in your brother's eye if he isn't your brother?

Same in vs 4, 5,

Vs. 6 believers too ( in type)

Vs 7 again believers. Might I add this is not a salvation of the spirit verse. To be saved spiritually no work is involved. Not in asing seeking or knocking. None of us were "seeking" for God when He sought us. He isn't playing hide and seek with unbelievers.

vs. 8 In CONTEXT, what would make us believed that he has all of a sudden shifted from training of the brethren to the Great White Throne of Judgement?

vs. 9 believers
vs 10 believers
etc etc etc

 

[His Blood Spoke My Name]

There was no need for Paul and Silas to tell the Philippian jailor to repent, his actions showed his repentance.

Acts 16:29-30 Then he called for a light, and sprang in, and came trembling, and fell down before Paul and Silas, And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?

There was no need for Philip to tell the Ethiopian Eunuch to repent, his actions showed his repentance.

Acts 8:26-39 And the angel of the Lord spake unto Philip, saying, Arise, and go toward the south unto the way that goeth down from Jerusalem unto Gaza, which is desert. And he arose and went: and, behold, a man of Ethiopia, an eunuch of great authority under Candace queen of the Ethiopians, who had the charge of all her treasure, and had come to Jerusalem for to worship, Was returning, and sitting in his chariot read Esaias the prophet. Then the Spirit said unto Philip, Go near, and join thyself to this chariot. And Philip ran thither to him, and heard him read the prophet Esaias, and said, Understandest thou what thou readest? And he said, How can I, except some man should guide me? And he desired Philip that he would come up and sit with him. The place of the scripture which he read was this, He was led as a sheep to the slaughter; and like a lamb dumb before his shearer, so opened he not his mouth: In his humiliation his judgment was taken away: and who shall declare his generation? for his life is taken from the earth. And the eunuch answered Philip, and said, I pray thee, of whom speaketh the prophet this? of himself, or of some other man? Then Philip opened his mouth, and began at the same scripture, and preached unto him Jesus. And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized? And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God. And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him. And when they were come up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord caught away Philip, that the eunuch saw him no more: and he went on his way rejoicing.

In both cases, the men showed signs of repentance.