Originally posted by Carson Weber:
I haven't asked for you to apologize for sharing the truth about catholicism. I'm asking for you to apologize for the libel that you have committed.
I haven't committed any.
Originally posted by Carson Weber:
"By the way, if you would, please - in your reply - state that you've read this material. That way, I'll know that you're actually reading what I post."
I did see it, but, not being a child, I didn't feel the need to address this childish remark. Your condescending attitude is really uncalled for and merely evidence that you just can't stand the fact that someone
dare speak out against your church. If you want to discuss, then fine, but do not dare say you know what I have read and have not read.
I will show you in your hightlights how what I said did indeed apply to your article. I am not going to allow you to demand of me what you refuse to do. You refuse to accept any of my resources based upon your own personal biases against the source from which it came. I will not merely trust yours because you say so. You will not find the pope's speech but you will find one man's spin on the pope's speech. Not every Jew believes as this man does and in a minute I will explain why.
Originally posted by Carson Weber:
You've shown your true colors, Lorelei
And I am the one addressing the Catholic Church, not Carson's character, Thess's character, not any one person. I believe you do spread lies when you teach what the Catholic church teaches, but i realize that your do so, out of ignorance. I do not assume you willingly share the lie, since you do not realize it to be one. Your true colors really show when you so vehemently attack another poster who is posting only what she believes to be true.
Originally posted by Carson Weber:
";In calling for a 'real new order' based on 'liberty, justice, and love'
Too vague, the following statements were "interpretation of what that meant".
Originally posted by Carson Weber:
in which he expressed his passionate concern"for those hundreds of thousands who, without any fault of their own, sometimes only by reason of their nationality or race, are marked down for death or progressive extinction,"
All I know from certain from this quote is that the pope said
something "for those hundreds of thousands". The quote merely says it was some "concern" for them. What kind, where is the rest of the pope's words? I don't want to hear what the Rabbi thought the world understood those words to mean. The Rabbi can't possibly know what the rest of the world thought those words meant. Finish the quote, show me what the pope said, unadulterated and uninterpreted.
I have news for you, from an actual news organization. Not all the world agrees with this Rabbi. There was more than just silence from the Catholic Church and Jews are still not satisified. Not only this, but the fact that the pope
is attempting to apologize shows that even HE realizes there are many things in your church's history that DOES need to be apologized for. Could this infallible man be wrong? Maybe you should introduce
him to the Rabbi.
Here is a news artice from
CBS News about the pope's apology from March 12, 2000. Let us not forget,
according to Carson, the pope could have easily reminded people that the catholic church was not silent but "was the lonely voice" crying out against it, and he did no such thing.
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2000/03/12/world/main171032.shtml
There was no specific reference to the Holocaust, in which the Nazis killed some six million Jews.
Failure to deal directly with what many see as Vatican acquiescence with the Holocaust under Pope Pius XII has also left the Jewish community less than completely satisfied.
Professor Giacobo Saban of the Italian National Jewish Union says, "I think that a reference for instance to what happened during the Second World War would not have been amiss."
But there is more to it than that. It appears the church was not only silent, but that they profited from Jewish slave labor. Here is another article from the same day
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2000/03/12/national/main171129.shtml
This spring, Swiss banks are expected to reach a settlement with victims, as are German companies who used Jews for slave labor. But this case accuses another bank of collaborating with the Croation Nazis, the bank of the Catholic Church, the Vatican Bank.
John Loftus, an expert on Nazi war crimes, says, ”As embarrassing as it is to me as a Roman Catholic to admit, there is a great deal of validity to the accusations in the lawsuit.”
Loftus and others have charged that Pope Pius XII and his advisors actually supported the Nazis by giving them a place to hide stolen money.
See, and this is why these "vague" apologies do not carry any weight with the Jewish community, and the reason the Catholic church will not make a bold statement denouncing the holocaust. The Catholic Church is guilty for committing their own crimes against the Jews, ones very similiar to those of Hitler and his nazi regime.
During the crusades the catholic church did not free the Holy land from the infidels
for the Jews, but for themselves. They slaughtered many innocent Jews. Here how this Jewish community feels about all gentiles because of the evils preformed in the name of "Christ".
http://www.baruchhashem.com/resources/ibjchper.html
To highlight:
There the Crusaders locked all Jews in the village inside the local synagogue and burned it down. The Crusade period was a very dark time in Jewish history.
And what of Hitler's Jewish ghetto. Segragating those people, merely because of their race or nationality and making them wear an identifying mark if they were to ever walk outside the ghetto. Where could he even get such a vile and evil and hateful idea? Take a guess.
http://www.encyclopedia.com/html/g1/ghetto.asp
The first compulsory ghettos were in Spain and Portugal at the end of the 14th cent. The ghetto was typically walled, with gates that were closed at a certain hour each night, and all Jews had to be inside the gate at that hour or suffer penalties. The reason generally given for compulsory ghettos was that the faith of Christians would be weakened by the presence of Jews; the idea of Jewish segregation dates from the Lateran Councils of 1179 and 1215.
Economic activities, however, were restricted, and beyond the ghetto walls Jews were required to wear badges of identification. One of the most infamous ghettos was that of Frankfurt, to which Jews were compelled to move by a city ordinance of 1460. Crowded into a narrow section, the ghetto underwent several disastrous fires. The ghetto in Venice was established in 1516 after long negotiations between the city and the Jews. In 1870 the last ghetto in Western Europe, in Rome, was abolished.
But I guess CBS News and "Encyclopedia.com" are misinformed catholic bashers trying to propagate their own vicious agenda too?
Sorry, you still have not shown me, or the the world that your church is the least bit sorry for the crimes of the holocaust and you never will, for if they do, they must admit their own grave crimes endorsed by their own "infallible" leader.
~Lorelei
(edited because I mistakenly credited Fox News with the articles from CBS news)
[ June 19, 2003, 02:04 PM: Message edited by: Lorelei ]
