A brother and sister both made profession of faith as teens, both attended church for about a year, know both in their 30's and neither are going to church, both drink ( I know nothing wrong with that to some ) party and just do what they want. Mother say's Carnal ( 1 Corth. 3 ) I say Lost. What say you? I'm not trying to judge, just wondering your thoughts.
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Carnal or Lost
- Thread starter Servent
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thisnumbersdisconnected
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Brother, if that were true, you wouldn't ask the question.
You'd just develop a relationship with that couple and call upon the Holy Spirit to empower you as an instrument for either restoration, or salvation, whichever is necessary. And only God knows which it is.
He doesn't care if you do or not. He just wants to use you.
Ultimately we can't know, but I believe a genuine profession will result in genuine change. The gospel really does change someone. However, people stumble. And sometimes they stumble for a long time. The response is the same either way, they need to repent and trust Jesus to change them.
Zaac
Well-Known Member
You are too trying to judge and that's not a bad thing if you are righteously doing so. :laugh: Scripture says The person with the Spirit makes judgments about all things... 1 Cor. 2:15
Being a "carnal" Christian runs contrary to being saved and involved in the sanctification process brought about by the Holy Spirit.
There is no such thing as a continuously CARNAL Christian. It is not Biblical. It's not in churh history. It is something dreamt up by American Christianity to in many cases assuage the feelings of those who want to feel good in case something happens to a loved one.
It's perhaps the only way we can justify how( as I mentioned in another thread a while back) in the Church
We excuse away our drinking.
We excuse away our smoking.
We excuse away what we watch.
We excuse away what we listen to.
We excuse away why we disrespect authority.
We excuse away how we support a man who rejects Jesus while purporting to still want folks to come to Christ.
We excuse away the way we dress.
We excuse away our prejudices.
We excuse away our lack of love.
We excuse away our judging outside the church.
We excuse away our gluttony...our gossipping...and our phonyness.
We excuse away our desire to win an argument as defense of the faith.
We excuse away our nastyness in how we respond to others.
We excuse away the truth and ask for unneeded examples when we well know exactly what is being talked about.
When there is an encounter with the Creator of the Universe, there will be change.
Andas a person looking at the brother and sister from the outside, i would be sharing the Gospel because they don't sound like they are living as though they have been changed by Jesus.
:applause::applause::thumbs:
They give no evidence of conversion and should be biblically challenged on this:wavey:
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Zaac
Well-Known Member
Yep. If someone is living like they are going to hell, then I'm gonna assume that's because they are.
People on the way to see Jesus live their lives in a manner that brings Him glory. It doesn't mean perfection. But there should be some growth taking place.
Dead stuff doesn't grow.
So if you see someone who is dead in his trespasses, you shouldn't see any growth.
2 As for you, you were dead in your transgressions and sins, 2 in which you used to live when you followed the ways of this world and of the ruler of the kingdom of the air, the spirit who is now at work in those who are disobedient. 3 All of us also lived among them at one time, gratifying the cravings of our flesh[a] and following its desires and thoughts. Like the rest, we were by nature deserving of wrath. 4 But because of his great love for us, God, who is rich in mercy, 5 made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions—it is by grace you have been saved. Eph. 2:2-5
Under no circumstance should such a person be given assurance that they are a child of God yet.
7 If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?
8 But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.
9 Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?
10 For they verily for a few days chastened us after their own pleasure; but he for our profit, that we might be partakers of his holiness.
11 Now no chastening for the present seemeth to be joyous, but grievous: nevertheless afterward it yieldeth the peaceable fruit of righteousness unto them which are exercised thereby.
12 Wherefore lift up the hands which hang down, and the feeble knees;
13 And make straight paths for your feet, lest that which is lame be turned out of the way; but let it rather be healed.
14 Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord:
15 Looking diligently lest any man fail of the grace of God; lest any root of bitterness springing up trouble you, and thereby many be defiled;
SolaSaint
Well-Known Member
It is the result of modern evangelism from the seeker friendly formula of salvation. I'll bet they repeated a prayer in a service where they were pressured to come up front to get saved. The church is full of such, thanks Robert Schuler, Rick Warren and his 40,000 pastoral copies. Of course we still cannot know a man's heart but we can see evidence of true conversion. :thumbsup:
Zaac
Well-Known Member
AMEN! I decided a long time ago that I would never tell anyone that they are saved. I'll tell you how to BE saved and then direct you to do as Scripture says and EXAMINE yourself to see if you are in the faith.
It is a dangerous thing, and as Sola Saint pointed out, brought on by the walk the aisle and repeat a prayer crowd who aren't concerned about seemingly anything but numbers.
That's one of the reasons I abhor doing short term missions trips and people come back with reports of hundreds and hundreds of salvation just because they got folks to say a prayer.
Wouldn't the mother be privy to the situation more than you? Sounds like all of Paul's warnings to not quench the spirit were for naught as it is apparent from the fruit inspectors on this thread it's impossible to do anyway.
Christians have a responsibility to other professed Christians....
6 Brethren, if a man be overtaken in a fault, ye which are spiritual, restore such an one in the spirit of meekness; considering thyself, lest thou also be tempted.
2 Bear ye one another's burdens, and so fulfil the law of Christ.
3 For if a man think himself to be something, when he is nothing, he deceiveth himself.
4 But let every man prove his own work, and then shall he have rejoicing in himself alone, and not in another.
5 For every man shall bear his own burden.
6 Let him that is taught in the word communicate unto him that teacheth in all good things.
7 Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.
8 For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.
9 And let us not be weary in well doing: for in due season we shall reap, if we faint not.
10 As we have therefore opportunity, let us do good unto all men, especially unto them who are of the household of faith.
Do you obey this portion of scripture???
or how about this???
12 And we beseech you, brethren, to know them which labour among you, and are over you in the Lord, and admonish you;
13 And to esteem them very highly in love for their work's sake. And be at peace among yourselves.
14 Now we exhort you, brethren, warn them that are unruly, comfort the feebleminded, support the weak, be patient toward all men.
Carnal.
We can't judge someone unsaved who's just ignoring the Holy Spirit.
If to habitually sin means you're not saved then no fat preacher will ever get to Heaven.
It does't make sense, and it's not biblical.
We can't judge someone unsaved who's just ignoring the Holy Spirit.
If to habitually sin means you're not saved then no fat preacher will ever get to Heaven.
It does't make sense, and it's not biblical.
If you look closely....it is right in between.....carnal and lost:wavey::wavey:
How does someone...ignore the Holy Spirit? for 15-20 years?
By living for self. I did it for 20.
All I see is an outward judgement of someone's salvation.
Not sure, but you can see the results sticking out from behind thousands of good Baptist podiums, every Sunday.
WD,
You are assuming they are saved.....If you address the two portions of scripture I offered you will see that both require a righteous judgement and a right attitude to restore the professed Christian...
I do not believe God has any undisciplined children....a person living for self as you say for a long period of time should not be given any assurance that they are a believer.
How do we know who to warn, how do we determine this without observing them?
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No Christian brother said anything to you in all that time?
No one cared enough about you to offer correction?
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