Catechisms

[Particular]

Yes, we both agree that you reject orthodox Christian doctrines. Again, there is nothing to repent from on those things you listed as the Catholic Church has the power to proclaim them as per the Scriptures. In the end God will do the judging on the Catholic Church's interpretation of the Holy Writ as He will judge your sect's interpretation of them.

I reject your traditions that are not doctrinally sound.
What I shared about your church is not biblically supported, but is made up over time as Rome consolidated power via the State.

God has already judged the Roman Catholic Church. This is why the Reformation was given God's blessing.

 

[utilyan]

Killing hundreds of thousands of people to maintain power...

John Calvin would have burned everyone here at the stake including me and you.

The acts of evil people is found universally, Even Judas who was hand picked by Jesus did wrong.

You need to focus on the teaching, Where does Catholicism teach Kill others?

Whereas I can point to Teachings of Martin Luther for example......calling it a SIN if YOU DON'T kill Jews.

 

[Oseas3]

Oh good grief! The Catholic Church has already apologized for it's sins from the past, now It's time for you to do the Christian thing and move on.

What prevails is the Word of God. The Word is God.

DANIEL 7

13 Behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him.

14 And there WAS GIVEN him Dominion, and Glory, and a Kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed.

16 I came near unto one of them that stood by, and asked him the TRUTH of all this. So he told me, and made me know the interpretation of the things.

17 These great beasts, which are four, are four kings, which shall arise out of the earth.

18 But THE SAINTS OF THE MOST HIGH SHALL TAKE THE KINGDOM, and possess the Kingdom for ever, even for ever and ever.

27 And the kingdom and dominion, and the greatness of the kingdom UNDER THE WHOLE HEAVEN, shall be given TO THE PEOPLE OF THE SAIANTS OF THE MOST HIGH, whose Kingdom is an everlasting Kingdom, and all dominions shall serve and obey him.

What prevails is the Word of God. The Word is God. God is a devouring fire.

Revelation 12:v.15 & 18
15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices saying, The kingdoms of THIS WORLD are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

18 And the nations were angry (yeah, the nations ruled and guided by the spirit of Devil WILL BE ANGRY), and thy wrath is come-the WRATH OF GOD IS COME-, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

Yeah, woe of the world ruled and guided by the spirit of the Evil one, the great Dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world, yeah, the WRATH OF GOD will fall upon the idolater nations ruled and guided by the Devil. THESE WORDS WILL FULFIL LITERALLY IN THE CURRENT TIME.


What prevails is the Word of God, there will not be escape.

Matthew 25:v.31-33 & 41
31 When the Son of man (not only JESUS but also Michael-Daniel 12:v.1-3 and 1Thessalonians 4:v.16) shall come in His glory, and all the holy angels with Him, then will He sit upon the throne of His Glory: ---> JESUS is already enthroned in His throne.

32 And before Him shall be gathered all nations: and He shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:

33 And he shall set the sheep on His right hand, but the goats on the left.

41 Here is the message of the LORD JESUS unto them ON THE LEFT HAND: Depart from me, ye CURSED, into everlasting FIRE, prepared for the Devil and his messengers.-False preachers of the Word of God, ministers of Satan-2Corinthians 11:v.13-15 (false apostles, false Pastors, and Rabbis, and Popes, Cardinals, Bishops, and Priests, among others), all them already ARE CURSED by the LORD Jesus Christ, the Almighty, KING of kings (kings made by Him), and LORD of lords. Yeah, the Lord's Day, the great Day of His wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

What prevails is the Word of God.

JESUS left it clearly revealed, by the way, the testimony of JESUS is the Spirit of prophecy: Revelation 19:v.19-21:

19 And the Beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make WAR against him that sat on the horse(on the WHITE HORSE), and against his army.

20 And the Beast was taken, and with him the false prophet (the false messiah of the Jews) that wrought miracles before him - before the Beast of sea - the Papacy -, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the Beast, and them that worshipped his image. These BOTH were cast alive into a LAKE OF FIRE burning with brimstone. - Yeah, even now, from now on, they will be cast into the hell's fire -

21 And the remnant were slain with the Sword - a sharp Sword - of him that sat upon the horse, which Sword proceeded out of his mouth(19:v.15): and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.

Woe of the world of Devil, yeah, woe of the inhabitants of the earth. Revelation 6:v.14-17

 

[utilyan]

Teaching indulgences to remove people from purgatory.
Teaching purgatory.
Worshipping relics.
Praying to the dead.
Teaching Mary as sinless and a perpetual virgin.
Teaching salvation by infant baptism.
Teaching salvation by drinking wine and eating bread and then claiming it is magically the actual flesh and blood of Jesus.
Failing to understand what grace is and means

"Teaching purgatory." The Jews taught it first and still have it.
The Catholic stance is there is a FINAL CLEANSING. So even if Jesus Cleanses you of sins once and only once....THAT would be your purgatory.

"Worshipping relics." Strawman. We worship God alone.

"Praying to the dead." All requests are made to people ALIVE IN CHRIST.

"Teaching Mary as sinless and a perpetual virgin." The CHURCH can bind and loose, as the holy spirit reveals.

"Teaching salvation by infant baptism." You are better off claiming its not a baptism at all. Because we only believe in ONE baptism and it is not FAKE or SYMBOLIC.

"Teaching salvation by drinking wine and eating bread and then claiming it is magically the actual flesh and blood of Jesus."

Simply we believe the bread and wine is Jesus' body and blood because he said so. Our senses or even perfect empirical evidence is secondary next to the word of Jesus. The physical mechanics, Spiritual mechanics or perceived magics is insignificant. Its under the command of Jesus he calls it his body and blood. He didn't say this is like my body, he didn't say this represents my blood. We rely on the word of GOD FIRST. not our personal understanding.

Proverbs 3
5Trust in the LORD with all your heart
And do not lean on your own understanding.



Failing to understand what grace is and means.

Grace is the love and mercy given to us by God.

 

[Particular]

"Teaching purgatory." The Jews taught it first and still have it.
The Catholic stance is there is a FINAL CLEANSING. So even if Jesus Cleanses you of sins once and only once....THAT would be your purgatory.

"Worshipping relics." Strawman. We worship God alone.

"Praying to the dead." All requests are made to people ALIVE IN CHRIST.

"Teaching Mary as sinless and a perpetual virgin." The CHURCH can bind and loose, as the holy spirit reveals.

"Teaching salvation by infant baptism." You are better off claiming its not a baptism at all. Because we only believe in ONE baptism and it is not FAKE or SYMBOLIC.

"Teaching salvation by drinking wine and eating bread and then claiming it is magically the actual flesh and blood of Jesus."

Simply we believe the bread and wine is Jesus' body and blood because he said so. Our senses or even perfect empirical evidence is secondary next to the word of Jesus. The physical mechanics, Spiritual mechanics or perceived magics is insignificant. Its under the command of Jesus he calls it his body and blood. He didn't say this is like my body, he didn't say this represents my blood. We rely on the word of GOD FIRST. not our personal understanding.

Proverbs 3
5Trust in the LORD with all your heart
And do not lean on your own understanding.



Failing to understand what grace is and means.

Grace is the love and mercy given to us by God.

So...no scripture that confirms any of those teachings...just tradition...

 

[utilyan]

What prevails is the Word of God. The Word is God.

DANIEL 7

13 Behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him.

14 And there WAS GIVEN him Dominion, and Glory, and a Kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed.

16 I came near unto one of them that stood by, and asked him the TRUTH of all this. So he told me, and made me know the interpretation of the things.

17 These great beasts, which are four, are four kings, which shall arise out of the earth.

18 But THE SAINTS OF THE MOST HIGH SHALL TAKE THE KINGDOM, and possess the Kingdom for ever, even for ever and ever.

27 And the kingdom and dominion, and the greatness of the kingdom UNDER THE WHOLE HEAVEN, shall be given TO THE PEOPLE OF THE SAIANTS OF THE MOST HIGH, whose Kingdom is an everlasting Kingdom, and all dominions shall serve and obey him.

What prevails is the Word of God. The Word is God. God is a devouring fire.

Revelation 12:v.15 & 18
15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices saying, The kingdoms of THIS WORLD are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

18 And the nations were angry (yeah, the nations ruled and guided by the spirit of Devil WILL BE ANGRY), and thy wrath is come-the WRATH OF GOD IS COME-, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

Yeah, woe of the world ruled and guided by the spirit of the Evil one, the great Dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world, yeah, the WRATH OF GOD will fall upon the idolater nations ruled and guided by the Devil. THESE WORDS WILL FULFIL LITERALLY IN THE CURRENT TIME.


What prevails is the Word of God, there will not be escape.

Matthew 25:v.31-33 & 41
31 When the Son of man (not only JESUS but also Michael-Daniel 12:v.1-3 and 1Thessalonians 4:v.16) shall come in His glory, and all the holy angels with Him, then will He sit upon the throne of His Glory: ---> JESUS is already enthroned in His throne.

32 And before Him shall be gathered all nations: and He shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:

33 And he shall set the sheep on His right hand, but the goats on the left.

41 Here is the message of the LORD JESUS unto them ON THE LEFT HAND: Depart from me, ye CURSED, into everlasting FIRE, prepared for the Devil and his messengers.-False preachers of the Word of God, ministers of Satan-2Corinthians 11:v.13-15 (false apostles, false Pastors, and Rabbis, and Popes, Cardinals, Bishops, and Priests, among others), all them already ARE CURSED by the LORD Jesus Christ, the Almighty, KING of kings (kings made by Him), and LORD of lords. Yeah, the Lord's Day, the great Day of His wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

What prevails is the Word of God.

JESUS left it clearly revealed, by the way, the testimony of JESUS is the Spirit of prophecy: Revelation 19:v.19-21:

19 And the Beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make WAR against him that sat on the horse(on the WHITE HORSE), and against his army.

20 And the Beast was taken, and with him the false prophet (the false messiah of the Jews) that wrought miracles before him - before the Beast of sea - the Papacy -, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the Beast, and them that worshipped his image. These BOTH were cast alive into a LAKE OF FIRE burning with brimstone. - Yeah, even now, from now on, they will be cast into the hell's fire -

21 And the remnant were slain with the Sword - a sharp Sword - of him that sat upon the horse, which Sword proceeded out of his mouth(19:v.15): and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.

Woe of the world of Devil, yeah, woe of the inhabitants of the earth. Revelation 6:v.14-17

You can find the word of God in scripture, scripture is not the word of God.

1 Corinthians 13
1If I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, but do not have love, I have become a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal.


All I'm seeing is an obsession of seeking self immortality. People try to emphasize things about Jesus in hopes of hiding what Jesus himself teaches us to do. They also emphasize SALVATION instead of what God commands us to focus on.

God commands us to Love God and Love neighbor.


Matthew 6
34“So do not worry about tomorrow; for tomorrow will care for itself. Each day has enough trouble of its own.

Warning us about tomorrow? tomorrow can take care of itself, You have problem to take care of TODAY.

 

[Particular]

John Calvin would have burned everyone here at the stake including me and you.

The acts of evil people is found universally, Even Judas who was hand picked by Jesus did wrong.

You need to focus on the teaching, Where does Catholicism teach Kill others?

Whereas I can point to Teachings of Martin Luther for example......calling it a SIN if YOU DON'T kill Jews.

Nope, he wouldn't. But, that era, other than Anabaptists, was clueless about separation of church and state.

 

[utilyan]

So...no scripture that confirms any of those teachings...just tradition...

Yes plenty of scripture.

You have pslamists praying to the dead, calling all beings in heaven to praise God.

Example of Relics

Acts 19
11God was performing extraordinary miracles by the hands of Paul, 12so that handkerchiefs or aprons were even carried from his body to the sick, and the diseases left them and the evil spirits went out.

We challenge you to give us the teaching of SOLA SCRIPTURA. ---> No scripture.....just tradition......

If you can't fix your fake teaching first how you figure you fake teaching applies to me?

 

[utilyan]

Nope, he wouldn't. But, that era, other than Anabaptists, was clueless about separation of church and state.

Anabaptist don't believe in Faith Alone. The only thing in common with baptist is the rebaptized.

Calvin believe in infant baptism and he had no problem even killing his own friend over it.

Michael Servetus - Wikipedia
Michael Servetus
click that link and learn about Michael Servetus.

Calvin would have all of us killed in a heartbeat.

 

[Particular]

Yes plenty of scripture.

You have pslamists praying to the dead, calling all beings in heaven to praise God.

Example of Relics

Acts 19
11God was performing extraordinary miracles by the hands of Paul, 12so that handkerchiefs or aprons were even carried from his body to the sick, and the diseases left them and the evil spirits went out.

We challenge you to give us the teaching of SOLA SCRIPTURA. ---> No scripture.....just tradition......

If you can't fix your fake teaching first how you figure you fake teaching applies to me?

You mean you don't accept 2 Timothy 3:16,17?

All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, equipped for every good work.

So there is sola scriptura.

Now, where does scripture say, "The Church at Rome is the sole authority and its traditions are equal to God and God's word."?

I see your church as being another variation of Pharisaical Judaism, filled with legalism, ceremony and tradition, but void of the Spirit of God.

 

[Particular]

Anabaptist don't believe in Faith Alone. The only thing in common with baptist is the rebaptized.

Calvin believe in infant baptism and he had no problem even killing his own friend over it.

Michael Servetus - Wikipedia
Michael Servetus
click that link and learn about Michael Servetus.

Calvin would have all of us killed in a heartbeat.

Tell that to Nazarenes, Weslyans and Mennonites.

As for Calvin, I don't hold him in as high esteem as you seem to imagine. He got soteriology correct. He failed to accept separation of church and state. He may have ordered the death of Servatus. The Lutherans and Catholics ordered the butchering of Anabaptists. All of that was because of political connection that needed to be rooted out.
I am thrilled that Baptists in the US were guided by God to push for and get separation of church and state.

 

[Oseas3]

You can find the word of God in scripture, scripture is not the word of God.

You know not the Word of God, neither the Word of God has place in your heart. You know only and only the letter of Scriptures. The letter kills, but the Spirit gives life, God is Spirit.

Yeah, you know only and only the letter of Scriptures. The letter kills, you are a killer, a killer of souls. You are lost. JESUS left it clearly revealed: "Fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell". You are lost.


What prevails is the Word of God. The Word is God.
1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, 2 Hath in these last days (last TWO DAYS or last two thousand years) spoken unto us by His Son, whom He hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also He made the worlds;
3 Who being the brightness of His glory, and the EXPRESS IMAGE of His person, and upholding all things by the word of His power, when He had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high.

The Psalmist did say: Thy Word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path. Through thy precepts I get understanding: therefore I hate every false way. The wicked have waited for me to destroy me: but I will consider thy testimonies.
Thou through thy commandments hast made me wiser than mine enemies: for they are ever with me.

Yeah, you know only and only the letter of Scriptures. The letter kills, you are a killer, a killer of souls.

You are lost. JESUS left it clearly revealed: "Fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell". You are lost.

 

[utilyan]

You mean you don't accept 2 Timothy 3:16,17?

All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, equipped for every good work.

So there is sola scriptura.

Now, where does scripture say, "The Church at Rome is the sole authority and its traditions are equal to God and God's word."?

I see your church as being another variation of Pharisaical Judaism, filled with legalism, ceremony and tradition, but void of the Spirit of God.

Pharisees are bigoted and xenophobic against all other faiths just like you.

They believe they are the only chosen ones.......Just like you.


"All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, equipped for every good work."


The very BEST verse FOR SOLA SCRIPTURA, Is in the OLD testament Kings. And it still doesn't authorize it.

I think you should present your verse to someone with a 5th grade reading level.

Nothing claims it being final or sole rule of authority.

Maybe you have a friend with a English major and they can read it for you..

 

[Adonia]

You mean you don't accept 2 Timothy 3:16,17?

You mean you don't accept Matt 18:17?

17 If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church. And if he refuses to listen even to the church, regard him as you would a pagan or a tax collector. 18Truly I tell you, whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven.…

Yes, is to the Church we are to go to. The organization that was established here on earth. It was started by Jesus, who turned it over to the Apostles, who in turn turned it over to their successors, you know those pesky Bishops (Early Church Fathers) who recognized the primacy of the Bishop of Rome and so it went right up until today. (Hint - there wasn't a Baptist among them, they were all Catholics to the core, teaching the basic truths of Christian orthodoxy)

 

[Oseas3]

What prevails is the Word of God. The Word is God.

The KING and LORD, the Almighty JESUS, the God of the true Christians, warned:

There shall be upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea -peoples, nations, multitudes and tongues - and the waves roaring (flying into a rage); Men's hearts failing them for fear (they will faint), and for looking after the things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken. This generation shall not pass away, till all be fulfilled. As a snare shall it come on all them that dwell on the face of the whole earth.

Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away, says the KING of the kings and LORD of the lords.

The true believers or true Christians must watch therefore, and pray always, that all may be accounted worthy to ESCAPE all these things that will come to pass (day after day and from now on), and to stand before the Son of man.

When these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh. The Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty messengers In flaming fire, taking vengeance on them
that know not God, and that obey not His gospel. Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power.

And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.

 

[atpollard]

John Calvin would have burned everyone here at the stake including me and you.

A half truth. Technically, Calvin would have argued theology with us and attempted to convince us of our errors. If we refused to recant our scriptural error, then John would not have opposed the Civil Courts executing the Civil penalty under law ... but he would have argued for a more merciful execution than burning.

You need to focus on the teaching, Where does Catholicism teach Kill others?

Where does catechism teach to shuffle pedophile Priests to new congregations to avoid prosecution, yet it still happens on a large scale to the misery of many parishioners. (PS. Protestant Churches are not immune to the monsters in our ranks, you just mentioned things that happen that were not in the Catechism and that is a 'current events' example.)

Whereas I can point to Teachings of Martin Luther for example......calling it a SIN if YOU DON'T kill Jews.

While an embarrassment for Martin, personally, That is not part of the Book of Concord ... the "Catechism" for the Lutheran denomination.

[John 13:6-8 NIV] 6 He came to Simon Peter, who said to him, "Lord, are you going to wash my feet?" 7 Jesus replied, "You do not realize now what I am doing, but later you will understand." 8 "No," said Peter, "you shall never wash my feet." Jesus answered, "Unless I wash you, you have no part with me."​

Even Peter (the first Pope?) said stupid things sometimes.

 

[Walpole]

You mean you don't accept 2 Timothy 3:16,17?

All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, equipped for every good work.

So there is sola scriptura.

Now, where does scripture say, "The Church at Rome is the sole authority and its traditions are equal to God and God's word."?

I see your church as being another variation of Pharisaical Judaism, filled with legalism, ceremony and tradition, but void of the Spirit of God.

2 Timothy 3:16-17 --> "All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, equipped for every good work."


"Sola Scriptura" = ONLY Scripture
(Source: Latin Dictionary and Grammar Aid)

Only: without others or anything further; alone; solely; exclusively
(Source: Definition of only | Dictionary.com)



2 Timothy 3:16 --> "ALL Scripture" ≠ "ONLY Scripture"

 

[Oseas3]

2 Timothy 3:16-17 --> "All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, equipped for every good work."

"Sola Scriptura" = ONLY Scripture
(Source: Latin Dictionary and Grammar Aid)

Only: without others or anything further; alone; solely; exclusively
(Source: Definition of only | Dictionary.com)

2 Timothy 3:16 --> "ALL Scripture" ≠ "ONLY Scripture"

Speaking of the Scriptures, this is what the Scripture says: Behold, I lay in Sion a chief corner stone, elect, precious: and he that believeth on Him shall not be confounded. Aleluiaaaaa!

Therefore, unto them which believe, He is precious: but unto them which be disobedient, the stone which the builders disallowed, the same is made the head of the corner, and a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the Word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed.

Jesus said to the Jews: Did ye never read in the Scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes?

Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof. And whosoever shall fall on this stone shall be broken: but on whomsoever it shall fall, it will grind him to powder.

The Word is God. Great mystery. Well, God is Spirit.

JESUS said: no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal Him.

Therefore, who knows the invisible Father, the Word?

 

[Particular]

You mean you don't accept Matt 18:17?

17 If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church. And if he refuses to listen even to the church, regard him as you would a pagan or a tax collector. 18Truly I tell you, whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven.…

Yes, is to the Church we are to go to. The organization that was established here on earth. It was started by Jesus, who turned it over to the Apostles, who in turn turned it over to their successors, you know those pesky Bishops (Early Church Fathers) who recognized the primacy of the Bishop of Rome and so it went right up until today. (Hint - there wasn't a Baptist among them, they were all Catholics to the core, teaching the basic truths of Christian orthodoxy)

I agree with it entirely when dealing with local church discipline.

Where does Jesus tell us to burn people at the stake, boil them in oil or cast them onto spikes? All three were done by the Roman Church as well as much more. Ultimately the Roman Church leaders have often been puppets of the devil.

Matthew 18:15-20 “If your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault, between you and him alone. If he listens to you, you have gained your brother. But if he does not listen, take one or two others along with you, that every charge may be established by the evidence of two or three witnesses. If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church. And if he refuses to listen even to the church, let him be to you as a Gentile and a tax collector. Truly, I say to you, whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosedin heaven. Again I say to you, if two of you agree on earth about anything they ask, it will be done for them by my Father in heaven. For where two or three are gathered in my name, there am I among them.”

 

[atpollard]

Speaking of the Scriptures, this is what the Scripture says: Behold, I lay in Sion a chief corner stone, elect, precious: and he that believeth on Him shall not be confounded. Aleluiaaaaa!

Scripture says more than one thing about that stone God laid in Zion.

[Romans 9:33 NASB] 33 just as it is written, "BEHOLD, I LAY IN ZION A STONE OF STUMBLING AND A ROCK OF OFFENSE, AND HE WHO BELIEVES IN HIM WILL NOT BE DISAPPOINTED."

[1 Peter 2:6 NASB] 6 For [this] is contained in Scripture: "BEHOLD, I LAY IN ZION A CHOICE STONE, A PRECIOUS CORNER [stone,] AND HE WHO BELIEVES IN HIM WILL NOT BE DISAPPOINTED."

Since both NT verses are quoting OT verses, we should look to the OT verses as the Bereans would have ...

[Isaiah 8:11-15 NASB] 11 For thus the LORD spoke to me with mighty power and instructed me not to walk in the way of this people, saying, 12 "You are not to say, '[It is] a conspiracy!' In regard to all that this people call a conspiracy, And you are not to fear what they fear or be in dread of [it.] 13 "It is the LORD of hosts whom you should regard as holy. And He shall be your fear, And He shall be your dread. 14 "Then He shall become a sanctuary; But to both the houses of Israel, a stone to strike and a rock to stumble over, [And] a snare and a trap for the inhabitants of Jerusalem. 15 "Many will stumble over them, Then they will fall and be broken; They will even be snared and caught."

[Isaiah 28:14-22 NASB] 14 Therefore, hear the word of the LORD, O scoffers, Who rule this people who are in Jerusalem, 15 Because you have said, "We have made a covenant with death, And with Sheol we have made a pact. The overwhelming scourge will not reach us when it passes by, For we have made falsehood our refuge and we have concealed ourselves with deception." 16 Therefore thus says the Lord GOD, "Behold, I am laying in Zion a stone, a tested stone, A costly cornerstone [for] the foundation, firmly placed. He who believes [in it] will not be disturbed. 17 "I will make justice the measuring line And righteousness the level; Then hail will sweep away the refuge of lies And the waters will overflow the secret place. 18 "Your covenant with death will be canceled, And your pact with Sheol will not stand; When the overwhelming scourge passes through, Then you become its trampling [place.] 19 "As often as it passes through, it will seize you; For morning after morning it will pass through, [anytime] during the day or night, And it will be sheer terror to understand what it means." 20 The bed is too short on which to stretch out, And the blanket is too small to wrap oneself in. 21 For the LORD will rise up as [at] Mount Perazim, He will be stirred up as in the valley of Gibeon, To do His task, His unusual task, And to work His work, His extraordinary work. 22 And now do not carry on as scoffers, Or your fetters will be made stronger; For I have heard from the Lord GOD of hosts Of decisive destruction on all the earth.