Catholic Bashing Threads/Posts

[Darron Steele]

...

Sharing the difference between what these groups teach and the scriptures is not being "unloving". It is being very loving.

Mike

Like Eliyahu, you seem to be dodging the issue.

It is not the objecting to the religious tenets that is the problem.

It is the HOW that is the problem!

You want to talk about additions to Scripture? How about this `Thou art free to do as thou seest fit when thou art opposing religious error. Thou mayest disregard all my teachings.'

That is not in my Bible.

 

[Darron Steele]

Darron,



And I havent seen anyone here as extreme as Christ, including myself. My point was not that we should be *precisely* as sharp as He was in that passage, only that we are called to speak the truth, in love. ...

It is the "in love" part that seems to be ignored by you, and by others.

Some of you seem to revel in making unneeded personal remarks about Catholics that are above and beyond criticizing their religious tenets.

 

[Eliyahu]

Darron,

As I pointed above, you never presented clear and straightforward condemnation against what is wrong, but try to compromise with the evil.
Telling what is wrong is wrong, is bashing someone unjustly?

If you were really against the evil paganism clearly I would pay much more attention to your advice.

 

[Eliyahu]

Darron,

Do you want to discuss the followings here?

You can comment on these:

- Salvation by Grace + Works
- Salvation by baptism ( Baptismal Regeneration)
- Infant Baptism ( Unbelievers Baptism bringing the unbelievers into the church)
- Baptism by sprinkling ( Pagan holy water dropped on the forehead) which doesn’t teach the burial of old person and resurrection with Jesus Christ.
- Idol making for Mary or Joseph or Jesus
- Idol worshipping for those statues
- Immaculate Conception of Mary
- Perpetual Virginity of Mary
- Assumption : Ascension of Mary
- Theotokos : calling Mary Mother of God, meaning God the Son of Mary.
- Mary as Mother of Church
- Queen of Heaven
Holy Mother Mary
- Clergy system with hierarchy
- Obligatory Celibacy
- Confession to the Priests
- Papacy
- Papal infallibility
- Whorish Tradition of so-called holy tradition
- No Salvation outside Roman Catholic Church
- Purgatory
- Limbo
- Mass which is ever asking forgiveness of the sins without bringing the Gospel that such sins were already forgiven at the Cross.
- Transubstantiation ( Magic performance by Catholic Priests)
- Extreme Unction after death
- Prayer to the Dead
- Prayer thru the Dead
-Prayer for the Dead
- Prayer to Mary
-Pray with Rosario
- all the signs of pagan origin such as ankh cross, mark of IHS, threefold hats for the pope, etc.
- Chemarim costumes ( Black costumes used for Idol worshipping priests)
- Crusade
- Inquisition
- Indulgence
- Proxy wars caused by Catholics and Vatican

YOu can discuss these issues as well but then will it not be bashing the Catholics? If yes, let's do it !

 

[Darron Steele]

major difference between Paul and you:
1) Paul made it expressly clear that he loved and cared about the Galatians, but
2) your posts about Catholics do not reflect the same attitude -- in fact,

Here you revealed a great ignorance and misunderstanding about the differences.
Galatians : Did they ever call Mary the Mother of God? Did they make statues and worship them? Did they ever claim the Purgatory? Did they have a Papacy? Did they have the Mass ( Sacrifice) ? Did they baptise the infants? Did they kill the Christians by condemning them as heretics? Did they hold the Inquisition? did they sell the Indulgence?
Galatians were indulged in the legalism ! But they were born again by the Holy Spirit, thereafter they returned to the Legalism ( Gal 3:1-6)

Roman Catholic is totally paganism, which is far away from the Christian Truth ! This is the absolute difference ! Roman Catholic has been the enemy of God throughout the history ! Millions of True Chrstians were killed by them, and many True Christians believed the Popes are the antichrists and the Anti-Christ will come in the form of Pope.
Even today, RCC persecutes the Christian missionaries in South America and in many other places, and they are preparing for the Great Tribulation ! You are overlooking or underestimating their harmfulness very much !

No, really, there are differences.

As relevant to this thread, however, there are none. When I posted that, it was in reply to you quoting Galatians 4:16 "So then am I become your enemy, by telling you the truth?" (ASV). In the epistle to the Galatians, Paul makes it very clear that he cares about the Galatians.

You, on the other hand, make it clear that you do not care anything about the Catholics. If you do, I do not see it. You seem to revel in coming up with `colorful' ways to describe them.

I have read those portion of Bible enough, and in my actual life I am practising the belief and teachings by Christ. But I notice many fake Christians are emphasizing the Love and Tolerance etc, flattering to the Roman Catholics because they are many !

Actually, no; we do not emphasize them -- we practice them.

In dealing with Catholics, you do not.

Emphasizing a command of Jesus Christ is better than wantonly disobeying it.

They often pretend to have mercy to the people and to strictly follow the teachings of the Bible, but in fact they kiss the paganism ...

Oh please.

Scripture never says that in hating a religious error, we are to hate the people deceived by it.

Conviction against falsehood is not shown by hatred of people. Quite the contrary.

In fact, Christ's teachings at Luke 6:35 and Matthew 5:44 are the exact opposite: we are even to love people who hate us personally!

I will live out the teachings of Scripture. In so doing, I am not "flattering" Catholics. In so doing, I being a simple follower of Jesus Christ, obeying what He told me to do.

Evidently, you believe following Christ's teachings is wrong if it is not convenient to your hatreds.

 

[Darron Steele]

Darron,

Do you want to discuss the followings here?

You can comment on these:

- Salvation by Grace + Works
- Salvation by baptism ( Baptismal Regeneration)

One is Scripturally right, per Ephesians 2:8-10, and the other wrong. Any Scriptures used to back `salvation by completed baptism' are rightly inferred in other ways.

- Infant Baptism ( Unbelievers Baptism bringing the unbelievers into the church)
- Baptism by sprinkling ( Pagan holy water dropped on the forehead) which doesn’t teach the burial of old person and resurrection with Jesus Christ.

Contrary to Scripture.

The Greek word translated "baptism" means to immerse. Baptism of non-Christians is never exampled in Scripture. 1 Peter 3:21 teaches that baptism represents "an appeal to God for a good conscience" (NASB).

- Idol making for Mary or Joseph or Jesus
- Idol worshipping for those statues

Because an idol is designed to represent a god, and Mary and Joseph are not held to be gods, any graven image of them is not an idol.

This is not to favor Catholicism, but simply to be fair.

Now, religious servitude to graven images is contrary to Exodus 20.

- Immaculate Conception of Mary
- Perpetual Virginity of Mary
- Assumption : Ascension of Mary
- Theotokos : calling Mary Mother of God, meaning God the Son of Mary.
- Mary as Mother of Church
- Queen of Heaven
Holy Mother Mary
- Clergy system with hierarchy

No merit to these in Scripture.

- Obligatory Celibacy
- Confession to the Priests
- Papacy
- Papal infallibility

No merit to these in Scripture.

The only case of a person seeking preeminence in the church is condemned in 3 John.

- Whorish Tradition of so-called holy tradition

The crude word was unnecessary.

There is no merit to adding "Tradition" as an equal authority to Scripture. 2 Timothy 3:15-7 indicates that Scripture is enough.

- No Salvation outside Roman Catholic Church

At present, Roman Catholicism no longer teaches that. That is clear from Lumen Gentium and the current Catechism of the Catholic Church, as well as ordinary conversations with Catholics.

- Purgatory
- Limbo
- Mass which is ever asking forgiveness of the sins without bringing the Gospel that such sins were already forgiven at the Cross.
- Transubstantiation ( Magic performance by Catholic Priests)
- Extreme Unction after death
- Prayer to the Dead
- Prayer thru the Dead
-Prayer for the Dead
- Prayer to Mary
-Pray with Rosario

No merit to these from Scripture.

- all the signs of pagan origin such as ankh cross, mark of IHS, threefold hats for the pope, etc.
- Chemarim costumes ...

No merit to these from Scripture.

If they were really picked up from ancient pagan religions, the Vatican should discard them.

- Crusade
- Inquisition
- Indulgence
- Proxy wars caused by Catholics and Vatican

Contrary to Scripture, but still no excuse for modern Christians to hate modern Catholics.

------------------------------------------

YOu can discuss these issues as well but then will it not be bashing the Catholics? If yes, let's do it !

In expressing my religious views, and criticizing the errors of Catholicism, I did not use any emotionally-charged words. I did not throw in an unpleasant `colorful' adjective or description that was not relevant. I did not try to accuse them of a practice they to not do, or a belief they do not have. I also did not make one personally nasty statement about Catholics as people.

 

[Darron Steele]

[ Accidental duplicate deleted by me. ]

 

[standingfirminChrist]

2 Timothy 4:1-5 I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom; Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine. For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables. But watch thou in all things, endure afflictions, do the work of an evangelist, make full proof of thy ministry.

We are to preach the truth to people no matter how much it hurts their feelings. Preaching by rebuke is not hatred if it is the truth.

 

[Darron Steele]

2 Timothy 4:1-5 I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom; Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine. For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables. But watch thou in all things, endure afflictions, do the work of an evangelist, make full proof of thy ministry.

We are to preach the truth to people no matter how much it hurts their feelings. Preaching by rebuke is not hatred if it is the truth.

Correct -- if the rebukes are true, are necessary, and done out of love.

Ephesians 4:15 has "but speaking truth in love" (ASV). One cannot ignore that last part, as many seem to do here.

Hatred, on the other hand, is an emotion. If you are speaking the truth motivated by hatred, it does not remove the emotion -- you still sin.

 

[Eliyahu]

One is Scripturally right, per Ephesians 2:8-10, and the other wrong. Any Scriptures used to back `salvation by completed baptism' are rightly inferred in other ways.

You have to clarify this. If you say that the Water Baptism brings the Salvation, you are wrong, and the Baptismal Regeneration as such is wrong !

Because an idol is designed to represent a god, and Mary and Joseph are not held to be gods, any graven image of them is not an idol.

You are deceived by Catholicism. RCC considers Mary more than God. She is Mother of God ! You should count how many times they call for Holy Mother Mary when they pray, when they call for. How many times Hail Mary !

There is no merit to adding "Tradition" as an equal authority to Scripture. 2 Timothy 3:15-7 indicates that Scripture is enough.At present, Roman Catholicism no longer teaches that. That is clear from Lumen Gentium and the current Catechism of the Catholic Church, as well as ordinary conversations with Catholics.

You are claiming that Satan is evolving !, which is untrue ! They teach the same Tradition ! This is why there is another Thread running on the Tradition even here !

If they were really picked up from ancient pagan religions, the Vatican should discard them.

Have you ever struggled with them?

Contrary to Scripture, but still no excuse for modern Christians to hate modern Catholics.

Have they ever admitted their sins and crimes honestly so that the people may know how much horrible and cruel their inquistions and persecutions against another Christians were? How many people on this world know about the Inquisition, Crusade, RCC's killings of many Christians such as Albigenes, Waldensians, Donatists,Bogomils, etc? Let's say they still condemn them as Heretics. If they were found Heretics, should they have to be tortured and killed?
The final question is if Pope did acknowledge and admit their cruelties and murders? If they admitted, RCC should have been decomposed. They cannot exist any longer !

In expressing my religious views, and criticizing the errors of Catholicism, I did not use any emotionally-charged words. I did not throw in an unpleasant `colorful' adjective or description that was not relevant. I did not try to accuse them of a practice they to not do, or a belief they do not have. I also did not make one personally nasty statement about Catholics as people.

You are still expressing your unpleasant feelings. Don't pretend to be otherwise. If you disagree with my judgment, then, What are you talking about me? I have noticed such person claiming the loving-kindness quickly condemned me that I have chosen to be foolish ! What a contrast ! God is my witness there ! Ridiculous hypocrisy and hypocrites are condemning the men of God all the time when they fight the paganism !

Try to rebuke the paganism in your loving-kindness, please. Then I don't even need to fight them here any more !
Remember this. What did Moses do when he noticed Israel made the idol of golden calf? Did we kill any Catholics here? or What did we do against them? Telling the truth that RCC killed many Christians is bashing the Holy church, and therefore should be prohibited?
Do you think you will get the Award from God as you showed mercy and grace to the Idol worshippers? Have you ever seen that the Idol worshippers admit that they are worshipping Idols? Who did that? Even you do not recognize Idolatry as Idolatry, which is the big problem in the discussion now.

 

[Eliyahu]

Darron,

YOu mentioned that RCC does not teach that There is no Salvation outside the Holy Roman Catholic Church.

However, even in this year, in JUly the Pope Benedict 16 announced it as follows:

Pope reasserts that other Christian denominations are not true churches

​

at 12:42 on July 10, 2007, EST.
By NICOLE WINFIELD

LORENZAGO DI CADORE, Italy (AP) - Pope Benedict has reasserted the universal primacy of the Roman Catholic Church, approving a document released Tuesday that says Orthodox churches are defective and that other Christian denominations are not true churches.
Benedict approved a document from his old offices at the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith that restates church teaching on relations with other Christians.
It was the second time in a week that the Pope has corrected what he says are erroneous interpretations of the Second Vatican Council, the 1962-65 meetings that modernized the church..

[FONT=바탕] [/FONT]
[FONT=바탕] [/FONT]
It was reported by many News media. However, when I tried to retrieve it today, they were all removed ! Even from CNN it was removed. I guess it was removed at the request of Vatican because they realized it caused some bad impression about them. Strategically they have retreated for awhile.

Can you see how RCC is working hard thru the news media?

How can the Infallible Pope are changing their stance from time to time? Can we trust them?

 

[Eliyahu]

Darron,

YOu said RCC doesn't teach that NO Salvation outside the Holy Roman Catholic Church at present. Does it mean that they may teach and coerce it again in the future?

Read the followings:

Pius iX 1854
it must be held by faith that outside the Apostolic Roman Church, no one can be saved; that this is the only ark of salvation;

http://www.geocities.com/orthopapism/eens_papal.html

If you check the site, during the past thousand years, RCC always claimed it and even in July this year, they confirmed the same stance. Will they not repeat the same in the future when the world atmosphere is changed?

 

[mrtumnus]

Darron,

YOu mentioned that RCC does not teach that There is no Salvation outside the Holy Roman Catholic Church.

However, even in this year, in JUly the Pope Benedict 16 announced it as follows:

Pope reasserts that other Christian denominations are not true churches

​

at 12:42 on July 10, 2007, EST.
By NICOLE WINFIELD

LORENZAGO DI CADORE, Italy (AP) - Pope Benedict has reasserted the universal primacy of the Roman Catholic Church, approving a document released Tuesday that says Orthodox churches are defective and that other Christian denominations are not true churches.
Benedict approved a document from his old offices at the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith that restates church teaching on relations with other Christians.
It was the second time in a week that the Pope has corrected what he says are erroneous interpretations of the Second Vatican Council, the 1962-65 meetings that modernized the church..

[FONT=바탕] [/FONT]
[FONT=바탕] [/FONT]
It was reported by many News media. However, when I tried to retrieve it today, they were all removed ! Even from CNN it was removed. I guess it was removed at the request of Vatican because they realized it caused some bad impression about them. Strategically they have retreated for awhile.

Can you see how RCC is working hard thru the news media?

How can the Infallible Pope are changing their stance from time to time? Can we trust them?

I hate to break up your Vatican conspiracy theory, but don't you think they would have had the Catholic sites remove it too?

Here's a link for you:
http://www.ewtn.com/vnews/getstory.asp?number=80675

Please note this part:

"It is possible, according to Catholic doctrine, to affirm correctly that the Church of Christ is present and operative in the churches and ecclesial Communities not yet fully in communion with the Catholic Church, on account of the elements of sanctification and truth that are present in them.

 

[Eliyahu]

I don't hink they have changed but they may have retreated strategically for moment.

http://www.cbc.ca/world/story/2007/07/10/vatican-church.html

 

[standingfirminChrist]

Correct -- if the rebukes are true, are necessary, and done out of love.

Ephesians 4:15 has "but speaking truth in love" (ASV). One cannot ignore that last part, as many seem to do here.

Hatred, on the other hand, is an emotion. If you are speaking the truth motivated by hatred, it does not remove the emotion -- you still sin.

If we have no hatred for sin, there will be no rebuke for sin. We must hate the sin enough, and love the Lord enough to teach the one in that sin that he or she is living contrary to the Word of God.

Hating the sin is not hating the sinner.

 

[mrtumnus]

If we have no hatred for sin, there will be no rebuke for sin. We must hate the sin enough, and love the Lord enough to teach the one in that sin that he or she is living contrary to the Word of God.

Hating the sin is not hating the sinner.

As per Mahatma Ghandi. I always find it interesting when I see Christians quoting him.

 

[standingfirminChrist]

I did not quote Mahatma Ghandi. I have never heard Ghandi speak, nor have I read any of his writings.

 

[standingfirminChrist]

Searching the internet for quotes by Ghandi, I happened upon this...

"Hate the sin, love the sinner"

That is not what I said in my post above. I said "We must hate the sin enough, and love the Lord enough to teach the one in that sin that he or she is living contrary to the Word of God."

It is our love for the Lord that compels us to rebuke, reprove, correct, and instruct the one who is in sin.

 

[Linda64]

Fullness Of Salvation Only Through The Catholic Church

The Second Vatican Council's Decree on Ecumenism explains: "For it is through Christ's Catholic Church alone, which is the universal help toward salvation, that the fullness of the means of salvation can be obtained. It was to the apostolic college alone, of which Peter is the head, that we believe that our Lord entrusted all the blessings of the New Covenant, in order to establish on earth the one Body of Christ into which all those should be fully incorporated who belong in any way to the People of God."

846 Basing itself on Scripture and Tradition, the Council teaches that the Church, a pilgrim now on earth, is necessary for salvation ... thereby affirmed at the same time the necessity of the Church which men enter through Baptism as through a door. Hence they could not be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse either to enter it or to remain in it.

Fullness Of Salvation Only Through The Catholic Church

 

[Darron Steele]

You have to clarify this. If you say that the Water Baptism brings the Salvation, you are wrong, and the Baptismal Regeneration as such is wrong !


You are deceived by Catholicism. RCC considers Mary more than God. She is Mother of God ! You should count how many times they call for Holy Mother Mary when they pray, when they call for. How many times Hail Mary !

Nonsense.

I know what Catholics believe because I actually read their materials and talk to them.

You are claiming that Satan is evolving !,

Creative, but untrue.

Have they ever admitted their sins and crimes honestly so that the people may know how much horrible and cruel their inquistions and persecutions against another Christians were? How many people on this world know about the Inquisition, Crusade, RCC's killings of many Christians such as Albigenes, Waldensians, Donatists,Bogomils, etc? Let's say they still condemn them as Heretics. If they were found Heretics, should they have to be tortured and killed?...

I still do not see why that means modern Christians should hate modern Catholics personally.

Again, I refer to the teachings of Christ at Matthew 5:44 and Luke 6:35.

...
Try to rebuke the paganism in your loving-kindness, please. Then I don't even need to fight them here any more !
Remember this. What did Moses do when he noticed Israel made the idol of golden calf?

Got angry. Then GOD killed the idolaters.

Moses did not. Some things should be left to the justice of God.

Did we kill any Catholics here? or What did we do against them?

What have you done? That has been repeated numerous times, but you for some reason want to talk about but these REAL issues.

1) You condemn them for beliefs that they do not even have,
2) You condemn them for practices they do not do,
3) You malign them personally in every way that you can envision,
4) You show no evidence whatsoever that you care anything about them.

Telling the truth that RCC killed many Christians is bashing the Holy church, and therefore should be prohibited?

That would simply be stating a true fact.

However, as you know, you go well beyond that. You seem to hold every Catholic of the present time responsible for it.

Further, you do the above deeds.

Do you think you will get the Award from God as you showed mercy and grace to the ...?

You mean do I believe Jesus Christ when He said at Matthew 5:7 "Blessed are the merciful, for they shall obtain mercy" (ASV).

Absolutely.