Catholic Who Embraced Jesus As Lord And Savior

[37818]

Hebrews 13:10 "We have an altar, whereof they have no right to eat which serve the tabernacle" . "But the main thing to be laid hold of here is, I take it, that the central fact of Christianity is an altar, on which lies a sacrifice".

(A commentary on Hebrews 13:10 McClarens Expositions - Bible Hub)

If you do not believe that Christians have an altar, then you have a serious theological problem.

Our altar is the Lord Jesus Christ Himself, who is at the right hand of God as our highpriest (Hebrews 13:9-16; Romans 12:1). There is no physical alter in any church, the church being those of us who are the body of Christ, our alter is Christ Himself at the right hand of God. The church of our God is not any physical building.

 

[Jordan Kurecki]

Yes, His Body was broken and Given to us as an offering to God. His blood was poured out and is the new covenant of those who receive Him. Then He said, "Do this in remembrance of Me." He was giving object lessons, as He has so courteously done for His contemporary disciples as well as for us today. No where in any of the passages does it demand we take a literal understanding that Jesus is in the Bread or Wine. There are other passages that would relate to how we understand the bread and wine...

FOR EXAMPLE

Jesus says He IS the vine. Is Jesus a literal Grape Vine????? In order for you to stay consistent your answer would have to be yes, Jesus is a literal vine. But that is ridiculous. He is "likening" himself to a vine.

ANOTHER EXAMPLE

Jesus says He IS the door. Is Jesus a literal door?

LAST ONE

In Revelation, Jesus is Called in Revelation 5:5 The Lion from the Tribe of Judah. Is Jesus a literal Lion?

Transubstantiation is a Spirit-less interpretation devoid of any healthy understanding of the Word of God.

AMEN.

 

[Jordan Kurecki]

1 John 5:10-13
[10] He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son. [11] And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. [12] He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.
[13] These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

I KNOW I have eternal life. Catholicism cannot give anyone assurance so that they know thay they have eternal life. Abandon Catholicism and Believe the Gospel, Jesus died for your sins, was buried and rose again. If you believe that and trust in that then you have eternal life. God does not have alzheimers, he said believe twice in vs 13 because he knew people would invariably put the emphasis on the wrong place for salvation. Its
Not faith plus works, because youd still never KNOW you have eternal life because how would you know you had enough works? The only way someone could truly KNOW they have eternal life is if salvation is by faith ALONE. Repent and trust in Christ alone.

 

[John Yurich]

YES, it is his business.
Besides, why are people afraid to announce church membership?
I let people know - not out of pride - but because I want to encourage people to come.

So if a friend of yours wants to go to church - how would you handle it?
Take him to the RCC or to the Baptist church?

Actually I did tell my Baptist Pastor that I would not be attending Christmas Eve Service at my Baptist Church because I would be attending Christmas Eve Mass at the local Catholic parish. My Baptist Pastor did not state that I should not attend Mass. If I had a friend that wanted to attend church I would invite him to the local Catholic parish on Saturday then invite him to the local Baptist Church on Sunday morning.

 

[Adonia]

Our altar is the Lord Jesus Christ Himself, who is at the right hand of God as our highpriest (Hebrews 13:9-16; Romans 12:1). There is no physical alter in any church, the church being those of us who are the body of Christ, our alter is Christ Himself at the right hand of God. The church of our God is not any physical building.

I quoted from a non-Catholic source. This is exactly what happens in non-orthodox Christian circles, you folks are all over the place.

There is nothing wrong with having the table of Our Lord in places of worship. It is in fact exactly what the earliest Christians had in their churches, as our friend Walter rightly pointed are found in the ruined edifices from those early years. We have not strayed from the original faith and how it was practiced, you have.

 

[Adonia]

A once and for all scarifice for all sins (John 19:30; 1 John 2:2; Hebrews 10:10; Hebrews 10:17-18). So there is abolutely no more sacrifice for sins.

Who says otherwise? Because orthodox Christianity certainly doesn't.

 

[Adonia]

Actually I did tell my Baptist Pastor that I would not be attending Christmas Eve Service at my Baptist Church because I would be attending Christmas Eve Mass at the local Catholic parish. My Baptist Pastor did not state that I should not attend Mass. If I had a friend that wanted to attend church I would invite him to the local Catholic parish on Saturday then invite him to the local Baptist Church on Sunday morning.

Okay, it's time for you to square away the different teachings of the Holy Eucharist between the three faith traditions you mentioned and tell us your true belief concerning this issue.

1. Orthodox Christianity (Catholic and Eastern Orthodox) says His "Real Presence" is contained therein.
2. In the Lutheran version of Christianity, some branches believe in the "Real Presence" while other branches see it as a mere symbol.
3. Baptists teach it is a mere symbol.

Okay brother, where do you come down on all of this?

 

[Walter]

Okay, it's time for you to square away the different teachings of the Holy Eucharist between the three faith traditions you mentioned and tell us your true belief concerning this issue.

1. Orthodox Christianity (Catholic and Eastern Orthodox) says His "Real Presence" is contained therein.
2. In the Lutheran version of Christianity, some branches believe in the "Real Presence" while other branches see it as a mere symbol.
3. Baptists teach it is a mere symbol.

Okay brother, where do you come down on all of this?

Personally, I know of no Lutheran synod that teaches the Eucharist is nothing more than a symbol. Even the ELCA still embraces the Real Presence. Most high church Lutheran congregations even keep consecrated elements of the Eucharist in a ambrey or tabernacle to take to the sick and home bound.

There may be some very liberal Episcopal churches that believe it is nothing more than a symbol, but then they don't think much about orthodoxy or biblical truth.

 

[Adonia]

Personally, I know of no Lutheran synod that teaches the Eucharist is nothing more than a symbol. Even the ELCA still embraces the Real Presence.

I can't remember where I read it, but I thought I did, so well then I stand corrected. I know my wife used to Lutheran and she said she was taught the Real Presence.

 

[37818]

I quoted from a non-Catholic source. This is exactly what happens in non-orthodox Christian circles, you folks are all over the place.

So are you saying the Christian New Testament is non-Catholic and non-orthodox? Hebrews 13:8-16. You cited Hebrews 13:10, ". . . We have an altar, . . ." And I understand the context to teach this to be Christ Himself.

There is nothing wrong with having the table of Our Lord in places of worship. It is in fact exactly what the earliest Christians had in their churches, as our friend Walter rightly pointed are found in the ruined edifices from those early years. We have not strayed from the original faith and how it was practiced, you have.

Believers are the church, and whom make up the churches. Buildings are not the church.

You had argued:

. . . His sacrifice on the altar . . .

 

[Squire Robertsson]

Six Hour Warning
This thread will be closed sometime after 9:30 PM Pacific.

 

[37818]

Your ignorance of the issue continues. The plain understanding of the text is this: "This IS my body" and "This IS my blood". Not my words, but Jesus's words. He said it and He meant I, the Apostles believed it, and the One Universal Christian Church has always taught it - from day one! Your contrary belief never came about until the 16th/17th century. But in the end this is easy, one just needs to have faith that this is so.

The following is my understanding:
In the Greek text for what Jesus had said without the Greek verb for a metaphor, "This my body" and "This my blood." then I would have to concede that Jesus said the bread and in the cup was His body and blood. But the Greek adds the verb indicating metaphor, just like "God is love" (1 John 4:8) or "God is light" (1 John 1:5). But "God [is] Spirit" (John 4:24) in the Greek the verb is not used, because that is what God is.

 

[Adonia]

So are you saying the Christian New Testament is non-Catholic and non-orthodox? Hebrews 13:8-16. You cited Hebrews 13:10, ". . . We have an altar, . . ." And I understand the context to teach this to be Christ Himself.

No, it's your interpretation of the Scriptures that is of a non-orthodox nature. Take the Eastern Orthodox Church for example, they basically believe the same way we do i.e., a teaching of Christianity that has at it's core the seven Sacraments - that's orthodox Christianity.

Your particular interpretation and resulting doctrines did not come about for some 1600 years, you folks even came up with a different take on things than the original "reformer" Martin Luther. Truth be told, your guy John Smythe was an ex Anglican priest.

 

[OfLivingWaters]

Please show me the altar in the New Testament.church.

Flee from Idolatry
(Exodus 20:22-23; Leviticus 19:1-8)

14Therefore, my beloved, flee from idolatry. 15I speak to reasonable people; judge for yourselves what I say. 16Is not the cup of blessing that we bless a participation in the blood of Christ? And is not the bread that we break a participation in the body of Christ? 17Because there is one loaf, we who are many are one body; for we all partake of the one loaf.

18Consider the people of Israel: Are not those who eat the sacrifices fellow partakers in the altar? 19Am I suggesting, then, that food sacrificed to an idol is anything, or that an idol is anything? 20No, but the sacrifices of pagans are offered to demons, not to God. And I do not want you to be participants with demons. 21You cannot drink the cup of the Lord and the cup of demons too; you cannot partake in the table of the Lord and the table of demons too. 22Are we trying to provoke the Lord to jealousy? Are we stronger than He?

The altar for believers is wherever we celebrate the the supper of the Lord. Christ makes an altar as such for believers.There are altars unto demons for those who practice idolatry and an altar unto God who practice the Christian sacrifice= the celebrating of the last supper in remembrance of Christ death until he returns.
Hebrews 13:10-14
10We have an (altar) from which those who serve at the tabernacle have no right to eat.


11Although the high priest brings the blood of animals into the Holy Place as a sacrifice for sin, the bodies are burned outside the camp. 12And that is why Jesus suffered outside the city gate, to sanctify the people by His own blood. 13Therefore let us go to Him outside the camp, bearing the disgrace He bore. 14For here we do not have a permanent city, but we are looking for the city that is to come.

The Christians had to worship outside of the Temple and therefore, their altar was set up wherever they would be or could find. But an altar was always part of the Hebraic Christian faith.

 

[Squire Robertsson]

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