Catholicism is not compatible with Christianity

[Melanie]

Well, there you go......I keep on praying and will let the good Lord sort it all out!

 

[Hark]

There are Catholics that know the way of salvation. That being the case they deliberately are leading people to hell. If you don't believe me start interacting with some of the remaining Catholics on this board. Some of them used to be Baptists. They know the way of salvation and yet teach Catholicism leading people deliberately to hell. That is proof enough.

If Catholics believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and that God raised Him from the dead, in according to His word which is a promise, they are saved even if Catholics do not believe the end result by believing in Him.

The foundation has been laid, but all that is being built on that foundation is wood, stubble, and hay; works that deny Him. The Catholic churches are not alone as a denomenation building religious works that deny Him.

The commitment to follow Christ and the Promise Keepers program has filtered through all denomenations leading many believers to religious bondages where they deny living by faith in Him as their Good Shepherd as the power in living the christian life.

So allot of believers are labouring not into that rest in Jesus Christ where they need His help to be set free to rest in Him.

Hebrews 4:1-16 at this link in the KJV

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Hebrews+4&version=KJV

Galatians 3:1 O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you? 2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? 3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?

Galatians 5:1Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage....5 For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.

 

[Yeshua1]

Lady in church gave a testimony of her son whom is becoming a member. She made it sound as if her faith and our faith as being one in the same. Praise the Lord I prayed for an opportunity to witness to her and that I did speaking on the doctrine of Justification by faith alone. She was ignorant of the Catholic faith but wanted to know about books. I said I would give her a Catholic tract but if she wanted a book Ron Rhodes has a good one in print.

If anyone knows any Catholics make sure to witness to them and do so if you pastor never confronts people of other faiths as being wrong and on their way to Hell. Do so in love.

There are saved catholics, saved by the grace of God apart from their wrong doctrines and teachings, but the church of rome teaches a false Gospel message!

 

[JonC]

There are saved catholics, saved by the grace of God apart from their wrong doctrines and teachings, but the church of rome teaches a false Gospel message!

If I understand you correctly, then you are saying that there are saved believers remain within a sinful and false religion. Does this principle extend to other lifestyles and sins as well?

And what I mean by this is, can a Mormon be saved yet still hold to the idea that Jesus and Satan are brothers and that they have the potential of becoming gods themselves? Or can this Catholic believer be saved yet look to the Church for that salvation and a priest to mediate for his sins? Or can a drunkard, or an adulterer be saved yet remain living that sinful lifestyle? I guess what I am asking is whether or not salvation makes a difference in a person's life (other than, of course, purchasing a ticket into heaven) and where you draw the line.

 

[Yeshua1]

If I understand you correctly, then you are saying that there are saved believers remain within a sinful and false religion. Does this principle extend to other lifestyles and sins as well?

And what I mean by this is, can a Mormon be saved yet still hold to the idea that Jesus and Satan are brothers and that they have the potential of becoming gods themselves? Or can this Catholic believer be saved yet look to the Church for that salvation and a priest to mediate for his sins? Or can a drunkard, or an adulterer be saved yet remain living that sinful lifestyle? I guess what I am asking is whether or not salvation makes a difference in a person's life (other than, of course, purchasing a ticket into heaven) and where you draw the line.

No, what I mean is that despite their faulty knowledge and understanding of the real Gospel. as that is not being taught to them, the Lord can and does still save a remnant out of that group, as none of us are saved by what we know in the end, but by the will and act of God!

Once the Lord saves them though, in order to start start maturing and growing up in the Faith..., they should really get out of there into a decent church asap!

 

[JonC]

No, what I mean is that despite their faulty knowledge and understanding of the real Gospel. as that is not being taught to them, the Lord can and does still save a remnant out of that group, as none of us are saved by what we know in the end, but by the will and act of God!

Once the Lord saves them though, in order to start start maturing and growing up in the Faith..., they should really get out of there into a decent church asap!

Is there something that you would consider to be a minimum understanding of the gospel for salvation, or is salvation accomplished regardless of one's faith?

 

[Hark]

If I understand you correctly, then you are saying that there are saved believers remain within a sinful and false religion. Does this principle extend to other lifestyles and sins as well?

And what I mean by this is, can a Mormon be saved yet still hold to the idea that Jesus and Satan are brothers and that they have the potential of becoming gods themselves? Or can this Catholic believer be saved yet look to the Church for that salvation and a priest to mediate for his sins? Or can a drunkard, or an adulterer be saved yet remain living that sinful lifestyle? I guess what I am asking is whether or not salvation makes a difference in a person's life (other than, of course, purchasing a ticket into heaven) and where you draw the line.

The line is drawn depending on whether that foundation is laid or not by coming to and believing in Jesus Christ; even those who just believe in His name. John 1:12-13 KJV preference

If you discern with Him how 1 Corinthians 3:10-17 testifies to even a believer whom just built nothing but wood, stubble, and hay on that foundation, all the works will be burned up in that day when God will judge His House first ( 1 Peter 4:17-19 ) at the pre trib rapture event ( Luke 12:40-49 ) , but the foundation remains as the castaways ( 2 Corinthians 9:24-27 ) will be gathered later on after the great tribulations as vessels unto dishonour in His House ( 2 Timothy 2:10-13 & 2 Timothy 2:18-21 ).

If there is someone that is a professing believer that you doubt is saved, just plain ask them if they believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and that God raised Him from the dead. It is possible that a believer that just believes in His name is saved, but that believer will die in his or her sin for not believing that Jesus is Lord God. This point has to be considered on the basis that saved believers can die in unrepentant sin like the saints at the church at Thyatira in Revelation whom will be cast into the bed of the great tribulation.

I suggest reserving judgment of condemnation on whether or not that professing believer is saved, and just focus on judging by correcting the iniquity that the professing believer is involved in so that God may lead them to repent. If they refuse the correction, then withdraw as He leads you to. 2 Thessalonians 3:1-7 & 2 Thessalonians 3:14-15

Do not judge by condemning the believer; judge by correcting the errant brethren.

 

[DHK]

If Catholics believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and that God raised Him from the dead, in according to His word which is a promise, they are saved even if Catholics do not believe the end result by believing in Him.

No. That is not true. I believed that. In fact I could repeat it both in Latin and in English. That didn't make me saved. It just gave me head knowledge.

The foundation has been laid, but all that is being built on that foundation is wood, stubble, and hay; works that deny Him. The Catholic churches are not alone as a denomenation building religious works that deny Him.

The commitment to follow Christ and the Promise Keepers program has filtered through all denomenations leading many believers to religious bondages where they deny living by faith in Him as their Good Shepherd as the power in living the christian life.

So allot of believers are labouring not into that rest in Jesus Christ where they need His help to be set free to rest in Him.

You shall know them by their fruit. A true believer will will depart from those that teach error. They will obey the Bible.

2 Corinthians 6:14 Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?
15 And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel?
16 And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.
17 Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you,
--A believer in the NT is the temple of God (1Cor.6:19,20), and can have no fellowship no agreement with the temple of idols which the RCC is.

 

[Hark]

Is there something that you would consider to be a minimum understanding of the gospel for salvation, or is salvation accomplished regardless of one's faith?

John 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: 13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

1 John 5:1Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him...13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

This is why Jesus taught His disciples to make disciples of other believers so that they may be free from sin and from works that deny Him in living as His disciples in following Him in the light..

 

[Hark]

No. That is not true. I believed that. In fact I could repeat it both in Latin and in English. That didn't make me saved. It just gave me head knowledge.

Well, I am not going to judge you as to condemn you where you were, but I can thank the Lord as to where you are now.

You shall know them by their fruit. A true believer will will depart from those that teach error. They will obey the Bible.

2 Corinthians 6:14 Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?
15 And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel?
16 And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.
17 Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you,
--A believer in the NT is the temple of God (1Cor.6:19,20), and can have no fellowship no agreement with the temple of idols which the RCC is.

Yes... we are to do that, but Paul says they are still brothers; even wicked and unreasonable men that have not faith, that have departed from the traditions taught of us. 2 Thessalonians 3:1-7 & 2 Thessalonians 3:14-15

 

[JonC]

John 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: 13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

1 John 5:1Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him...13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

This is why Jesus taught His disciples to make disciples of other believers so that they may be free from sin and from works that deny Him in living as His disciples in following Him in the light..

How do you define this (believing in His name)?

Sent from my TARDIS

 

[Hark]

How do you define this (believing in His name)?

Sent from my TARDIS

With respect to the Lord. How they believe in His name cannot be defined when they say that they believe in His name. All I can do is trust the Lord to lead me to assure them how that foundation has been laid and go from there in the hopes that He will lead them to be His disciples rather than be a disciple of a church.

 

[JonC]

With respect to the Lord. How they believe in His name cannot be defined when they say that they believe in His name. All I can do is trust the Lord to lead me to assure them how that foundation has been laid and go from there in the hopes that He will lead them to be His disciples rather than be a disciple of a church.

If "believe in His name" does not need to be defined, then how exactly does that fit in the gospel message of Jesus Christ? I ask because it seems to me that there are many passages describing what this means, although there are also various interpretations of these passages. I am not certain that evangelism via a gospel message centered upon an undefined term presents a clear and faithful gospel.

 

[Hark]

If "believe in His name" does not need to be defined, then how exactly does that fit in the gospel message of Jesus Christ? I ask because it seems to me that there are many passages describing what this means, although there are also various interpretations of these passages. I am not certain that evangelism via a gospel message centered upon an undefined term presents a clear and faithful gospel.

I understand, but yet if we take the verse that everyone that calls upon the name of the Lord shall be saved, we could say that the Gentiles in Acts 10th chapter were never saved because they did not call on Him to be saved. All they did was believe the gospel that they had heard and they had received the Holy Ghost.

If we take Acts 2nd chapter event where most believers misread that event that this is how the Jews were saved at Pentecost, we would think water baptism was necessary for salvation.

So my point is; there are too many verses where believing in Him is how we are saved and yet there are few verses that suggests that even those that believe in His name are saved.

We may not know how they believe in His name, but at the very least, we have His name to go from in reminding the believer of the gospel, even if they only heard the gospel for the very first time, because at the very least, they believed in His name to listen. Once that has been established, Lord willing, we can start building on that foundation by exposing the works that deny Him as having laid that foundation, thus He will finish His work in them by the grace of God now.. or later, but He will finish it.

 

[JonC]

I understand, but yet if we take the verse that everyone that calls upon the name of the Lord shall be saved, we could say that the Gentiles in Acts 10th chapter were never saved because they did not call on Him to be saved. All they did was believe the gospel that they had heard and they had received the Holy Ghost.

If we take Acts 2nd chapter event as to how the Jews were saved at Pentecost, we would think water baptism was necessary for salvation.

So my point is; there are too many verses where believing in Him is how we are saved and yet there are few verses that suggests that even those that believe in His name are saved.

We may not know how they believe in His name, but at the very least, we have His name to go from in reminding the believer of the gospel, even if they only heard the gospel for the very first time, because at the very least, they believed in His name to listen. Once that has been established, Lord willing, we can start building on that foundation by exposing the works that deny Him as having laid that foundation, thus He will finish His work in them by the grace of God now.. or later, but He will finish it.

Ok, I understand what you are saying now. Thank you for taking the time to explain it to me.

 

[Hark]

Ok, I understand what you are saying now. Thank you for taking the time to explain it to me.

You are welcome. I thank the Lord for causing the increase.

 

[DHK]

I understand, but yet if we take the verse that everyone that calls upon the name of the Lord shall be saved, we could say that the Gentiles in Acts 10th chapter were never saved because they did not call on Him to be saved. All they did was believe the gospel that they had heard and they had received the Holy Ghost.

If the only requirement is believing in his name wouldn't demons be saved?

James 2:19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.

 

[Hark]

If the only requirement is believing in his name wouldn't demons be saved?

James 2:19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.

Good point, but then again, is James 2:19 truly applicable for demons today or even back then, if they cannot die & have been already judged?

Matthew 25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

2 Corinthians 6:2(For he saith, I have heard thee in a time accepted, and in the day of salvation have I succoured thee: behold, now is the accepted time; behold, now is the day of salvation.)

Hebrews 9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment: 28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

It is true that the devil believes, but they do not look to Him for themselves to appear without sin unto salvation at all.

The devils are cursed and cannot be redeemed, whereas the living can believe and be saved while they still can before they die to be judged.

 

[DHK]

Good point, but then again, is James 2:19 truly applicable for demons today or even back then, if they cannot die & have been already judged?

But what is James teaching?
I believed as a Catholic.
Then I believed 20 years later when someone else shared with me the gospel.
What was the difference between the "two beliefs"?

Romans 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

 

[Hark]

But what is James teaching?
I believed as a Catholic.
Then I believed 20 years later when someone else shared with me the gospel.
What was the difference between the "two beliefs"?

Romans 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

Can you say that as a former Catholic that you had never believed even in His name? John 1:12-13

I suppose it is possible that a professing Catholic had never believed even in His name as I had come across a Protestant church member in my time that was just attending for social status.

But whether you did just believed in His name or not, I am glad that the Lord enabled you to hear the gospel if not for the very first time so you can rest in Him that you are saved even if it was 20 years later.

I reckon my point is that the Catholic should hear the Good News enough that they know it by believing that Jesus is God and that God raised Him from the dead, but don't believe the end result of that promise for believing those two things to be saved, because they still believe they have to do all those things in catholicism in "working out their salvation".

That is called laboring in unbelief and falling short of that rest in Jesus. That can happen to any saved believer as Paul pointed out; Hebrews 4:1-3 & Hebrews 4:9-11