Catholics Come Home

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Or so they think. If they would read their Catechism, they would realize you are made clean only with confession in conjunction with perfect contrition.

Maybe you can teach it when you convert....:laugh: Maybe that wasnt such a nice joke...I apologize.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Why should I hate you, EWF? I don't think I hate anyone although I do wish Barack Obama was still a community organizer.

Poorly catechized Latins are easy targets. How do you think you would do with Scott Hahn?

Im not targeting Scott.....but I would tell him he is an apostate & would convict him of proselytizing similar to what I told I told John Shelby Spong (minus the proselytizing). Come to think of it I told Rev Spong he was a Heretic for many of his stances & bizarre teaching. (Yes Ive read his books, corresponded with him & met with him face to face). Spong lives in New Jersey. Yay for me.

BTW most RC's are poorly catechized....been happening since before Vat II. Most stay in the RC Church because they are raised up in it & most dont study it and dont really study bible....not to the degree they need to. I therefore perform a service, one that puts sight into the eyes of the spiritually blind & ignorant. And with that accomplished the HS does the rest & Christ (not the RCC) becomes sovereign in their lives. Aren't Baptists supposed to do that?

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

How do we account for this? We'd call that apostatizing. Scriptural knowledge proves nothing, nor does it reveal salvation.

Fruit does.

That said have departed to an apostate religion is quite revealing in itself. Satan knows his ministers must be well versed to appear as ministers of light. No surprise here, you should know this already yourself.

- Peace

This is the RCC my brothers.....they got allot of fruits in the clergy.:laugh:

But Z, I am concerned that you could view Protestant Pastors & Theologians that turn to the Catholic Church as noteworthy ....frankly I view them as rogues & misguided.

 

[Walter]

How, then, do you account for the likes of Scott Hahn, Marcus Grodi, James Akin, Stephen Ray and Francis Beckwith, all of whom had intimate knowledge of scripture and, because of their knowledge of the Bible, converted to the Catholic Church?

Good question! I'm currently reading books by both Scott Hahn and just today listened to Stephen Ray's testimony. These are people who obviously have an 'intimate knowledge of scripture' and come to much different conclusions than the ex-Catholics on this board. Personally, I am starting to also!

 

[Zenas]

How do we account for this? We'd call that apostatizing. Scriptural knowledge proves nothing, nor does it reveal salvation.

Fruit does.

That said have departed to an apostate religion is quite revealing in itself. Satan knows his ministers must be well versed to appear as ministers of light. No surprise here, you should know this already yourself.

- Peace

But these men believe in the truth of scripture as much as you and I. They just believe it should be read in light of how it has been understood over the millennia. They would say you are the apostate. So how do you know you’re right and they are wrong? Not trying to start a debate. I would appreciate a serious and reasoned answer.

 

[Zenas]

But Z, I am concerned that you could view Protestant Pastors & Theologians that turn to the Catholic Church as noteworthy ....frankly I view them as rogues & misguided.

From my perspective it is noteworthy because these appear to be men who were well grounded in their faith before they converted. You don’t see that very often. It’s also noteworthy because I never heard of a real intellectual heavyweight convert from Catholic to Protestant. I know of a few priests, Richard Bennett for example, who have converted but no one of the caliber and reputation of Hahn and Beckwith. Do you know of any?

 

[Michael Wrenn]

Which is engendered in the funny costumes they wear to prove to the laity that they are in fact Religious & Special :laugh:

It's not only Romanists who wear vestments.

 

[David Lamb]

It's not only Romanists who wear vestments.

True, but that doesn't make the practice any more correct. In the bible, the Old Testament priesthood wore special clothes, but in the New Testament, I cannot see a single reference to church leaders dressing any differently to other church members.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

From my perspective it is noteworthy because these appear to be men who were well grounded in their faith before they converted. You don’t see that very often. It’s also noteworthy because I never heard of a real intellectual heavyweight convert from Catholic to Protestant. I know of a few priests, Richard Bennett for example, who have converted but no one of the caliber and reputation of Hahn and Beckwith. Do you know of any?

Not personally , but Calvin, Knox, Huss, Luther come to mind.

Oh & my Aunt Rosemarie, who went from wanting to be a Nun for most of her life, studied the bible for 72 years & then converted to a bible centered Christian. she knows more scripture & more about the RCC than anyone I will ever know & she is very sincere in her understanding of the operation of things. She disavows Catholicism as false religion.

 

[Michael Wrenn]

True, but that doesn't make the practice any more correct. In the bible, the Old Testament priesthood wore special clothes, but in the New Testament, I cannot see a single reference to church leaders dressing any differently to other church members.

So, would you be against choir robes -- which are also vestments?

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Good question! I'm currently reading books by both Scott Hahn and just today listened to Stephen Ray's testimony. These are people who obviously have an 'intimate knowledge of scripture' and come to much different conclusions than the ex-Catholics on this board. Personally, I am starting to also!

I think you should start from Genesis.... but you may also want to read "The Bondage of the Will" by Martin Luther. However I must say that I fail to understand your fascination with Roman Catholics? Take "justification" for just one example. For RC's , justification is a subjective process that is begun in faith but completed by works. For me as a student of the bible, at any rate--justification is an objective declaration that the believer is righteous through faith in Christ alone, apart from works. Im pretty certain that these ex-protestants would have you believe that this difference is merely a misunderstanding; but it is, in fact, a principled & irreconcilable disagreement on the matter of vital importance. At issue is the meaning of the gospel & the method of salvation. Here Catholic dogma & Protestant theology part ways... I say that because you might want to start there as well.

 

[David Lamb]

So, would you be against choir robes -- which are also vestments?

Yes, and for the same reason - there is (as far as I am aware) no biblical warrant for any church member to be dressed up in a special costume. I know this will probably seem a very odd view to anyone in a "liturgical" church, where such things as a robed choir and clergy in vestments, are taken for granted. I wouldn't fall out with anyone on this matter, though.

 

[Walter]

Not personally , but Calvin, Knox, Huss, Luther come to mind.

Oh & my Aunt Rosemarie, who went from wanting to be a Nun for most of her life, studied the bible for 72 years & then converted to a bible centered Christian. she knows more scripture & more about the RCC than anyone I will ever know & she is very sincere in her understanding of the operation of things. She disavows Catholicism as false religion.

Isn't it funny? I have an aunt who was a devout Baptist, studied the bible for many years and then became a bible centered Catholic Christian. She knows more scripture and more about Baptist's 'than anyone I will ever know and she is very sincere in her understanding of the operation of things.' She affirms the Catholic faith as the 'real deal'. She exhibits the fruits of the Spirit and brings people to know the Lord. She is NOT miserable within the Catholic Church (as one on the board insists she must be) and has a zeal for evangelism.

And this is the reason I am currently studying the Catechism of the Catholic Church and reading their apologists. She, as 'Thinkingstuff' and others I have read on this board, come to a different conclusion than you. That is the reason for 'my fascination' with the Catholic Church.

 

[Walter]

Up here in the "Noth" these RC's are about 65% of the religious community & rather formidable. So if you are a sinner and you want a pass on sinning you go to the confessional & get to admit your sins & walk out cleansed....you then go back to sinning & get another pass by going back to confession. Confession is actually on of the 7 ....get this "SACRAMENTS" that you do to get to heaven.

So if your a repeat sinner, this church is a means to get your Salvation while still sinning & best of all no need to be reborn. No wonder there is so many RC's

'So if you are a sinner and you want a pass on sinning you got to the confessional & get to admit your sins & walk out clensed'. You seem to indicate that Catholics are taught that they can sin and confess and then intentionally continue to do that same sin. Didn't you pay attention in catechism when they taught you what the 'Act of Contrition' was all about? A prayer you said at the end of confession? Without which, I have read in the Catechism, the confession is not valid.

'My God, I am sorry for my sins with all my heart. In choosing to do wrong
and failing to do good, I have sinned against you whom I should love above
all things. I firmly intend, with your help, to do penance, to sin no more,
and to avoid whatever leads me to sin. Our Savior Jesus Christ suffered and
died for us. In his name, my God, have mercy.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

'So if you are a sinner and you want a pass on sinning you got to the confessional & get to admit your sins & walk out clensed'. You seem to indicate that Catholics are taught that they can sin and confess and then intentionally continue to do that same sin. Didn't you pay attention in catechism when they taught you what the 'Act of Contrition' was all about? A prayer you said at the end of confession? Without which, I have read in the Catechism, the confession is not valid.

'My God, I am sorry for my sins with all my heart. In choosing to do wrong
and failing to do good, I have sinned against you whom I should love above
all things. I firmly intend, with your help, to do penance, to sin no more,
and to avoid whatever leads me to sin. Our Savior Jesus Christ suffered and
died for us. In his name, my God, have mercy.

No no......Its a "Good" Act of Contrition that gets it done....know it by heart. Nuns taught me I can be a Murdering Bush Wacker all my life but if I say it with contrition at the close of life, then I would be saved........Thanks for reminding me why I'm not a Roman Catholic today.

Oh they also taught me to sing "Kumbaya" at Folk Masses.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Isn't it funny? I have an aunt who was a devout Baptist, studied the bible for many years and then became a bible centered Catholic Christian. She knows more scripture and more about Baptist's 'than anyone I will ever know and she is very sincere in her understanding of the operation of things.' She affirms the Catholic faith as the 'real deal'. She exhibits the fruits of the Spirit and brings people to know the Lord. She is NOT miserable within the Catholic Church (as one on the board insists she must be) and has a zeal for evangelism.

And this is the reason I am currently studying the Catechism of the Catholic Church and reading their apologists. She, as 'Thinkingstuff' and others I have read on this board, come to a different conclusion than you. That is the reason for 'my fascination' with the Catholic Church.

Thinkingstuff knows RCC is false & apostate so dont tell me a lie here OK! If its you conviction to go that route, be my guest. Its mans chief end to glorify God & enjoy him forever. If you can do that with a rosary in your hands, then my hats off to you. :smilewinkgrin:

Now after leaving The RCC & Giving Apostate Presbyterians a whirl, I have embraced True Biblical Theology & have learned to worship the God of grace so Im quite interested in seeing others do the same thus my own personal motto.... here it is in Latin for you LOL. "Post Tenebras Lux" :godisgood: I sincerely hope you find the God of Salvation where you seek Him!

 

[Walter]

Thinkingstuff knows RCC is false & apostate so dont tell me a lie here OK! If its you conviction to go that route, be my guest. Its mans chief end to glorify God & enjoy him forever. If you can do that with a rosary in your hands, then my hats off to you. :smilewinkgrin:

Now after leaving The RCC & Giving Apostate Presbyterians a whirl, I have embraced True Biblical Theology & have learned to worship the God of grace so Im quite interested in seeing others do the same thus my own personal motto.... here it is in Latin for you LOL. "Post Tenebras Lux" :godisgood: I sincerely hope you find the God of Salvation where you seek Him!

Now that just doesn't make any sense at all to me. If 'Thinkingstuff' knows the Catholic faith is false and apostate, why has he returned to it? Honestly, his posts regarding why he left the Catholic Church and then the ones regarding why he has returned to it and now also teaches the faith that have shown the most honesty on this board so far. The majority of the posts regarding the Catholic Church by the other people on this board are the usual 'apostates! Heretics! Idol worship! Goddess Lovers!' stuff that I'm finding not to be sustantiated by studying that churches actual teachings. And, yes, I'm going to continue to prayerfuly study and draw my own conclusions.

 

[Walter]

And, BTW, EWF. I don't appreciate being called a liar. Please refer to 'Thinkingstuffs' public profile and see for yourself what church he now attends.

 

[Michael Wrenn]

Now that just doesn't make any sense at all to me. If 'Thinkingstuff' knows the Catholic faith is false and apostate, why has he returned to it? Honestly, his posts regarding why he left the Catholic Church and then the ones regarding why he has returned to it and now also teaches the faith that have shown the most honesty on this board so far. The majority of the posts regarding the Catholic Church by the other people on this board are the usual 'apostates! Heretics! Idol worship! Goddess Lovers!' stuff that I'm finding not to be sustantiated by studying that churches actual teachings. And, yes, I'm going to continue to prayerfuly study and draw my own conclusions.

If you're looking for the church that Jesus established, the RCC is not it. Compare the first century church to what the RCC became and is, and you'll see two things that are about as far apart as you can get. The RCC is an amalgamation of a little bit of Christianity, a lot of paganism, and the Roman political system. Just what does the "pomp and circumstance" of the RCC have to do with the Gospel that shepherds and fishermen lived and taught? The papacy, Mariology, elaborate robes, titles that should be applied to God alone, political intrigue and entanglement, forced celibacy, and a myriad of other things show that the RCC is not New Testament Christianity.

 

[Walter]

If you're looking for the church that Jesus established, the RCC is not it. Compare the first century church to what the RCC became and is, and you'll see two things that are about as far apart as you can get. The RCC is an amalgamation of a little bit of Christianity, a lot of paganism, and the Roman political system. Just what does the "pomp and circumstance" of the RCC have to do with the Gospel that shepherds and fishermen lived and taught? The papacy, Mariology, elaborate robes, titles that should be applied to God alone, political intrigue and entanglement, forced celibacy, and a myriad of other things show that the RCC is not New Testament Christianity.

This is what I have always been taught as a Baptist. However, I am finding by my study of the Catechism of the Catholic Church and reading their apologists that I'm starting to reach other conclusions. We will see.