Catholics not accepted?

[lori4dogs]

So then Mary came before Jesus - who was from the beginning of the world.

Wow, you really need to re-read you Bible. Jesus was the only begotten of the Fatherl Mary gave birth to Jesus after His pre-incarnate form (Melchizedek) she was the ARK OF THE COVENANT! Jesus always existed with the Father.

No Mary was the Mother of God, can't degrade Jesus to anything else but true God of True God. You protestants are just stuck with that theological Reality, like it or not.

BTW, quite a few former Baptist (some pastors) converted to Catholic faith afte coming to realize this theological truth was not negotiable. I suggest you study it with those Baptist blinders off!

 

[DHK]

Membership in the Roman Catholic Church declined 0.59 percent and the Southern Baptist Convention declined 0.24 percent, according to the 2009 edition of the Yearbook, edited by the National Council of Churches and published by Abingdon.


http://www.anglicansunited.com/?p=987

From the same source comes this stat:

The figures indicate that the Catholic church lost 398,000 members since the appearance of the 2008 Yearbook. Southern Baptists lost nearly 40,000 members.

 

[DHK]

Wow, you really need to re-read you Bible. Jesus was the only begotten of the Fatherl Mary gave birth to Jesus after His pre-incarnate form (Melchizedek) she was the ARK OF THE COVENANT!

Mary was made of wood?
Who needs to take their blinders off?

 

[annsni]

Wow, you really need to re-read you Bible. Jesus was the only begotten of the Fatherl Mary gave birth to Jesus after His pre-incarnate form (Melchizedek) she was the ARK OF THE COVENANT! Jesus always existed with the Father.

And Mary being the Ark of the Covenant is found where in Scripture?

No Mary was the Mother of God, can't degrade Jesus to anything else but true God of True God. You protestants are just stuck with that theological Reality, like it or not.

But if Jesus existed before His birth on earth, then she could not be God's mother, could she?

BTW, quite a few former Baptist (some pastors) converted to Catholic faith afte coming to realize this theological truth was not negotiable. I suggest you study it with those Baptist blinders off!

LOL - tit for tat - I can probably introduce you to a few priests who went the other way myself including one of our Baptist pastors. Maybe take off the false church blinders?

 

[DHK]

Wow, you really need to re-read you Bible. Jesus was the only begotten of the Fatherl Mary gave birth to Jesus after His pre-incarnate form (Melchizedek) she was the ARK OF THE COVENANT! Jesus always existed with the Father.

ARK OF THE COVENANT
The sacred chest or coffer in which the tables of the law were deposited, written by the finger of God, and witnessing to his covenant with his people, Ex 25:22; 34:29.
It was of shittim-wood, covered within and without with plates of gold, nearly four feet in length, and two feet three inches in width and height. On the top of it, all around, ran a kind of gold crown. It had four rings of gold, two on each side, through which staves were put, by which it was carried. These also were overlaid with the finest gold, and were not to be removed from the rings, Ex 25:10-22. The lid of the ark, all of gold, was called the mercy-seat; and upon its opposite ends were two golden cherubim, fronting each other and the mercy-seat, which they covered with their outspread wings, Ex 37:1-9. Here God especially dwelt, 2Ki 19:15; 1Ch 13:6, and shone forth, perhaps by some sensible manifestations, Le 16:2; Ps 80:1. Here he received the homage of his people, and dispensed his living oracles, Nu 7:89. The great yearly sacrifice of expiation was here offered by the high priest, Heb 9:7, in the Holy of Holies. Hence there was no object held more sacred by the Jews than "the ark of God." During their journeys in the wilderness, it was borne by the priests under a purple canopy and with great reverence before the host of Israel, Nu 4:5-6. Before it the Jordan was divided, and behind it the waters flowed on again, Jos 3:1-4:24. The walls of Jericho fell down before it, Jos 6:4-12.

From the American Tract Society Dictionary


You will notice it has no reference, or even the slightest allusion to Mary.

 

[Marcia]

But if Jesus existed before His birth on earth, then she could not be God's mother, could she?

I've studied the history of the "Mother of God" statement and it came about to affirm the deity of Christ; it was not to say Mary is the mother of God the Father, but rather that she was the mother of Jesus, the incarnated God the Son. This statement was a result of attacks on the deity of Christ.

 

[annsni]

I've studied the history of the "Mother of God" statement and it came about to affirm the deity of Christ; it was not to say Mary is the mother of God the Father, but rather that she was the mother of Jesus, the incarnated God the Son. This statement was a result of attacks on the deity of Christ.

And yet now it's used to bring Mary to a higher place than she ever wanted.

 

[Marcia]

And yet now it's used to bring Mary to a higher place than she ever wanted.

Well, I would disagree with that, of course.

Are they not mainly using titles like co-redemptrix and mediator as well, to bring her to a higher place?

 

[annsni]

Well, I would disagree with that, of course.

Are they not mainly using titles like co-redemptrix and mediator as well, to bring her to a higher place?

I agree - but those are newer terms IIRC. "Mother of God" has been used for quite some time to show that Mary is higher than who she really was.

 

[Darron Steele]

I rarely criticize Catholics' beliefs here.

We have too many people who hate Catholics here. They use criticism of Catholicism as an opportunity to air their grudges against Catholics.

I think this warrants an exception to my normal policy. It is troubling how much more is being said in exaltation of Mary than of Jesus Christ.

Lori: you need to tone down your praises of Mary on this board if you want to be taken seriously. Some opinions are best left unexpressed in some cases.

 

[brucebaptist]

For a Roman Catholic person to come to these boards or anywhere for that matter and state they are saved by Christ alone is such a deceptive and false statement I can only immediately recognize the hand of Satan in it.

It is lie, and a bad one at that. It is doublespeak and trickery. I detest it.

The papal system Roman Catholics hold to is where and whom their find their salvation. The Roman Catholic church is an Antichristian organization set against the Bible's teaching..it stands opposed to Christ and His blood bought church, true Christians, and all that is good and holy.

The papacy is also the fulfillment of the biblical prophecy of that Man of Sin foretold of in Scripture. It is very Antichrist.

Salvation in papal doctrine IS NOT through Christ alone. It is through sacraments and the priesthood of its church. Therefore, true to being Antichrist, it stands in the place of Christ, usurping Christ, to be salvation itself to the people caught by it.

It is not a salvation through Christ alone, but a salvation through Roman Catholic Church alone.

lets compare the rc catechism to the Word of God:

1. CANON 9: "If any one saith, that by faith alone the impious is justified; in such wise as to mean, that nothing else is required to co-operate in order to the obtaining the grace of Justification, and that it is not in any way necessary, that he be prepared and disposed by the movement of his own will; let him be anathema."
1. "Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin," (Rom. 3:20).
2. "Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus," (Rom. 3:24).
3. "Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law," (Rom. 3:28).
4. "For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness," (Rom. 4:3).
5. "Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ," (Rom. 5:1).
6. "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God," (Eph. 2:8).
7. "Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost," (Titus 3:5).

2. CANON 12: "If any one shall say that justifying faith is nothing else than confidence in the divine mercy pardoning sins for Christ's sake, or that it is that confidence alone by which we are justified ... let him be accursed"
1. "But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name," (John 1:12).
2. "Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law," (Rom. 3:28).
3. 'For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness," (Rom. 4:3).
4. "Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them. 26For such an high priest became us, who is holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners, and made higher than the heavens; 27Who needeth not daily, as those high priests, to offer up sacrifice, first for his own sins, and then for the peoples: for this he did once, when he offered up himself," (Heb. 7:25-27).
5. "For the which cause I also suffer these things: nevertheless I am not ashamed: for I know whom I have believed, and am persuaded that he is able to keep that which I have committed unto him against that day," (2 Tim. 1:12).

3. Canon 14: "If any one saith, that man is truly absolved from his sins and justified, because that he assuredly believed himself absolved and justified; or, that no one is truly justified but he who believes himself justified; and that, by this faith alone, absolution and justification are effected; let him be anathema."
1. "For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness," (Rom. 4:3).
2. "Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ," (Rom. 5:1).

as you can see by the papacys (rcc) own doc's... they are antichrist.

 

[Darron Steele]

Written regarding Johnv:

Your a sorry example of a Reformed believer.

Drop the word "Reformed" and I agree with you.

These are the entirety of their posts.

JohnDeereFan: yours was the worst.

There was no basis for this. Here is what I see in Scripture. Jesus said the following:

• John 14:15 "If ye love me, ye will keep my commandments."

• Mark 7:20b "What comes out of a person is what defiles him.
  Mar 7:21 For from within, out of the heart of man, come evil thoughts, sexual immorality, theft, murder, adultery,
  Mar 7:22 coveting, wickedness, deceit, sensuality, envy, slander, pride, foolishness.
  Mar 7:23 All these evil things come from within, and they defile a person."

• Mat 5:7 Blessed are the merciful: for they shall obtain mercy.

• Mat 19:18 He saith unto him, Which? And Jesus said, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,
  Mat 19:19 Honor thy father and mother; and, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself.

• By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another

The brother whom you just smeared is someone you do not know. You have no idea what he does in regular life. The main thing I have seen him do here is speak up for the slandered. God, which would mean Jesus, said before Incarnation at Isaiah 61:8 "For I the LORD love justice" and at Micah 6:8 "It hath been told thee, O man, what is good, and what the LORD doth require of thee: only to do justly, and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with thy God" (JPS 1917). Johnv has spoken up for those being smeared in his time here. Despite the errors of Roman Catholicism, he has followed the "Blessed are the merciful" that Jesus said here on this earth. He has followed a desire to see Catholics being treated fairly despite their errors, loving justice and mercy just as the Lord does.

You, in contrast to what Jesus wants from us, are most noticed for what and whom you HATE. If you love anyone, I sure cannot tell. The opposite goes with your every post right now, as your current signature airs your ill feelings for three people: Barack Obama, Nancy Pelosi, and Joel Osteen. I know you hate Catholics, as you persist in smearing them for beliefs and practices they do not have. You have shown no compassion and no mercy: it may be false witness, but if you think you can pull it off, you will post it. It is apparent that you have no use for Johnv, as clear from the above gratuitous shot. I read about what Jesus said He wanted in His followers, and I see anything but that in you.

I dare say that you just reviled the better Christian -- if being how Jesus wants us to be is the main criteria for that, and assuming that we are going with what the Bible actually says about that.

 

[brucebaptist]

I rarely criticize Catholics' beliefs here.

We have too many people who hate Catholics here. They use criticism of Catholicism as an opportunity to air their grudges against Catholics.

I think this warrants an exception to my normal policy. It is troubling how much more is being said in exaltation of Mary than of Jesus Christ.

Lori: you need to tone down your praises of Mary on this board if you want to be taken seriously. Some opinions are best left unexpressed in some cases.

if somebody here "hates" a catholic... they need to repent...
Matthew 5:44
But I say unto you, Love your enemies...

but that is not the case, typically. Christians who are in the Truth of Christ and the Truth of the Word... hate error and false religion...
Romans 12:9
Love must be sincere. Hate what is evil;

NOT the people who are deceived in that false religion... i dont hate catholics... i hate false religion and i am commanded by God to expose it...

Ephesians 5:11
Have nothing to do with the fruitless deeds of darkness, but rather expose them.

would you not call killing 50 million innocent people (by the papacy)... "fruitless deeds of darkness"?

the papacy is to be exposed. the catholics are to be loved and told the truth. and you show them love by telling them the truth... not be keeping quiet.

 

[Darron Steele]

if somebody here "hates" a catholic... they need to repent...
Matthew 5:44
But I say unto you, Love your enemies...

but that is not the case, typically. Christians who are in the Truth of Christ and the Truth of the Word... hate error and false religion...

But NOT THE ADHERENTS THEREOF.

THAT is what too few here want to accept.

Sure, plenty of people here understand and accept that. However, we still have
a) people who refuse to accept that, and
b) people who defend those who refuse to accept that.

It reminds me of a Sunday evening service I once saw. A foul individual was a guest pulpit person defiling the preaching of the Word and the pulpit of two good ministers. During his time in that pulpit, behind a Book he hardly referenced, he took occasion to mock the size of an overweight man -- who was terribly embarrassed. His brutish behavior was excused because he was `preaching the truth' about a variety of religious topics. I disagree that it made his pauses to mock the man's size okay.

Here right now, a person was called a "sorry example" of a Christian, and I spoke up for him -- and a defense for that unmerited smear will probably come similar to "the papacy is to be exposed." That is totally irrelevant to what was done, and it does not make what was done `okay.'

Romans 12:9
Love must be sincere. Hate what is evil;

NOT the people who are deceived in that false religion.

Right.

.. i dont hate catholics...

But there are people here who do, and people here who defend those who do.

i hate false religion and i am commanded by God to expose it...

Ephesians 5:11
Have nothing to do with the fruitless deeds of darkness, but rather expose them.

would you not call killing 50 million innocent people (by the papacy)... "fruitless deeds of darkness"?

the papacy is to be exposed. the catholics are to be loved and told the truth. and you show them love by telling them the truth... not be keeping quiet.

Fine, expose the papacy. I for one would love to see Catholicism criticized on just grounds around here, but that is not realistic at this time. Since no talk is better than slander and false witness and hateful speech, and edifying criticism would be overshadowed by them, I generally withhold criticism. If those who insist upon slandering Catholics were gone or restrained, things would be different, and Catholicism could be criticized on just grounds without it leading to anything sinful -- but that is not the case.

Somehow, some people seem to think that `We must expose the Vatican, and if we engage in activity that is sinful, it is okay.' Exposing error is not a magic charm for making sin okay. Not one person who believes in a `rightness exemption' or an `exposing error exemption' has ever quoted a Scripture that shows such a thing exists.

I did not once defend the papacy in my post.

The problem in the post you are quoting is illustrated by a hateful comment made against someone who did not deserve it. The person is not Catholic, and further shows more resemblance to what Jesus Christ prescribed for his followers. The fact that the perpetrator likes to try to get people to think bad things about Catholics does not make that okay, nor does it mean that the person maligned should not be spoken up for.

 

[lori4dogs]

From the same source comes this stat:

We gained 20 MILLION members. Fact. Did Baptist gain 20 million members? No, they lost thousands! Don' t give me, 'how much did the population grow?' Your Baptist Churches are still losing members. Your pews are emptier. Lots of them are finding there ways into our Catholic Churches here in my town.

 

[lori4dogs]

Mary was made of wood?
Who needs to take their blinders off?

No, what did the ark contain in it. It was a symbol of the coming 'actual' Ark of the Covenant. She bore the True Covenant in her womb.

 

[lori4dogs]

From the American Tract Society Dictionary


You will notice it has no reference, or even the slightest allusion to Mary.

Carson Weber did a marvelous job showing how the Old Testament Ark of the Covenant was a type of the True Ark to come bearing the salvation of the World! I suggest you dig into the archives, it is well worth reading::wavey:

Oh, she did bear the 'presence of God'. No way around it. Either Jesus was God in the flesh or He wasn't. If he was not, you and I are wasting our time.

It has been said that I need to 'tone down my praise Mary on this board'. She was the vehicle that God provided to bring our salvation into world. She said the 'perfect yes to God' ' Do it unto me according to your Word'.

I honor the Most Blessed Mother God. I thank the Lord for giving her and St. Joseph as models of how to respond to God's call. Ordinary people, I think not.

No I won't tone down my honor of these wonderful saints of God. Maybe you need to realize their example of following Jesus no matter what the consequences in this life.

I also honor DHK and others on this board who take considerable risk which their livelihood, families and probably experience ridicule and rejection for presenting the gospel of Christ. They, too, deserve my honor, prayers, and respect.

:wavey:

 

[Revmitchell]

We gained 20 MILLION members. Fact. Did Baptist gain 20 million members? No, they lost thousands! Don' t give me, 'how much did the population grow?' Your Baptist Churches are still losing members. Your pews are emptier. Lots of them are finding there ways into our Catholic Churches here in my town.

You don't have a clue

 

[Matt Black]

The issue is not whether you are a Christian, it's your use of deceit in putting that moniker under denomination after it wouldn't accept catholic. That is not justifiable, and quite frankly I would be surprised if you are still here by the end of the day. You blatantly violated a forum rule under the terms of service YOU agreed to when signing up.

I don't see how he was being deceptive - he regards himself as a Christian and is entitled to register as such.

 

[Matt Black]

I've studied the history of the "Mother of God" statement and it came about to affirm the deity of Christ; it was not to say Mary is the mother of God the Father, but rather that she was the mother of Jesus, the incarnated God the Son. This statement was a result of attacks on the deity of Christ.

I agree. It* was initially a Christological rather than Mariological statement which came to the fore in the Nestorian controversy.

*By 'it', I mean the term theotokos, which does not mean 'Mother of God' but rather 'Bearer of God'; the latter term is theologically quite correct as Mary did give birth to God the Son in His incarnate form and it doesn't have the connotations and implications of pre-existence and superiority of 'Mother of God'.