• Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Cessationism or Continuationism

Which do you hold?

  • Cessationism

    Votes: 15 68.2%

  • Continuationism

    Votes: 7 31.8%
  • Total voters
    22
Status
Not open for further replies.
1689Dave

1689Dave

Well-Known Member
If I were considering attending a Charismatic church, I would record a tongues message and play it for several interpreters from various churches and see if the interpretations match. These are not the same gifts provided in the first century. If they were, all churches would have them spontaneously. And not coached and learned as today. Speaking in Tongues: Glossalalia and Stress Reduction
 
Lodic

Lodic

Well-Known Member
1689Dave said:
If I were considering attending a Charismatic church, I would record a tongues message and play it for several interpreters from various churches and see if the interpretations match. These are not the same gifts provided in the first century. If they were, all churches would have them spontaneously. And not coached and learned as today. Speaking in Tongues: Glossalalia and Stress Reduction
Click to expand...
Now THAT is a great idea, Brother Dave. Surely the same Spirit would provide the same interpretation to the message. Thank you very much for this advice, and for the link. This is very informative.
 
1689Dave

1689Dave

Well-Known Member
Lodic said:
Now THAT is a great idea, Brother Dave. Surely the same Spirit would provide the same interpretation to the message. Thank you very much for this advice, and for the link. This is very informative.
Click to expand...
You should also check the origins of the Pentecostal movement. Azusa Street and Wm Seymour.
 
V

Van

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
According to one Pastor that taught at my church, that experiment (recording the "tongues" and having more than one "interpreter" translate the message) has already been done. The result showed that the same "tongues" message was interpreted to say different things, thus the whole process is a modern day hoax.

If we had apostles and prophets today, they could add to your bible, just like the OT and NT inspired authors did. Without those messengers, there is no need to have authenticating sign and wonder gifts.

Lastly look at Revelation, and ask yourself who will be next on the scene, actually performing miracles?
Hint, not a good guy!!!
 
Lodic

Lodic

Well-Known Member
Van said:
According to one Pastor that taught at my church, that experiment (recording the "tongues" and having more than one "interpreter" translate the message) has already been done. The result showed that the same "tongues" message was interpreted to say different things, thus the whole process is a modern day hoax.

If we had apostles and prophets today, they could add to your bible, just like the OT and NT inspired authors did. Without those messengers, there is no need to have authenticating sign and wonder gifts.

Lastly look at Revelation, and ask yourself who will be next on the scene, actually performing miracles?
Hint, not a good guy!!!
Click to expand...
That is very interesting. Obviously, the fake tongues and interpretations did not come from the Holy Spirit. However, I'm not really convinced that all modern uses of tongues are hoaxes. Either myself or people I know and trust have witnessed what appeared to be the genuine use of tongues with interpretations many times. In most of these, this was a message to either an individual, a family, or that local church. I will concede that it is possible some of those could have been faked as well, but there's no way to prove it either way.

You bring up interesting points regarding modern apostles and prophets. I am not totally convinced either way regarding those offices. However, I don't believe any who claim to be apostles or prophets would attempt to add to the Bible, because that would violate the warnings of Rev 22:18-19. Note that I am only speaking from my own limited experience, and my wife has assured me that I've been know to make mistakes.
 
1689Dave

1689Dave

Well-Known Member
Lodic said:
That is very interesting. Obviously, the fake tongues and interpretations did not come from the Holy Spirit. However, I'm not really convinced that all modern uses of tongues are hoaxes. Either myself or people I know and trust have witnessed what appeared to be the genuine use of tongues with interpretations many times. In most of these, this was a message to either an individual, a family, or that local church. I will concede that it is possible some of those could have been faked as well, but there's no way to prove it either way.

You bring up interesting points regarding modern apostles and prophets. I am not totally convinced either way regarding those offices. However, I don't believe any who claim to be apostles or prophets would attempt to add to the Bible, because that would violate the warnings of Rev 22:18-19. Note that I am only speaking from my own limited experience, and my wife has assured me that I've been know to make mistakes.
Click to expand...
You need to settle it from scripture.
 
Lodic

Lodic

Well-Known Member
1689Dave said:
You need to settle it from scripture.
Click to expand...
Unfortunately, this seems to be one of those issues that you can "prove" both sides of the question from Scripture. We ask the Spirit for guidance, but we still come up with different conclusions. How do we settle questions when we seem to have conflicting answers from Scripture?
 
1689Dave

1689Dave

Well-Known Member
Lodic said:
Unfortunately, this seems to be one of those issues that you can "prove" both sides of the question from Scripture. We ask the Spirit for guidance, but we still come up with different conclusions. How do we settle questions when we seem to have conflicting answers from Scripture?
Click to expand...
Not really. If you drop the Pentecostal framework for understanding the issue, and make an independent study, they fail in several areas. For one, scripture mentions only an apostle's hands as the means of imparting the gifts, apart from the two outpourings. There are no apostles today, and Pentecostals cannot support any other means of distribution with direct scripture quotes.
 
V

Van

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Lodic said:
That is very interesting. Obviously, the fake tongues and interpretations did not come from the Holy Spirit. However, I'm not really convinced that all modern uses of tongues are hoaxes. Either myself or people I know and trust have witnessed what appeared to be the genuine use of tongues with interpretations many times. In most of these, this was a message to either an individual, a family, or that local church. I will concede that it is possible some of those could have been faked as well, but there's no way to prove it either way.

You bring up interesting points regarding modern apostles and prophets. I am not totally convinced either way regarding those offices. However, I don't believe any who claim to be apostles or prophets would attempt to add to the Bible, because that would violate the warnings of Rev 22:18-19. Note that I am only speaking from my own limited experience, and my wife has assured me that I've been know to make mistakes.
Click to expand...

Gee, my wife has assured me of my fallibility too!!
(BTW, if modern day Apostles and Prophets did not add to the Bible, they would be what has been given to us - those living after the foundation was laid - teachers of the word. )
 
Lodic

Lodic

Well-Known Member
1689Dave said:
Not really. If you drop the Pentecostal framework for understanding the issue, and make an independent study, they fail in several areas. For one, scripture mentions only an apostle's hands as the means of imparting the gifts, apart from the two outpourings. There are no apostles today, and Pentecostals cannot support any other means of distribution with direct scripture quotes.
Click to expand...
I'll admit that you present a good argument. I will try to do an unbiased study from the Scriptures, not assuming that they have ceased nor that they have not ceased.
 
Lodic

Lodic

Well-Known Member
Van said:
Gee, my wife has assured me of my fallibility too!!
(BTW, if modern day Apostles and Prophets did not add to the Bible, they would be what has been given to us - those living after the foundation was laid - teachers of the word. )
Click to expand...
Must be something taught in "wife school", as it seems pretty common.
So modern Apostles and Prophets would just be titles and some degree of authority over a local body, where the original Apostles had authority from Christ and it was over the entire Church. As I was just telling 1689Dave, I'll try to do an unbiased study of this question in the Scriptures.
 
V

Van

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Lodic said:
Must be something taught in "wife school", as it seems pretty common.
So modern Apostles and Prophets would just be titles and some degree of authority over a local body, where the original Apostles had authority from Christ and it was over the entire Church. As I was just telling 1689Dave, I'll try to do an unbiased study of this question in the Scriptures.
Click to expand...

Sounds perfect, test what the spirits say against what scripture says!
 
37818

37818

Well-Known Member
1689Dave said:
Prove from scripture the gifts came in any other way.
Click to expand...
Two facts of Holy Scripture: 1) Nowhere does the Holy Scripture explicitly limit the giving of gifts of the Spirit by the laying of hands of only the Apostles. 2) It is explicitly as the Spirit wills (1 Corinthians 12:11).
 
1689Dave

1689Dave

Well-Known Member
37818 said:
Two facts of Holy Scripture: 1) Nowhere does the Holy Scripture explicitly limit the giving of gifts of the Spirit by the laying of hands of only the Apostles. 2) It is explicitly as the Spirit wills (1 Corinthians 12:11).
Click to expand...
But always through an apostle's hands (beyond the two outpourings).

“And when Simon saw that through laying on of the apostles’ hands the Holy Ghost was given, he offered them money,” (Acts 8:18)

“For I long to see you, that I may impart unto you some spiritual gift, to the end you may be established;” (Romans 1:11)
 
InTheLight

InTheLight

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
1689Dave said:
But always through an apostle's hands (beyond the two outpourings).

“And when Simon saw that through laying on of the apostles’ hands the Holy Ghost was given, he offered them money,” (Acts 8:18)

“For I long to see you, that I may impart unto you some spiritual gift, to the end you may be established;” (Romans 1:11)
Click to expand...
Gotta love the Calvinists that limit God's sovereignty.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top