Agreed that is why I responded with the certainty of the bema seat judgement.
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child baptism right or wrong ?
- Thread starter Cavell
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I thought it was something interesting to note.
I'm sure Jon will answer, but generally in church history Satan is on the side of the persecutors. In this case, we Baptists as a very strong rule do not persecute. It's just not a Bible Christian thing to do. So people persecute others when they are not right with God. Baby baptism makes no one right with God.
I just had a phone conversation with my friend the other day about this very subject and we both had similar conclusions on the matter.
And since John's response provoked more thought, I find it odd, or better yet, wrong and evil, that a "Christian" would murder another brother because of an "incorrect" doctrinal stance. More could be said, but i'm out of time for now.
I know that and have used that argument myself with the RCC persecution of the Waldensian folk.
That's why I said "Just asking".
Yes. That is one of the many historical items which drew me to "Baptist" churches. The lack of bloodshed on their part.
Yes and more than that Jon. See my response to JoJ.
"we" do not bring bloodshed on those who disagree because murder is of the devil.
A Baptist Distinctive
Individual Soul Liberty
Every individual, whether a believer or an unbeliever, has the liberty to choose what he believes is right in the religious realm. No one should be forced to assent to any belief against his will. Baptists have always opposed religious persecution. However, this liberty does not exempt one from responsibility to the Word of God or from accountability to God Himself.
Romans 14:5, 12; 2 Corinthians 4:2; Titus 1:9
Baptist DistinctivesGARBC
Individual Soul Liberty
Every individual, whether a believer or an unbeliever, has the liberty to choose what he believes is right in the religious realm. No one should be forced to assent to any belief against his will. Baptists have always opposed religious persecution. However, this liberty does not exempt one from responsibility to the Word of God or from accountability to God Himself.
Romans 14:5, 12; 2 Corinthians 4:2; Titus 1:9
Baptist DistinctivesGARBC
Pastor_Bob
Well-Known Member
If someone gets dipped under the water in a baptistry prior to salvation, then that individual, regardless of the age, has not been baptized. Baptism is only for believers. The Ethiopian Eunuch asked Philip, "See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized?" And Philip said, "If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest" (Acts 8:36-37).
I've never met a baby that has believed and called on the name of the Lord. That baby has not come to the place in its life where he realizes that he is responsible for his sin and accountable to God. You and I have. That is the difference between a believer and a baby. A believer can call out to the Lord and ask Him to forgive us; that little baby cannot.
The story goes that Charles Spurgeon was debating someone about this very topic. Spurgeon looked at his opponent and said, “You quote a verse supporting infant baptism, and then I’ll quote a verse against infant baptism.” The fellow said, “Suffer the little children to come unto Me and forbid them not, for such is the Kingdom of Heaven.” He looked at Spurgeon with a smile and said; “Now you quote a verse.” Mr. Spurgeon looked back and said; “There lived a man in the land of Uz whose name was Job.” The other man laughed, “What does that have to do with infant baptism?” Spurgeon replied, “Every bit as much as your verse had to do with infant baptism.”
The truth is, neither verse had anything to do with infant baptism. And, you'll not find one that does.
I've never met a baby that has believed and called on the name of the Lord. That baby has not come to the place in its life where he realizes that he is responsible for his sin and accountable to God. You and I have. That is the difference between a believer and a baby. A believer can call out to the Lord and ask Him to forgive us; that little baby cannot.
The story goes that Charles Spurgeon was debating someone about this very topic. Spurgeon looked at his opponent and said, “You quote a verse supporting infant baptism, and then I’ll quote a verse against infant baptism.” The fellow said, “Suffer the little children to come unto Me and forbid them not, for such is the Kingdom of Heaven.” He looked at Spurgeon with a smile and said; “Now you quote a verse.” Mr. Spurgeon looked back and said; “There lived a man in the land of Uz whose name was Job.” The other man laughed, “What does that have to do with infant baptism?” Spurgeon replied, “Every bit as much as your verse had to do with infant baptism.”
The truth is, neither verse had anything to do with infant baptism. And, you'll not find one that does.
Well, that settles it. How could all three of us be wrong??
My wife is a Methodist and she was baptized as a baby and when she came to accept Christ as her saviour she didn't think it necessary to be baptized again.
I spoke to my mother and uncle about it and they told me to read the verse in James "Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin." They told me I know what is right from my upbringing and it will be my sin to allow my son to be baptized.
I just don't want to deny my wife. She is convinced it is the best thing for his soul and I don't know how she will feel if I deny her the chance to do what she thinks is best for our son.
I spoke to my mother and uncle about it and they told me to read the verse in James "Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin." They told me I know what is right from my upbringing and it will be my sin to allow my son to be baptized.
I just don't want to deny my wife. She is convinced it is the best thing for his soul and I don't know how she will feel if I deny her the chance to do what she thinks is best for our son.
Brother, you're the spiritual leader of your home...this does not mean you "lord" over your wife as a tyrant...but you definitely have other things to work through besides infant baptism.
It would be beneficial for you both to walk through the Scriptures prayerfully.
Please share what she means by "the best thing for his soul." If she thinks he is being saved by that, as the spiritual leader you must work through that with her, because it is dead wrong. If the child grows up thinking he is saved because he was baptized as a baby, it could hurt his eternal soul. He cannot be saved without the blood of Jesus Christ.
In American history, one reason for the need of the Great Awakening was that many were church members, but not saved because they were depending on their baptism. They would be baptized as a baby, then grow up in the church, and then receive membership by virtue of their baby baptism. This is one reason we Baptists believe in a saved church membership. One cannot join a Baptist church without a definite testimony of salvation, and then being immersed as a public profession of that faith.
Friend, you have to stand up for what is right and what is true, please listen to the message I gave a link to earlier in the thread that explains the purpose and meaning of baptism. By baptizing your child, you are are giving credibility and approval to the false teaching of infant baptism.
I understand that your wife believes this is the best thing, can I perhaps recommend that both you and your wife listen to my teaching audio on baptism? It will help you both understand baptism from the bible and it might help your situation. However, you do need to be the man in the situation and stand up for the truth:
Matthew 10:34 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.
35 For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.
36 And a man's foes shall be they of his own household.
37 He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.
38 And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me.
Luke 14
26 If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.
27 And whosoever doth not bear his cross, and come after me, cannot be my disciple.
also Cavel can you explain to me your testimony?
Do you yourself know for sure that you have eternal life and that when you die you will go to heaven? Because honestly that is a much greater concern than whether or not your baptize your baby.
This link will explain to you how to know if you can have eternal life.
The Gospel clearly explained | Know I'm Saved
Do you yourself know for sure that you have eternal life and that when you die you will go to heaven? Because honestly that is a much greater concern than whether or not your baptize your baby.
This link will explain to you how to know if you can have eternal life.
The Gospel clearly explained | Know I'm Saved
Felipe Rios
Member
The best biblical example I can give you is that there is no instance in the bible where a child is baptized. The idea of infants being baptized is foreign to scripture.
atpollard
Well-Known Member
While a popular rhetoric among credobaptists, this statement actually goes too far. There ARE no verse that state “and they baptized the baby”, that is true. However there are several verses that talk about “whole households” being baptized and they are silent on the age of the members of the household. While some references state that the household “believed” (suggesting no infants), others make no such claim.
- [Act 11:14 NASB] 14 and he will speak words to you by which you will be saved, you and all your household.'
- [Act 16:15, 31, 33-34 NASB] 15 And when she and her household had been baptized, she urged us, saying, "If you have judged me to be faithful to the Lord, come into my house and stay." And she prevailed upon us. ... 31 They said, "Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household." ... 33 And he took them that [very] hour of the night and washed their wounds, and immediately he was baptized, he and all his [household.] 34 And he brought them into his house and set food before them, and rejoiced greatly, having believed in God with his whole household.
- [Act 18:8 NASB] 8 Crispus, the leader of the synagogue, believed in the Lord with all his household, and many of the Corinthians when they heard were believing and being baptized.
- [1Co 1:16 NASB] 16 Now I did baptize also the household of Stephanas; beyond that, I do not know whether I baptized any other.
A lot depends on how you view baptism. I view baptism as the final step to conversion - not as something that saves but as man's covenant response to salvation and as an act of obedience (very much like the Lord's Supper). Maybe even a visible "fruit" of salvation....although that may be reaching quite a bit. So baptism prior to salvation is simply a lost person getting wet.
Some, however, see baptism as an introduction into the community of faith (and confirmation taking the role I ascribe to baptism).
That said, @Reformed is right that as Baptists we hold certain views regarding baptism....and infant baptism is not among those views. In the past Baptists have not always affirmed immersion in all instances, but we do believe in "believers baptism".