Chip implants and the anti-christ

[Johnv]

Originally posted by hillclimber:
The technology exists today, and never before, to mark every human being on earth with this clever electronic device.

That's what they said about the barcode, the atm card, the charge-a-plate, coupons, and health club membership badges. Sorry, I gave up speculating on the second coming long ago, and reverted back to preaching the first coming.

 

[music4Him]

Originally posted by music4Him:
Well if we're are pre-trib why is this warning of what to look for in the bible? ie.... when we ain't gonna be here because when the going gets tough we get raptured?

Warning 1:
2 Thessalonians 2:3-12
3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; 4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God. 5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things? 6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time. 7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way. 8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming: 9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, 10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: 12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

Warning 2:
Matthew 24:4-31
4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you. 5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many. 6 And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet. 7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places. 8 All these are the beginning of sorrows. 9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake. 10 And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another. 11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many. 12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold. 13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved. 14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come. 15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand 16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains: 17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house: 18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes. 19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days! 20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day: 21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be. 22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened. 23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not. 24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect. 25 Behold, I have told you before. 26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not. 27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. 28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together. 29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: 30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Out of those warnings.........If we won't be here (If there's a pre trib) why the warning. In Matt. 24:24 it says that eventhe very elect will be decived......well? Sounds like some are gonna be going through it?

 

[NaasPreacher (C4K)]

As a pre-tribber I believe that those mentioned will be folks saved after the rapture.

 

[music4Him]

And here I thought that after the rapture that was it.......................
Isn't the rapture when the last trump shall sound?
Then the Judgement?

 

[KenH]

You are correct, music4Him.

 

[prophecynut]

Originally posted by C4K:
As a pre-tribber I believe that those mentioned will be folks saved after the rapture.

Correct, they will be the Tribulation saints who come out of the "great tribulation" (Rev. 7:14).

As usual, there is confusion as to the "last trumpet."

The last or 7th trumpet (Rev. 11:15) is sounded by an angel to announce Christ's reign and the time for judging the dead and rewarding the OT saints (v.18) which is the first resurrection of only the righteous dead at the Second Coming (20:11). No living saints are translated at this time, they are all dead. The Rapture will have those dead in Christ and alive in Christ translated at the same time.

For the Rapture the Lord will give a "loud command" like the sound of a trumpet resurrecting "those who have fallen asleep" in Christ at the first trumpet (1 Thess. 4:16). "Those who are still alive" will be changed along with those just resurrected at the second or "last trumpet" call of God (1 Cor. 15:51-52).

There will be two trumpets for the Rapture, the first to resurrect and the second or last to change our bodies.

 

[tamborine lady]

PN said "There will be two trumpets for the Rapture,"

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~`

I'll say one thing for this board!! Sometimes the answers are really FUNNY

Have a great day!!

Tamborine Lady

 

[billwald]

Pretrib concept has no pragmatic use at all. It is as practical as worrying about the sun going nova in 5 million years.

 

[webdog]

Originally posted by C4K:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by yeshua4me2:


of course now is the only time in history in which a "mark for buying and selling" is logicsticly possible",

Does that mean that Jesus could not have come back until now? Was His return not imminent in 1850? </font>[/QUOTE]If were still here now, then no it was impossible for it to have been 1850

I believe Bible prophecy has to be fulfilled. It wasn't until 1948 that Irael was reborn (Is. 66:8). The last 50 years or so Daniel 12:4 has come to fruition. Same with Zechariah 14:12. 1998 satelite tv was introduced, enabling Revelation 16:18 to be fulfilled. I believe we are the generation that will be called up into the clouds!

 

[KenH]

Originally posted by webdog:
I believe we are the generation that will be called up into the clouds!

Could be that this present heavens and earth will be brought to a close in our lifetimes. Or the last day of this earth could be way, way off in the future.

We must prepare and plan as though God will not end this earth during our lifetimes while being ready for the end of this earth at any time.

 

[prophecynut]

Originally posted by webdog:

I believe Bible prophecy has to be fulfilled. It wasn't until 1948 that Irael was reborn (Is. 66:8). The last 50 years or so Daniel 12:4 has come to fruition. Same with Zechariah 14:12. 1998 satelite tv was introduced, enabling Revelation 16:18 to be fulfilled. I believe we are the generation that will be called up into the clouds!

Israel becoming a nation was effective Nov. 29, 1947 when the United Nations and Israeli representatives signed on the dotted line of the resolution establishing Israel. The effective date is when the agreement is signed not somewhere down the line when it physically becomes a reality.

The rebirth or restoration of Israel according to the many OT prophecies like Isa. 66:8 will not be fulfilled until after the Second Coming: "For as soon as Zion travailed (Jacob's trouble), she brought forth her children (the "elect" brought back to the Land at the Second Coming, Mt. 24:31).
When Christ returns God "will extend peace to her like a river" (v.12), this will be fulfilled during the Millennium, not now. During the Millennium God will "gather all nations and tongues, and they will come and see my glory," not now (v.18). "All mankind will come and bow down before me," not now (v.23). Scriptures that speak of the current ingathering of Jews are: Zep. 2:1-2; Eze. 22:17-22, 38:8, 39:27.

Fulfillment of Dn. 12:4 is not now, during the Tribulation "many shall run to and fro" to increase knowledge of the prophecies sealed in the scroll when fulfilled during the "time of the end" or the "great tribulation" (Rev. 7:14). The length of this time is a "time, times, and a half" or 3.5 years of the second half of the 70th week (Dn. 12:7).

All of Zec. 14 is fulfilled during the "day of the LORD" verse 1, and not now.

 

[NaasPreacher (C4K)]

Originally posted by webdog:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by C4K:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by yeshua4me2:


of course now is the only time in history in which a "mark for buying and selling" is logicsticly possible",

Does that mean that Jesus could not have come back until now? Was His return not imminent in 1850? </font>[/QUOTE]If were still here now, then no it was impossible for it to have been 1850

I believe Bible prophecy has to be fulfilled. It wasn't until 1948 that Irael was reborn (Is. 66:8). The last 50 years or so Daniel 12:4 has come to fruition. Same with Zechariah 14:12. 1998 satelite tv was introduced, enabling Revelation 16:18 to be fulfilled. I believe we are the generation that will be called up into the clouds! </font>[/QUOTE]I have a difficult time with this line of thought. What you are saying is that no believer before 1948 could expect the return of the Lord to be imminent? Even Hohn wrote, "Even so, come Lord Jesus" and [St] Patrick wrote in Confessio that he was expecting "the soon advent of our Lord." It may very well be that 200 years from now some believer may be saying, "It was not until the second regathering of Isreal in 2150 that the second coming was possible, and not until the invention of the ____________ that it was technologically possible."

 

[prophecynut]

Computer is the answer

 

[NaasPreacher (C4K)]

Originally posted by prophecynut:
Computer is the answer

So you are saying that all the Christians who beleived in the imminent return of Christ before the computer we deceived and believing in vain?

 

[prophecynut]

Not deceived, rather they received incorrect teachings from the prophecy experts concerning imminency.

The understanding of prophecy is progressive, back then the computer was not available, now we know how the Antichrist will use this technology to track everybody.

Mistaken as to imminency of the Rapture or lacking in knowledge has no bearing on our faith in Christ.

 

[Johnv]

Originally posted by prophecynut:
Not deceived, rather they received incorrect teachings from the prophecy experts concerning imminency.

You mean, that hasn't happenned since? I think the past rantings of quacks like Hal Lindsey and the 80's era "Jesus is coming soon" freaks, aka, Jesus movement, is testament that everyone, before 1948 and after, have gotten it wrong so far.

Sorry, we're all going to die of natural causes, not of raptural causes. Yes, I'm prepared should Jesus come tomorrow. But, are YOU prepared if Jesus never came in your lifetime? You'd be surprised how man aren't.

 

[NaasPreacher (C4K)]

I am a pre-trib, pre-mill rapturist, but am disturbed at the newspaper prophecy of today. I once read a book which I wish I could find. It was written by a pre-trib, pre-mil rapturist in the 19th century who wrote a novel about the rapture. He had it all figured out, all of the prophecies determined etc. At the end he said that only then was everything in place for the return of Christ.

Will people look back at us 100 years from now and laugh at our silly errors and conjecture taken as fact?

When John wrote "Even so come Lord Jesus" was he looking in vain? He didn't know that the computer had to be invented first?

This kind of speculation makes me want to change my eschatology .

 

[prophecynut]

I don't know when the teachings of an imminent Rapture began, apparently many years before I came on the scene. Soon after I began studying prophecy I realized imminency was erroneous and the rapture had to be mid-week, pre-trib.

Hal Lindsey is no quack, just because he gave a possible timing scenario for the Second Coming doesn't qualify him as a heretic or false teacher. What about Edgar C. Whisenant or Harold Camping, hard to tell?

According to an OT prophecy, those in the body of Christ today will not all taste death before His appearing. Even if the Rapture was 70 years from now there would be Christians alive at His appearing.

When you say "we're all going to die of natural causes," I'm assuming you mean our generation that began around 1948, if so, you will be the one surprised. Not all of our generation will pass away before the Second Coming, many will have died before it, but not all.

Everyone in Christ is prepared regardless of who they are or what generation they live in, this generation unlike others needs to get ready for the Day of His appearing.

 

[webdog]

Originally posted by Johnv:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by prophecynut:
Not deceived, rather they received incorrect teachings from the prophecy experts concerning imminency.

You mean, that hasn't happenned since? I think the past rantings of quacks like Hal Lindsey and the 80's era "Jesus is coming soon" freaks, aka, Jesus movement, is testament that everyone, before 1948 and after, have gotten it wrong so far.

Sorry, we're all going to die of natural causes, not of raptural causes. Yes, I'm prepared should Jesus come tomorrow. But, are YOU prepared if Jesus never came in your lifetime? You'd be surprised how man aren't. </font>[/QUOTE]This post sounds like something the scoffers out of 2 Peter 3 would say! Your claim that we are all going to die of natural causes is false doctrine.

 

[NaasPreacher (C4K)]

Originally posted by prophecynut:

Everyone in Christ is prepared regardless of who they are or what generation they live in, this generation unlike others needs to get ready for the Day of His appearing.

So no other generation until now needed to be ready for the rapture?