Chip implants and the anti-christ

[Johnv]

Originally posted by Sonjeo:
That is odd because the reason some put them in children and pets is in order to locate them.

A dog can't be identified by the rf chip unless that animal is taken to a shelter that has rf reader technology. A shelter worker must take an rf wand (like the metal detector wands at airports) and run it over the animal. Only then can the rf chip be detected. The RF chip itself gives off no signal and has no power whatsoever. The way the chip works is that, when a radio wave runs over it, the chip reflects the wave back in a specific harmonic. RF chips are only identifiable when exposed to strong radio waves at close range (a few feet or inches). Have you ever bought clothes and set off a detector on the way out of the store? That's an rf chip. Once you leave the store, you're too far away from the detector (you have to be 2 feet or less from it).

Not at all since the topic involves the anti-christ which I would call a dark regime.

Why is it that American Christians are always americacentric? What makes us think that it's the US in the center of end times prophecy? Sounds rather egotistic, doesn't it?

I believe certain signs put the end close but I think there is flexiblity of a hundred years or so, imho.

That same thing has been claimed by people for 2000 years. In fact, people in the 70's were "predicting" that the end would come in the next 30 or 40 years. Well, it's 30 to 40 years later, and they've all been shown to be wrong. Just ask Hal Lindsey, who was HUGE in the 70's. And he's STILL on TV. Go figure.

 

[Sonjeo]

Originally posted by Johnv:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Sonjeo:
That is odd because the reason some put them in children and pets is in order to locate them.

A dog can't be identified by the rf chip unless that animal is taken to a shelter that has rf reader technology. A shelter worker must take an rf wand (like the metal detector wands at airports) and run it over the animal. Only then can the rf chip be detected. The RF chip itself gives off no signal and has no power whatsoever. The way the chip works is that, when a radio wave runs over it, the chip reflects the wave back in a specific harmonic. RF chips are only identifiable when exposed to strong radio waves at close range (a few feet or inches). Have you ever bought clothes and set off a detector on the way out of the store? That's an rf chip. Once you leave the store, you're too far away from the detector (you have to be 2 feet or less from it).

Scanners may only be effective at a few feet now but but how long do you think until they can effectively scan larger areas keeping tabs on everyones movement, give it 10 years easy. Remember, we are not talking about a voluntary situation here but rather a coercive police state enviroment where every cutting edge technological development will be employed. We are entering a dangerous area with all this and we should draw the line and not enter it at all. I wonder if anyone ever realizes the easy efficent way may be the evil way.

Not at all since the topic involves the anti-christ which I would call a dark regime.

Why is it that American Christians are always americacentric? What makes us think that it's the US in the center of end times prophecy? Sounds rather egotistic, doesn't it? [/qb]

We are talking about America here but I for one would include it for every nation of people aspiring to be free. The rationale should apply everywhere and the issue is deeper than particular people or places,of course. "Always Americacentric".To me that is an amazing remark because I have found just the opposite. Let me explain. The U.S. is the most powerful nation militarily and economically the world has ever known in which any nation would be foolish to try to make legitimate war with. We have the majority of Christians apparently caught up with Hal Lindsay and Tim Lahay's, among many others, concept of the endtimes at hand and they cannot find the U.S. in biblical prophecy. Because of what they write the vast majority of Americas would not even consider that the U.S. could be the beast which rises up from the land of Rev. Ch. 13 or mystery babylon. All this seems to me to be very nonamerica-centric to the extreme. It is probably egotistical that Christians in this country think it could never do evil just because they reside here.

I believe certain signs put the end close but I think there is flexiblity of a hundred years or so, imho.

That same thing has been claimed by people for 2000 years. In fact, people in the 70's were "predicting" that the end would come in the next 30 or 40 years. Well, it's 30 to 40 years later, and they've all been shown to be wrong. Just ask Hal Lindsey, who was HUGE in the 70's. And he's STILL on TV. Go figure. </font>[/QUOTE]Yes I remember the 70's. Some were looking for the last 7 years to begin in 1982. I was naive and without much discernment trusting my leaders and what others said. Now we have to ask God to help us think for ourselves but much of the former still goes on big time as we can see. The end time will come and then somebody has to be right eventually. There are too many Christians just saying they are pre-trip and ha ha they are out of here so bring on the toxic waste, famines and sure I'll be part of the groundwork for A.C.'s technological surveillence nightmare and every other conservative money serving, fear induced agenda because, hey I'm outta here but if they are wrong and the end is not as they think then the conditions they allowed are on their children and their children's children. It just pays to be wise with the time you have.

[ August 19, 2005, 04:28 PM: Message edited by: Sonjeo ]

 

[Johnv]

Originally posted by prophecynut:
Yes there is, one of the OT minor prophets has it.

Kindly show us what scripture states that Christ will be coming in our lifetimes (roughly between now and 2050 for most of us).

Not a penny towards retirement in a few years, don't need it.

You're not saving for retirement? You haven't saved any money for retirement? And you're doing this on purpose? Do you honestly think this is responsible behavior for a Christian?

Or are you telling us that putting money in our retirement accounts means we're guilty of not believing scripture?

 

[Johnv]

Originally posted by C4K:
Even though I am pre-mil, pre-trib, I am well prepared to live 110 if that what the Lord desires.

I simply don't know.

Amen, as am I.

I'm fully prepared to live to be 70, 80, 100, or 120, if the Lord allows it. I'm also prepared to be with the Lord tomorrow, if the Lord allows it.

 

[billwald]

"Jesus cannot come back till the 7 year covenant is confirmed, the third temple is built and the Antichrist is reavealed."

Then let's nuke Jerusalem.

 

[Johnv]

Originally posted by Sonjeo:
Scanners may only be effective at a few feet now but but how long do you think until they can effectively scan larger areas keeping tabs on everyones movement, give it 10 years easy.

I think you don't understand rf technology. The rf waves are incapable of travelling anything more than a very short distance. Plus, anything with an RF chip sets off all sorts of rf alarms. At the cmpany I work for, we have ID badges that use an rf card. When held up to a reader, the door is unlocked. I can't go anywhere with the card on me. Whenever I go to a department store, the grocery store, video store, etc, the alarms go off. In fact, it happenned just this morning at a local convenience store. If the laws of physics were someday broken, and my rf card could be read from a far-away location, you'd be seeing alarms going off left and right. No matter how many years pass, 10, 20, or 30, this ain't gonna happen. rf chips have bene around for 20 years, and the only thing that has happenned is that rf readers have become cheaper and lighter. But the inhierent nature of rf technology requires that they be detected at extremely close range.

I'm afraid that your concerns stem from a lack of understanding of the technology and physics behind rf devices. So far, in the history of humankind, we have been unable to change the laws of physics.

Remember, we are not talking about a voluntary situation here but rather a coercive police state enviroment where every cutting edge technological development will be employed.

We have the technology today to track peoples' wearabouts via their cell phones. Where is the outcry from the Christian community that cell phones are the mark fo the beast? Oh wait, that was one of the claims when cell phones were in their infancy. Same with atm cards, credit cards, UPC bar codes, and, at one time, even satellite tv. These were all considered at one time or another to be the mark of the beast. The mark du jour is the rf chip.

We are talking about America here but I for one would include it for every nation of people aspiring to be free.

That is really really stretching scripture so thin you can't walk on it.

Yes I remember the 70's. Some were looking for the last 7 years to begin in 1982. I was naive and without much discernment trusting my leaders and what others said. Now we have to ask God to help us think for ourselves but much of the former still goes on big time as we can see.

And we are no closer to understanding end times prophecy as they. Not even Jesus knew when he would return. Why do we think we will know more than Christ? That is why I say consistently that the best we can do is speculate. When we start pushing our speculations as scripturally accurate, we decieve ourselves, amd we presume Christ.

I for one choose to focuse on, and share the message of, Christ's first coming. I am prepared to be with Christ tomorrow if called. I'm also praparing to live a full life if called.

The only thing I can scripturally be certain of is that we are 2000 years closer to the end of the age than we were when Christ was here.

 

[Sonjeo]

Originally posted by Johnv:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Sonjeo:
Scanners may only be effective at a few feet now but but how long do you think until they can effectively scan larger areas keeping tabs on everyones movement, give it 10 years easy.

[qb]
I think you don't understand rf technology. The rf waves are incapable of travelling anything more than a very short distance. Plus, anything with an RF chip sets off all sorts of rf alarms. At the cmpany I work for, we have ID badges that use an rf card. When held up to a reader, the door is unlocked. I can't go anywhere with the card on me. Whenever I go to a department store, the grocery store, video store, etc, the alarms go off. In fact, it happenned just this morning at a local convenience store. If the laws of physics were someday broken, and my rf card could be read from a far-away location, you'd be seeing alarms going off left and right. No matter how many years pass, 10, 20, or 30, this ain't gonna happen. rf chips have bene around for 20 years, and the only thing that has happenned is that rf readers have become cheaper and lighter. But the inhierent nature of rf technology requires that they be detected at extremely close range.

I'm afraid that your concerns stem from a lack of understanding of the technology and physics behind rf devices. So far, in the history of humankind, we have been unable to change the laws of physics.[qb/]

I understand that but of course I'am not referring to the technology as it is that is why I originally said potential and it is dangerous to get people acclimated to placing any device under the skin.

[qb]Remember, we are not talking about a voluntary situation here but rather a coercive police state enviroment where every cutting edge technological development will be employed.

We have the technology today to track peoples' wearabouts via their cell phones. Where is the outcry from the Christian community that cell phones are the mark fo the beast? Oh wait, that was one of the claims when cell phones were in their infancy. Same with atm cards, credit cards, UPC bar codes, and, at one time, even satellite tv. These were all considered at one time or another to be the mark of the beast. The mark du jour is the rf chip.

You have to appreciate the line that is crossed with making people acceptive planting devices within the body, that is connections that cannot be easily disconnected, to be sure.

We are talking about America here but I for one would include it for every nation of people aspiring to be free.

That is really really stretching scripture so thin you can't walk on it.

Yes I remember the 70's. Some were looking for the last 7 years to begin in 1982. I was naive and without much discernment trusting my leaders and what others said. Now we have to ask God to help us think for ourselves but much of the former still goes on big time as we can see.

And we are no closer to understanding end times prophecy as they. Not even Jesus knew when he would return. Why do we think we will know more than Christ? That is why I say consistently that the best we can do is speculate. When we start pushing our speculations as scripturally accurate, we decieve ourselves, amd we presume Christ.

I for one choose to focuse on, and share the message of, Christ's first coming. I am prepared to be with Christ tomorrow if called. I'm also praparing to live a full life if called.

The only thing I can scripturally be certain of is that we are 2000 years closer to the end of the age than we were when Christ was here. </font>[/QUOTE]

 

[Johnv]

Originally posted by Sonjeo:
I understand that but of course I'am not referring to the technology as it is that is why I originally said potential and it is dangerous to get people acclimated to placing any device under the skin.

I'm trying to tell you that you don't understand the technology. RF waves required to detect an implanted chip are physically incapable of travelling anything further than short distances. This is not because of technology, this is due to the laws of physics. 20 years from now, the laws of physics will remain.

Scripture is very clear that the mark of the beast (assuming it's a literal mark, and not an analogy for something yet uncomprehended) will be "on" the hand, not under the hand or under the skin. So to presume that the rf chip is the mark, or will lead up to the mark, is speculative at best.

You have to appreciate the line that is crossed with making people acceptive planting devices within the body, that is connections that cannot be easily disconnected, to be sure.

In regards to invasion of personal liberty, yes. In regards to end times prophecy, again, sheer speculation.

 

[Sonjeo]

Originally posted by Johnv:

Originally posted by Sonjeo:

We are talking about America here but I for one would include it for every nation of people aspiring to be free.

That is really really stretching scripture so thin you can't walk on it.

The point here is about the america-centric statement. That Lindsay, Lahay and so many others believe this is the endtimes but cannot find the most powerful nation to ever exist on the earth. That is what I call nonamerica-centric.

Yes I remember the 70's. Some were looking for the last 7 years to begin in 1982. I was naive and without much discernment trusting my leaders and what others said. Now we have to ask God to help us think for ourselves but much of the former still goes on big time as we can see.

And we are no closer to understanding end times prophecy as they. Not even Jesus knew when he would return. Why do we think we will know more than Christ? That is why I say consistently that the best we can do is speculate. When we start pushing our speculations as scripturally accurate, we decieve ourselves, amd we presume Christ.

No, we cannot know the exact day or hour but as Jesus said we would know the time is near by the signs at hand. Make no mistake, I consider this speculation. This is not written in stone and I have yet to hear anyone who will say their interpretation of Revelations and the last days is inspired by the Holy Spirit so I certainly agree here, however Jesus said we should be diligent and watch for the signs so all this is about looking for and recognizing the signs of His coming.

 

[Sonjeo]

Originally posted by Johnv:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Sonjeo:
I understand that but of course I'am not referring to the technology as it is that is why I originally said potential and it is dangerous to get people acclimated to placing any device under the skin.

I'm trying to tell you that you don't understand the technology. RF waves required to detect an implanted chip are physically incapable of travelling anything further than short distances. This is not because of technology, this is due to the laws of physics. 20 years from now, the laws of physics will remain.

I'm not so focused here on the RF technology as I'am the broader issue. I understand it's limits but as people's cry for security increase you know different technologies will be introduced. Is it so far fetched that the GPS technology in cell phones can be made smaller and incorporated under the skin with the ID chip also. In the movie "Minority Report" which is supposed to be a plausible extension of present technology people are identified walking by advertisments and billboards. Not GPS but certainly advancement of scanning ability. Carrying information on the chip so transactions can be made in a cashless scenario is objectionable enough but the danger is in crossing that line of allowing device's as standard practice within the person. Everything previously has involved numbers or cards carried on the person, not within the person. I think it is a line that should not be crossed because if we do, we get into the possiblity of being unable to remove it without intended harm. People seem to have a natural repulsion to this and I think the church should do all it can to reinforce this repulsion.

</font>[/QUOTE]Scripture is very clear that the mark of the beast (assuming it's a literal mark, and not an analogy for something yet uncomprehended) will be "on" the hand, not under the hand or under the skin. So to presume that the rf chip is the mark, or will lead up to the mark, is speculative at best.


I agree it is speculative but the fact that a chip implant, not necessarily the RF chip, is on or in the hand(I don't think the scripture is legalistic on this as a chip under the hand can also surface the skin)and can be used to engage point of sale transactions is of serious concern since scripture says no one will be able to buy or sell without the mark. My objections here however are primarily on the potential abuse of privacy and personal liberties under a sooner than you think future dark regime, preA.C., and possibly in your childrens lap. I mean if one thinks possible the last days are 1000yrs. off then we would be naive to believe there will be no more Hitlers on the way and I say deny them this control for the sake of those within that 1000yrs because we can prevent that but since scripture must be fulfilled whatever A.C. must do will occur in his time. Drawing the line now against any such devices within the body is just wise policy.

 

[Johnv]

Originally posted by Sonjeo:
That Lindsay, Lahay and so many others believe this is the endtimes but cannot find the most powerful nation to ever exist on the earth.

Lindsay has been wrong so many times, if I had a dollar for every time he was, I'd be a very wealthy man. And as far as Lahaye, he's at best an adequate writer of fiction. (Certainly, I can't be the only one who thinks that the "Left Behind" series was lousy writing.

 

[tamborine lady]

The left behind series was written to make money for LeHaye and Jenkins, it's as simple as that.

Tam

 

[prophecynut]

Johnv, not the proper time or place to reveal it.

We have less than 10 years.

 

[Johnv]

Originally posted by prophecynut:
Johnv, not the proper time or place to reveal it.

We have less than 10 years.

I'll be here on this board in 2015 to tell you you were as wrong as everyone else.

 

[NaasPreacher (C4K)]

Originally posted by prophecynut:
Johnv, not the proper time or place to reveal it.

We have less than 10 years.

So, do you know the date?

 

[prophecynut]

Which one, His appearing for the Church or the Second Coming in judgment?

 

[Johnv]

Originally posted by prophecynut:
Which one, His appearing for the Church or the Second Coming in judgment?

Both.

 

[prophecynut]

Originally posted by C4K:
So, do you know the date?

Which one C4K?

 

[prophecynut]

Bump, C4K are you refusing to answer my question?

 

[NaasPreacher (C4K)]

Aren't we in an accusatory mood PN?

My enitre life is not spent on the BB.

Do you know the date of the rapture?

Or...do you know the date of His Second Coming?