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Choose ye this day whom ye will serve

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Silverhair

Well-Known Member
First, you don't defend the Bible. You argue for the Silverharian interpretation of the Bible...which,frankly, no one else is doing.
I defended my interpretation of the Bible, showing detailed information in the Bible for why I believe what I believe.
You, not wanting to address scripture and honestly interpret scripture, resort to a strawman of your own making.
Silverharianism is a sham doctrine and you do not like being called out for your sham interpretations.

I really do not know why you fight so hard against the bible? But lets for a moment say you are right, that God determines all things, then if you keep fighting against what I say is biblical and God has determined that I say those things would that not mean that you are fighting against God. See your own theology shows that you are in error. But of course you will deny that as God has determined all that you say and think. And since what you are saying does not line up with the bible then I would have to conclude that you must be one of those that have been given that false sense of salvation so you will feel your condemnation all the more.
 

Silverhair

Well-Known Member
Your statement is outright false, proven false by merely looking at the myriad number of threads where I go through scripture after scripture proving your interpretation to be incorrect.
Your response is almost always against a strawman calvin that you have made up.
Let the readers of this thread recognize your modus operandi.

Actually I have dealt with your scripture that you have presented and pointed out that in your rush to attack others you do not even understand what you have posted.
 

Reformed1689

Well-Known Member
You only wish that what we have pointed out to you as the errors in calvinism were not true. When you deny what we quote from calvinist texts and say it does not mean what it says then who does not understand calvinism.

The only strawman arguments that I see on here are the ones trying to defend the calvinist theology. But keep living in your fantasy world.
The errors you have pointed out don't exist. You don't argue against Calvinism, Like Van, I don't know what you are arguing against but it isn't Calvinism.
 

Reformed1689

Well-Known Member
Actually I have dealt with your scripture that you have presented and pointed out that in your rush to attack others you do not even understand what you have posted.
Let me fix your error here:

YOU rush to attack others so that you do not even understand what THEY have posted.
 

Silverhair

Well-Known Member
According to scripture:
John 10:25-29
Jesus answered them, “I told you, and you do not believe. The works that I do in my Father’s name bear witness about me, but you do not believe because you are not among my sheep. My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me,is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand.
Romans 8:28-39
And we know that for those who love God all things work together for good, for those who are called according to his purpose. For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. And those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified, and those whom he justified he also glorified. What then shall we say to these things? If God is for us, who can be against us? He who did not spare his own Son but gave him up for us all, how will he not also with him graciously give us all things? Who shall bring any charge against God’s elect? It is God who justifies. Who is to condemn? Christ Jesus is the one who died—more than that, who was raised—who is at the right hand of God, who indeed is interceding for us. Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or danger, or sword? As it is written, “For your sake we are being killed all the day long; we are regarded as sheep to be slaughtered.” No, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him who loved us. For I am sure that neither death nor life, nor angels nor rulers, nor things present nor things to come, nor powers, nor height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Ephesians 1:3-14
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places, even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love he predestined us for adoption as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will, to the praise of his glorious grace, with which he has blessed us in the Beloved. In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of his grace, which he lavished upon us, in all wisdom and insight making known to us the mystery of his will, according to his purpose, which he set forth in Christ as a plan for the fullness of time, to unite all things in him, things in heaven and things on earth. In him we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to the purpose of him who works all things according to the counsel of his will, so that we who were the first to hope in Christ might be to the praise of his glory. In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, who is the guarantee of our inheritance until we acquire possession of it, to the praise of his glory.
1 Peter 1:20-21
He was foreknown before the foundation of the world but was made manifest in the last times for the sake of you who through him are believers in God, who raised him from the dead and gave him glory, so that your faith and hope are in God.

As for the sentences in the Bible that you point to...I have gone through each one, showing in context why you have misinterpreted those sentences. Why do you keep regurgitating the verses when those verses prove you wrong?

You keep going back to these verses and why I am not sure. Do you think that I deny what the bible says? Well you must as you keep saying that I do, I have attempted to clear that up but you are not listening. You think that unless someone understands the text as a calvinist would then they cannot really understand the text.

I do not have to read a text and run it through a calvinist filter to understand it. That is on you.

Jesus told the Jewish leaders why they did not understand His words or His works. They were not His sheep. From the human perspective, we become His sheep when we believe; but from Gods’ perspective, we believe because we are His sheep. God foreknows all those that are going to freely trust in His son and we trust in His son when we respond to the gospel message.

I have shown you these text a number of times it the hope that you will actually take them to heart. Trust what the bible says not what you want it to say.

Rom 10:13 for "WHOEVER WILL CALL ON THE NAME OF THE LORD WILL BE SAVED."
Rom 10:14 How then will they call on Him in whom they have not believed? How will they believe in Him whom they have not heard? And how will they hear without a preacher?

Eph 1:13 In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation—having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise,


1Co 15:1 Now I make known to you, brethren, the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received, in which also you stand,
1Co 15:2 by which also you are saved, if you hold fast the word which I preached to you, unless you believed in vain.
1Co 15:3 For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received, that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures,
1Co 15:4 and that He was buried, and that He was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures,

I just read the text and it is clear what the text says, I do not have to read into or change the meaning of words. Perhaps this time you will actually believe what these verses say.
 

Silverhair

Well-Known Member
The errors you have pointed out don't exist. You don't argue against Calvinism, Like Van, I don't know what you are arguing against but it isn't Calvinism.

Then it seems clear that you are in denial about what calvinism is. When we quote calvinists and you say that is not what calvinists say, well what more can I say.
 

Van

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Exactly, I do not think @Silverhair @Van or @SavedByGrace have ever actually argued against Calvinism, they think they have, but pretty much they have been putting forth nothing but one massive strawman theology that has vague echos of Calvinism to you read what they are arguing Calvinism says, then you realize you have no idea what they are actually arguing against because it doesn't exist.
One false claim after another. First I am called a Calvinism basher, then said I have not argued against Calvinism.
Then my objective evidence, Calvinism claimed God did not command all people to repent, which is an unbiblical claim is falsely called a strawman. But this irrefutable truth is not addressee.
 

Silverhair

Well-Known Member
Calvinist view

The central truth proclaimed by Calvinism, Calvinism that is faithful to its heritage, is the absolute sovereignty of God." Calvin expressly taught that it is God's sovereign decision to determine whether an individual is saved or damned.

As a Calvinist, I believe God's Sovereignty to mean God has actively decreed all that will come to pass, and has done so for His glory in all things. God knows all that will come to pass because He has determined it, however not in the passive sense like I determine the temperature of water by touching it. Rather, God has actively determined all that will come to pass, and nothing occurs outside of God's decree.

Are either of these stated views wrong about calvinism?
 

AustinC

Well-Known Member
You keep going back to these verses and why I am not sure. Do you think that I deny what the bible says? Well you must as you keep saying that I do, I have attempted to clear that up but you are not listening. You think that unless someone understands the text as a calvinist would then they cannot really understand the text.

I do not have to read a text and run it through a calvinist filter to understand it. That is on you.

Jesus told the Jewish leaders why they did not understand His words or His works. They were not His sheep. From the human perspective, we become His sheep when we believe; but from Gods’ perspective, we believe because we are His sheep. God foreknows all those that are going to freely trust in His son and we trust in His son when we respond to the gospel message.

I have shown you these text a number of times it the hope that you will actually take them to heart. Trust what the bible says not what you want it to say.

Rom 10:13 for "WHOEVER WILL CALL ON THE NAME OF THE LORD WILL BE SAVED."
Rom 10:14 How then will they call on Him in whom they have not believed? How will they believe in Him whom they have not heard? And how will they hear without a preacher?

Eph 1:13 In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation—having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise,


1Co 15:1 Now I make known to you, brethren, the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received, in which also you stand,
1Co 15:2 by which also you are saved, if you hold fast the word which I preached to you, unless you believed in vain.
1Co 15:3 For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received, that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures,
1Co 15:4 and that He was buried, and that He was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures,

I just read the text and it is clear what the text says, I do not have to read into or change the meaning of words. Perhaps this time you will actually believe what these verses say.
Yes, I think you deny what the Bible says in those passages.
And, you choose to reduce the Bible to an out of context sound byte when you quote the Bible.
You use Silverhairian goggles on the Bible. And those goggles are far, far, worse than either Calvin or Arminius wore.
 

AustinC

Well-Known Member
Calvinist view

The central truth proclaimed by Calvinism, Calvinism that is faithful to its heritage, is the absolute sovereignty of God." Calvin expressly taught that it is God's sovereign decision to determine whether an individual is saved or damned.

As a Calvinist, I believe God's Sovereignty to mean God has actively decreed all that will come to pass, and has done so for His glory in all things. God knows all that will come to pass because He has determined it, however not in the passive sense like I determine the temperature of water by touching it. Rather, God has actively determined all that will come to pass, and nothing occurs outside of God's decree.

Are either of these stated views wrong about calvinism?
Off topic. This thread isn't about John Calvin. You are speaking to your strawman again.
 

Reformed1689

Well-Known Member
One false claim after another. First I am called a Calvinism basher, then said I have not argued against Calvinism.
Then my objective evidence, Calvinism claimed God did not command all people to repent, which is an unbiblical claim is falsely called a strawman. But this irrefutable truth is not addressee.
Because I have already told you AGREE that God commanded all to repent. So quit claiming that I didn't. That's called dishonesty.
 

Reformed1689

Well-Known Member
Then it seems clear that you are in denial about what calvinism is. When we quote calvinists and you say that is not what calvinists say, well what more can I say.
Proof? Where have I done this? Where do you QUOTE Calvinists and not paraphrase incorrectly?
 

Silverhair

Well-Known Member
Yes, I think you deny what the Bible says in those passages.
And, you choose to reduce the Bible to an out of context sound byte when you quote the Bible.
You use Silverhairian goggles on the Bible. And those goggles are far, far, worse than either Calvin or Arminius wore.


You are funny, and you should take that as a complement.
 

Silverhair

Well-Known Member
Because I have already told you AGREE that God commanded all to repent. So quit claiming that I didn't. That's called dishonesty.

You can claim to be that you agree with the bible but if what you say and post dos not show that what would you expect me to say?
 

AustinC

Well-Known Member
I quote what they say you just do not like what they say.
Your theology has you standing with your feet firmly planted in the air.
I quoted Bible passages where my theology comes from. You refuse to accept or admit that my theology comes from the Bible. Silverhair, my faith is grounded wholly in the Bible and what it teaches. No matter how desperate you are to ascribe it to something else, my faith is wholly grounded in the Bible. My theology is wholly grounded in the Bible.

You have created a strawman and false assertion against me, which makes you a deceptive person.
 
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