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Christ died for the dead in hell?
- Thread starter Duzt
- Start date
Scripture please!1 Pay no attention to those who make assertions about what the Bible teaches without citing the verse or passage where the doctrine is taught. The claim was none of the lost can discern spiritual truth, but Matthew 23:13 teaches some of lost were entering the kingdom. The exact opposite of the assertion.
Another answering a question with a question post. You did not;support your false claim, Go figure.
The verse does not say "all spiritual things" yet that was your adulteration. Folks, pay no attention to those who misrepresent what the bible actually says to push false theology.
The verse does not say "all spiritual things" yet that was your adulteration. Folks, pay no attention to those who misrepresent what the bible actually says to push false theology.
1 Corinthians 2:9 But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.
2:10 But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.
2:11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.
2:12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
2:13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
2:15 But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.
2:16 For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ.
I agree post scripture then back up what you say by the scriptures you post... Don't post opinion and leave others hanging... I post scripture and let scripture speak for itself... Comparing scripture with scripture... Brother Glen
Thanks Tyndale 1946, for supporting my view with scripture. Fallen man has limited spiritual ability, being able to understand spiritual milk but not spiritual meat. Verses 9-12 teaches the inability to understand spiritual meat until indwelt. In verse 14, the spiritual things in view are spiritual meat. Here are the verses that continue your passage.
Thus fallen men can receive some spiritual things, spiritual milk which includes the fundamentals of the gospel.
Thus fallen men can receive some spiritual things, spiritual milk which includes the fundamentals of the gospel.
Scripture says they cannot accept those things.
See post #66 for scripture that teaches fallen men can understand spiritual milk.
Perhaps you need evaluate 1 Corinthians 2 and realize it is not written to "fallen men."
Paul makes that distinction in which the difference between the saved and unsaved is that the unsaved have NO ability to understand, and at least the believers have some measure of ability.
If one does not attend to this Scripture properly, it can be twisted into that which you seem to embrace by stating that "fallen man has limited spiritual ability."
Fallen man may have the ability to learn, as one may learn the times tables, or the alphabet, and may even be endowed with ability to choose the appropriate principle expressed by Scriptures. This is why even some pastors remain unsaved though gifted at "ear tickling."
But when it comes to Spiritual matters, there is no ability, for such is discerned by the Holy Spirit and given specifically by the Holy Spirit to believers according to their growth in Christ.
Perhaps if you recognized the difference between intellectual acuity and spiritual discernment, then this passage would become more understanding as not supporting your thinking.
1) Scripture means what it says, Paul spoke to new believers as to men of flesh.
2) Paul does not teach fallen men have no ability to receive spiritual milk.
3) Saying fallen man has limited spiritual ability is not twisting scripture, Matthew 23:13 clearly indicates fallen men were seeking God, actually in the process of entering the kingdom.
4) Yes the visible church has both tares and wheat.
5) Claiming fallen people have no ability while ignoring scriptures teaching otherwise, such as 1 Cor. 3:1 cuts no mustard.
6) Questioning my comprehension cuts no mustard either.
2) Paul does not teach fallen men have no ability to receive spiritual milk.
3) Saying fallen man has limited spiritual ability is not twisting scripture, Matthew 23:13 clearly indicates fallen men were seeking God, actually in the process of entering the kingdom.
4) Yes the visible church has both tares and wheat.
5) Claiming fallen people have no ability while ignoring scriptures teaching otherwise, such as 1 Cor. 3:1 cuts no mustard.
6) Questioning my comprehension cuts no mustard either.
It is wrong thinking that Paul is allowing any "fallen" (lost, unsaved, heathen, separated from God) men having any desire to seek God much less some ability to seek God.1) Scripture means what it says, Paul spoke to new believers as to men of flesh.
2) Paul does not teach fallen men have no ability to receive spiritual milk.
3) Saying fallen man has limited spiritual ability is not twisting scripture, Matthew 23:13 clearly indicates fallen men were seeking God, actually in the process of entering the kingdom.
4) Yes the visible church has both tares and wheat.
5) Claiming fallen people have no ability while ignoring scriptures teaching otherwise, such as 1 Cor. 3:1 cuts no mustard.
6) Questioning my comprehension cuts no mustard either.
The Scriptures cannot be twisted into such a scheme.
True, as they are spiritually discerned, and the lost siinner does not have that capability in t hej
There are two types of men that are both "men of flesh"
One is that of a believer. Believers come in two types. Those who are babies and cannot tolerate anything more then milk. Hopefully they will eventually become the second type, ones who could consume the meat. These are both capable of spiritual discernment. These are the audience of 1 Corinthians 3.
The other "men of flesh" is that of an unbeliever. There is no presence of the Holy Spirit, no ability to spiritually discern the mysteries (as Paul stated in Corinthians 13 - know all mysteries...) and may have all intellectual understanding (example: Nicodemus) and may strive in the flesh to attain some righteousness (example: rich young ruler) but are never the less unable, unconcerned, and repulsed by God (Book of John). These are also called "wise after the flesh..." (1 Corinthians 1:26)
Matthew 23:13 is misused by your statement, and your thinking has been soundly refuted in other threads on this verse.
That you continue in desperation to cling to what is not Scriptural in this matter is alarming.
Yet another "taint so" post using the fallacy of personal incredulity. Folks, this is all they have got.
False, there are the lost, men of flesh, and the saved, spiritual men.
Born anew believers, that have not yet grown in respect to salvation are still "fleshy" carnal, and babes in Christ needing milk and not meat. But they are not men of flesh, but like men of flesh need milk.
Yes men of flesh are unsaved and unable to discern spiritual meat. But no scripture says that some of them, some of the time do not seek God and fully trust in Christ. That claim has been shown false time and time again with verses like Matthew 23:13, and 1 Cor. 3:1.
My thinking has not been refuted, such claims pointing to the unreferenced past are just more fiction.