Christianity and Paganism - What is the Truth?

[Adonia]

The charge has been made here that the Latin Rite of Christianity is somehow part and parcel of paganism. Why single out the Catholic faith tradition out when all of Christianity could also be seen as likewise guilty of the same charge?

Where did it start? Let us go back 3500 years where the "god" Mitra is found in the Indian Vedic religion. Fast forward 1500 years to 1500 BCE where Mitra made it to the Near East (Assyria). This "Mitra" then evolved into "Mithra", the Persian derivative, who was a "benevolent god" and the bestower of health, wealth and food. Mithra also seems to have been looked upon as a sort of Prometheus, for the gift of fire. (Schironi, 104) His worship purified and freed the devotee from sin and disease. So what else do we know about Mithra?

• Mithra was born on December 25th of the virgin Anahita.
• The babe was wrapped in swaddling clothes, placed in a manger and attended by shepherds.
• He was considered a great traveling teacher and master.
• He had 12 companions or "disciples."
• He performed miracles.
• As the "great bull of the Sun," Mithra sacrificed himself for world peace.
• He ascended to heaven.
• Mithra was viewed as the Good Shepherd, the "Way, the Truth and the Light," the Redeemer, the Savior, the Messiah.
• Mithra is omniscient, as he "hears all, sees all, knows all: none can deceive him."
• He was identified with both the Lion and the Lamb.
• His sacred day was Sunday, "the Lord's Day," hundreds of years before the appearance of Christ.
• His religion had a eucharist or "Lord's Supper."
• Mithra "sets his marks on the foreheads of his soldiers."
• Mithraism emphasized baptism.

So we can see that while we all believe Jesus is indeed the true God, the Creator Himself incarnated on this earth, it's origins from paganism do indeed exist and they exist for all of Christianity, not just one particular Christian faith tradition.

 

[Jason1]

The charge has been made here that the Latin Rite of Christianity is somehow part and parcel of paganism. Why single out the Catholic faith tradition out when all of Christianity could also be seen as likewise guilty of the same charge?

Where did it start? Let us go back 3500 years where the "god" Mitra is found in the Indian Vedic religion. Fast forward 1500 years to 1500 BCE where Mitra made it to the Near East (Assyria). This "Mitra" then evolved into "Mithra", the Persian derivative, who was a "benevolent god" and the bestower of health, wealth and food. Mithra also seems to have been looked upon as a sort of Prometheus, for the gift of fire. (Schironi, 104) His worship purified and freed the devotee from sin and disease. So what else do we know about Mithra?

• Mithra was born on December 25th of the virgin Anahita.
• The babe was wrapped in swaddling clothes, placed in a manger and attended by shepherds.
• He was considered a great traveling teacher and master.
• He had 12 companions or "disciples."
• He performed miracles.
• As the "great bull of the Sun," Mithra sacrificed himself for world peace.
• He ascended to heaven.
• Mithra was viewed as the Good Shepherd, the "Way, the Truth and the Light," the Redeemer, the Savior, the Messiah.
• Mithra is omniscient, as he "hears all, sees all, knows all: none can deceive him."
• He was identified with both the Lion and the Lamb.
• His sacred day was Sunday, "the Lord's Day," hundreds of years before the appearance of Christ.
• His religion had a eucharist or "Lord's Supper."
• Mithra "sets his marks on the foreheads of his soldiers."
• Mithraism emphasized baptism.

So we can see that while we all believe Jesus is indeed the true God, the Creator Himself incarnated on this earth, it's origins from paganism do indeed exist and they exist for all of Christianity, not just one particular Christian faith tradition.

The catholic church is the mother and her daughters are the protestants (protesting catholics). The mother created her own religion based off of a perverted judaism and also paganized syncretism (combining multiple religions). The mother also changed commandments such as the 7th day sabbath to her mark, the 1st day sabbath, and her daughters continue on in this today.

Best thing to do: Come out of her my people

 

[Adonia]

The catholic church is the mother and her daughters are the protestants (protesting catholics). The mother created her own religion based off of a perverted judaism and also paganized syncretism (combining multiple religions). The mother also changed commandments such as the 7th day sabbath to her mark, the 1st day sabbath, and her daughters continue on in this today.

Best thing to do: Come out of her my people

You fail to acknowledge the pagan roots of YOUR Christian faith tradition, why? This reality not only applies to us my friend.

As for the rest of your charges, the Church, yes the Church that was given the power to "bind and loose" things here on earth by God Himself Incarnated, did indeed have the legal power to do all those things. (You need to read your Bible - it's all there in black and white).

 

[Jason1]

You fail to acknowledge the pagan roots of YOUR Christian faith tradition, why? This reality not only applies to us my friend.

As for the rest of your charges, the Church, yes the Church that was given the power to "bind and loose" things here on earth by God Himself Incarnated, did indeed have the legal power to do all those things. (You need to read your Bible - it's all there in black and white).

They were to bind and loose based upon scripture. The catholic church and her daughters don't have authority to change scripture.

 

[Adonia]

They were to bind and loose based upon scripture. The catholic church and her daughters don't have authority to change scripture.

The One Universal (Catholic) Christian Church has all the authority in the world, you are obstinate in your rejection of this. A case in fact, the Scriptures themselves were first put together by the Bishops of the One Universal (Catholic) Christian Church - there were no other leaders of the subsequent Christian faith traditions involved. Not one Baptist pastor, not one SDA prophet, not one Church of Christ leader was involved - not one!

 

[Jason1]

The One Universal (Catholic) Christian Church has all the authority in the world, you are obstinate in your rejection of this. A case in fact, the Scriptures themselves were first put together by the Bishops of the One Universal (Catholic) Christian Church - there were no other leaders of the subsequent Christian faith traditions involved. Not one Baptist pastor, not one SDA prophet, not one Church of Christ leader was involved - not one!

LOL - what a joke. The catholic church is prime evil.

 

[Adonia]

LOL - what a joke. The catholic church is prime evil.

And pray tell friend, to what Christian sect do you belong to?

 

[Jason1]

And pray tell friend, to what Christian sect do you belong to?

No christian sect. I left the Whore and her protesting daughters years ago.

 

[MennoSota]

The charge has been made here that the Latin Rite of Christianity is somehow part and parcel of paganism. Why single out the Catholic faith tradition out when all of Christianity could also be seen as likewise guilty of the same charge?

Where did it start? Let us go back 3500 years where the "god" Mitra is found in the Indian Vedic religion. Fast forward 1500 years to 1500 BCE where Mitra made it to the Near East (Assyria). This "Mitra" then evolved into "Mithra", the Persian derivative, who was a "benevolent god" and the bestower of health, wealth and food. Mithra also seems to have been looked upon as a sort of Prometheus, for the gift of fire. (Schironi, 104) His worship purified and freed the devotee from sin and disease. So what else do we know about Mithra?

• Mithra was born on December 25th of the virgin Anahita.
• The babe was wrapped in swaddling clothes, placed in a manger and attended by shepherds.
• He was considered a great traveling teacher and master.
• He had 12 companions or "disciples."
• He performed miracles.
• As the "great bull of the Sun," Mithra sacrificed himself for world peace.
• He ascended to heaven.
• Mithra was viewed as the Good Shepherd, the "Way, the Truth and the Light," the Redeemer, the Savior, the Messiah.
• Mithra is omniscient, as he "hears all, sees all, knows all: none can deceive him."
• He was identified with both the Lion and the Lamb.
• His sacred day was Sunday, "the Lord's Day," hundreds of years before the appearance of Christ.
• His religion had a eucharist or "Lord's Supper."
• Mithra "sets his marks on the foreheads of his soldiers."
• Mithraism emphasized baptism.

So we can see that while we all believe Jesus is indeed the true God, the Creator Himself incarnated on this earth, it's origins from paganism do indeed exist and they exist for all of Christianity, not just one particular Christian faith tradition.

Adonia, do you know when the first, extant, writings of Mithra can be dated? (Hint: There are no manuscripts)

The earliest manuscripts for the gospels are within 40-50 years of Jesus life on earth. Would you care to venture a guess as to the distance in time from the claims of Mithra and the earliest manuscript for Mithra? (Hint: There are no manuscripts)
Exploding the Mithras Myth : Strange Notions

 

[MennoSota]

The One Universal (Catholic) Christian Church has all the authority in the world, you are obstinate in your rejection of this. A case in fact, the Scriptures themselves were first put together by the Bishops of the One Universal (Catholic) Christian Church - there were no other leaders of the subsequent Christian faith traditions involved. Not one Baptist pastor, not one SDA prophet, not one Church of Christ leader was involved - not one!

Adonia, there was no one, universal church, when the various bishops came together and shared the writings they had from the Apostles. The church in Antioch was considered the primary church, but the church in Rome had political power. Basically the church at Rome took the lead and grew strong, not by spiritual might, but by political alliance to the Roman Empire. Thus the separation of church and state was forcibly removed within the Roman Empire, however, the Coptic church and Orthodox church were never under Roman dominion.

As for Jason, he's a part of a cult called the Hebrew Roots, which denies the deity of Jesus and requires people to be redeemed under the burden of the Mosaic law. He's antagonistic to Christianity. Hopefully one day he will be granted God's grace. Until then we pray for him to have his eyes opened to the good news of Yeshua, YHWH himself.

 

[Jason1]

As for Jason, he's a part of a cult called the Hebrew Roots, which denies the deity of Jesus and requires people to be redeemed under the burden of the Mosaic law. He's antagonistic to Christianity. Hopefully one day he will be granted God's grace. Until then we pray for him to have his eyes opened to the good news of Yeshua, YHWH himself.

This guy has no clue about the hebrew roots movement, lol

 

[saved by grace]

Adonia, there was no one, universal church, when the various bishops came together and shared the writings they had from the Apostles. The church in Antioch was considered the primary church, but the church in Rome had political power. Basically the church at Rome took the lead and grew strong, not by spiritual might, but by political alliance to the Roman Empire. Thus the separation of church and state was forcibly removed within the Roman Empire, however, the Coptic church and Orthodox church were never under Roman dominion.

As for Jason, he's a part of a cult called the Hebrew Roots, which denies the deity of Jesus and requires people to be redeemed under the burden of the Mosaic law. He's antagonistic to Christianity. Hopefully one day he will be granted God's grace. Until then we pray for him to have his eyes opened to the good news of Yeshua, YHWH himself.

When in your opinion did the "bishops" come together and share the writings they had from the apostles. What year are you talking about?

 

[MennoSota]

When in your opinion did the "bishops" come together and share the writings they had from the apostles. What year are you talking about?

I was referring to the council of Nicea.

 

[saved by grace]

After Nicaea in 325 there still wasn't any 27 book Canon. The first list was by Athanasius in 367. I don't see how you can hold that the wasn't one universal Church. How many Churches were there in the first 4 centuries? All these other churches also had bishops?

 

[Adonia]

Adonia, there was no one, universal church, when the various bishops came together and shared the writings they had from the Apostles. The church in Antioch was considered the primary church, but the church in Rome had political power. Basically the church at Rome took the lead and grew strong, not by spiritual might, but by political alliance to the Roman Empire. Thus the separation of church and state was forcibly removed within the Roman Empire, however, the Coptic church and Orthodox church were never under Roman dominion.

As for Jason, he's a part of a cult called the Hebrew Roots, which denies the deity of Jesus and requires people to be redeemed under the burden of the Mosaic law. He's antagonistic to Christianity. Hopefully one day he will be granted God's grace. Until then we pray for him to have his eyes opened to the good news of Yeshua, YHWH himself.

You mean he keeps kosher and adheres to the other over 600 OT commands? Wow! I sure couldn't do that and because of Jesus I don't have to.

If I am not mistaken, the Eastern Orthodox and the Western (Roman) Rite were in accord until the split sometime in the 1000's. Not sure about the Coptic's though.

 

[MennoSota]

You mean he keeps kosher and adheres to the other over 600 OT commands? Wow! I sure couldn't do that and because of Jesus I don't have to.

If I am not mistaken, the Eastern Orthodox and the Western (Roman) Rite were in accord until the split sometime in the 1000's. Not sure about the Coptic's though.

My point is that there was not one dominant church over all the land until after Constantine made the Roman Empire and Roman church rule over all areas. Before this, each church had various parts of the scripture, but there was no agreement because the churches were outlawed by the Roman Empire. The council of Nicea brought together the various groups to help determine what texts the various churches had and whether they were to be a part of the canon.
The Apostle Peter was never a Pope at Rome. The papacy was established after the Roman Empire declared the Roman church to be the main church of the Empire.

 

[Christine Baker]

The catholic church is the mother and her daughters are the protestants (protesting catholics). The mother created her own religion based off of a perverted judaism and also paganized syncretism (combining multiple religions). The mother also changed commandments such as the 7th day sabbath to her mark, the 1st day sabbath, and her daughters continue on in this today.

Best thing to do: Come out of her my people

Come out of her to what?

 

[Christine Baker]

One book I found most liberating was 'A Nearly Infallible History of Christianity' by Nick Page.

 

[saved by grace]

My point is that there was not one dominant church over all the land until after Constantine made the Roman Empire and Roman church rule over all areas. Before this, each church had various parts of the scripture, but there was no agreement because the churches were outlawed by the Roman Empire. The council of Nicea brought together the various groups to help determine what texts the various churches had and whether they were to be a part of the canon.
The Apostle Peter was never a Pope at Rome. The papacy was established after the Roman Empire declared the Roman church to be the main church of the Empire.

My point is that there was not one dominant church over all the land until after Constantine made the Roman Empire and Roman church rule over all areas. Before this, each church had various parts of the scripture, but there was no agreement because the churches were outlawed by the Roman Empire. The council of Nicea brought together the various groups to help determine what texts the various churches had and whether they were to be a part of the canon.
The Apostle Peter was never a Pope at Rome. The papacy was established after the Roman Empire declared the Roman church to be the main church of the Empire.

There was only one dominant Church before Constantine. You see the word Catholic all over the place when you read the Church Fathers. Whether or not you think that is the same Catholic Church that exists today is a different question. The "various" groups at Nicaea were all Catholic Bishops. The Bishops who held Arianism at the Council of Nicaea were also Catholic which is why the Council was held in the first place. I think the Easter Controversy of the 2nd century shows that the Bishop of Rome had authority over every Bishop West and East. They may not have been called Popes but they had the authority.

 

[Jason1]

Come out of her to what?

Come out of her (paganism, disobedience) to a life of obedience to the Father and not under man-made religion.

The churches are not the answer, they're the trap. They teach you to disobey the Father and obey their "works of the law" (their words). By which no man shall be justified.

Start keeping the sabbath to honor the Creator -- no manner of work done.

Start eating kosher so you are not as ephraim was prophesied to be and forget who he was.

Be the prodigal son and repent and go back to the Father humbly (no spitting) and ask to be joined back to Him in covenant.

Obey every word that comes out of the Father's mouth that is directed at you so that you may live. (Deu 32:47, Matt 19:17)

Rev 14:12 Here is the endurance of the set-apart ones,1 here are those guarding the commands of Elohim and the belief of Yeshua.