Christianity Today: Trump Should Be Removed

[Reformed1689]

No one is minimizing it. However, the sins of our President are no less. They are just different. As a Christian, the church must confront sin in the camp. Let us not minimize any sin.

Again, I think you are failing to see the difference between church offices and state offices.

 

[Calminian]

No one is minimizing it. However, the sins of our President are no less. ....

Interesting that instead of using yourself, you attack someone else and point out their sins. Why do this? Are the Presidents sins more sever than yours? Why not use yourself in that example?

And why compare at all? Why is it if someone steals or lies, we call out the sin, but for homosexuality we immediately dismiss it as no worse than any other sin? Why is this the only sin that has to be immediately compared?

 

[Particular]

Again, I think you are failing to see the difference between church offices and state offices.

This has nothing to do with office. This has to do with how the church treats a member who is publicly sinning.

 

[Particular]

Interesting that instead of using yourself, you attack someone else and point out their sins. Why do this? Are the Presidents sins more sever than yours? Why not use yourself in that example?

And why compare at all? Why is it if someone steals or lies, we call out the sin, but for homosexuality we immediately dismiss it as no worse than any other sin? Why is this the only sin that has to be immediately compared?

Have I been publicly ridiculing people and cursing my enemies?
If I am publicly in sin, my church will be sure to confront me and call me to repentance.

 

[Calminian]

Have I been publicly ridiculing people and cursing my enemies?

What specifically did Trump say that makes you think he deserves Church discipline? Does this include jokes? Is joking sinful?

And are you calling out Democrats also for this? They also publicly ridicule very often. Or do you just selectively call out Trump? And isn't that sin?

 

[Calminian]

This has nothing to do with office. This has to do with how the church treats a member who is publicly sinning.

So, is Trump a member of your Church? Should you be calling out the sins of other Church members?

 

[Particular]

What specifically did Trump say that makes you think he deserves Church discipline? And are you calling out Democrats also for this? They also publicly ridicule very often. Or do you just selectively call out Trump? And isn't that sin?

"I could stand in the middle of Fifth Avenue and shoot people and I wouldn't lose voters."

"Lyin' Ted Cruz just used a picture of Melania from a G.Q. shoot in his ad. Be careful, Lyin' Ted, or I will spill the beans on your wife!”

"It must be a pretty picture, you dropping to your knees.”

"A person who is very flat-chested is very hard to be a 10.”

"You know, it really doesn’t matter what the media write as long as you’ve got a young and beautiful piece of ass.”

 

[Particular]

So, is Trump a member of your Church? Should you be calling out the sins of other Church members?

The entire church in the US should call out the sins of a President who claims the name of Christ. This is precisely why Bill Clinton, a member of the SBC, should have been called to be removed as well. We hold Christians to the standard that Christ has set for us. When we speak or act wrongly, the body calls out the sin.

 

[Reformed1689]

This has nothing to do with office. This has to do with how the church treats a member who is publicly sinning.

I would say it is both but they are separate issues that you are combining into one issue.

 

[Particular]

I would say it is both but they are separate issues that you are combining into one issue.

No, I am trying to explain why the CT is calling out President Trump. They are voicing the call of Christians around the world to have President Trump repent or be removed from fellowship.

 

[Particular]

Imo, it is the inconsistent display.

Had they called out other believers who were presidents, then it would have been more palatable.

CT was started by Billy Graham. He held the ear of EVERY president from Eisenhower until he died. Yet not a word.

Yet, here comes a man who is to be removed for less than that done by Kennedy, Johnson, Carter, Reagan, Clinton?

At least the Bush folk were known for some moral and ethical holdings. Reagan came in close. But the rest? Buzzards.

CT was removed from the control of the Graham empire, which did allow him to move a different direction, but still even from him nor CT a single word.

So it is just wrong. The editorial should never ave been allowed.

Trump isn’t sleeping with actresses. Trump isn’t walking around nude in the Whitehouse showing off his dangles, Trump isn’t apologizing for America, Trump isn’t running a contra or Bay of Pigs, Trump isn’t ...

Trump is a loud mouth, offensive, but highly effective administrator.

Where most were buzzards, Trump might be roadkill?

Hard to miss, ugly to look at, stinks unattractively, and picked on by buzzards.

No offense intended to the office, but the men who occupied it, well they have someone a lot better to stand before.

I believe the first article said that CT called for the removal of Bill Clinton when the Monica Lewinsky scandal broke. You can go back and read it, but I am pretty sure the editor said that CT did that with Clinton.

I don't know of any person in my church that had they talked like President Trump, the church would stay silent. In fact, the church would confront that person and call them to repentance. But, President Trump declared he has no need to repent when he was on the campaign trail. That statement was a red flag for me in 2016.

 

[HankD]

I believe the first article said that CT called for the removal of Bill Clinton when the Monica Lewinsky scandal broke. You can go back and read it, but I am pretty sure the editor said that CT did that with Clinton.

I don't know of any person in my church that had they talked like President Trump, the church would stay silent. In fact, the church would confront that person and call them to repentance. But, President Trump declared he has no need to repent when he was on the campaign trail. That statement was a red flag for me in 2016.

I and many others considered the RED FLAG OF BLOOD and the alternative candidates who openly SUPPORT INFANTICIDE, LATE TERM ABORTION, ABORTION, EUTHANASIA and EUGENICS.

 

[Calminian]

"I could stand in the middle of Fifth Avenue and shoot people and I wouldn't lose voters."

"Lyin' Ted Cruz just used a picture of Melania from a G.Q. shoot in his ad. Be careful, Lyin' Ted, or I will spill the beans on your wife!”

"It must be a pretty picture, you dropping to your knees.”

"A person who is very flat-chested is very hard to be a 10.”

"You know, it really doesn’t matter what the media write as long as you’ve got a young and beautiful piece of ass.”

Wow you're going back more than 3 years. That is pathetic. Doesn't scripture tell us not to keep a record of wrongs?

The irony is, Ted Cruz forgave the President and supports him very strongly. Yet you're trying to erase the peace between them. Isn't that a sin? Aren't you supposed to be a peacemaker?

To me this is much more sinful than what Trump is doing. I would direct you to the Sermon on the Mount.

And I still support my President, flaws and all. Not perfect, but neither are you.

 

[Calminian]

No, I am trying to explain why the CT is calling out President Trump. They are voicing the call of Christians around the world to have President Trump repent or be removed from fellowship.

Christ said, don't judge lest you be judge, and for good reason. By taking this hardline nitpicking Trump's sins, you've brought yourself under a microscope, and you're not fairing well. Same is true of CT.

 

[agedman]

I believe the first article said that CT called for the removal of Bill Clinton when the Monica Lewinsky scandal broke. You can go back and read it, but I am pretty sure the editor said that CT did that with Clinton.

I don't know of any person in my church that had they talked like President Trump, the church would stay silent. In fact, the church would confront that person and call them to repentance. But, President Trump declared he has no need to repent when he was on the campaign trail. That statement was a red flag for me in 2016.

I deleted my post, because it went beyond being gracious to buzzards.

Here is my opinion.

Were Trump a member of my assembly, then certainly there would be some discipleship training. He is not.

Were he a Baptist (although he did recently attend) then there may be some obligation to consider. There was such a review made when Carter enjoyed the comforts of the people’s house. It came down to his own assembly, though.

Trump, imo, is unnecessarily abrasive.

That shows a lack of fruit by the Holy Spirit.

Trump is also narcissistically inclined.
So his single focus is self.
If it is good for him it is good for the country.
What he can discern the country desires will, in turn, keep him powerful feeding his needs as he graciously bestows what may be necessary to keep his narcissistic personality fed.
Narcissistic personalities have a single goal. Themself.

The Scriptures present that God continues to move in the working of leaders to do His will. Accordingly, He is well in control of Trump.

What the believers response is and must be, is prayer.

Therefore, the CT call about Trump should not be the call for removal but for prayer.

Removal is not ours to determine, but prayer is certainly what Scriptures desire.

If God wants him removed then removed he will be, until then we are to pray.

CT was wrong (has been for some time) in lack of focusing upon the Scripture principles and delivery of such principles without personal agenda to the readers.

Again, my apologies to the noble buzzards.
They do what few would desire to do, aren’t even paid to do, but do thrive on the misfortune of others.

 

[Particular]

Wow you're going back more than 3 years. That is pathetic. Doesn't scripture tell us not to keep a record of wrongs?

The irony is, Ted Cruz forgave the President and supports him very strongly. Yet you're trying to erase the peace between them. Isn't that a sin? Aren't you supposed to be a peacemaker?

To me this is much more sinful than what Trump is doing. I would direct you to the Sermon on the Mount.

And I still support my President, flaws and all. Not perfect, but neither are you.

You asked for quotes, now you move the goalpost. It would be nice if you just acknowledge what he said. There are pastor's being fired for less who said stuff further back in time. Is a Christian President held to a lower standard?

 

[HankD]

You asked for quotes, now you move the goalpost. It would be nice if you just acknowledge what he said. There are pastor's being fired for less who said stuff further back in time. Is a Christian President held to a lower standard?

where does it say anywhere that a president should be a CHRISTIAN?
Then why ask?

 

[Particular]

I and many others considered the RED FLAG OF BLOOD and the alternative candidates who openly SUPPORT INFANTICIDE, LATE TERM ABORTION, ABORTION, EUTHANASIA and EUGENICS.

Hank, I understand. This is called: The Ends Justify The Means. It's situational ethics.
That was the point that CT was attempting to make. Christians have justified voting for a person who claims Christ, but has not represented Christ, because the ends, which you point out, justify your reason for voting for Donald Trump. Christians turn their moral eyes away to justify a greater moral good.

 

[RighteousnessTemperance&]

Thanks for the link. I heard the comment. I agree with him. I pray for the peace of the city. I want people to prosper. I do not want evil for anyone. That's called...grace. We extend grace to sinners. Homosexuality is no worse of a sin than gossipping and unbeliever's do both. Even believers do both...just as heterosexual Christians still commit sexual sins.
What we desire for all is that they/we repent and submit ourselves under the Sovereign authority of God.
If President Trump were not a Christian there could be no demand from Christians that he change his behavior. He would be acting naturally, like self-centered sinners do. But, since he claims the name of Christ, he is held to the standard of all servants of the King. He is to treat others, even enemies, with a Godward nature. The editor is saying that Trump has failed to represent Christ to the world and therefore should be removed from his office. We would do the same thing if a pastor acted the way President Trump has acted toward the unsaved.
Or, maybe some churches would not reprimand their pastor for being unloving, mean spirited and vindictive...as long as the church prospered financially. I can't speak for other churches, but my pastor's would be reprimanded and likely removed.

It is past time to put the lie to such unreasoned mischaracterizations and begin understanding what has been happening in society and the church. This is not about Christian love but LGBTQ+ hate, and they are full of it.

The statement was entirely political and immoral, highlighting, in the guise of civil rights, support for the LGBTQ+ agenda, intent on aggressively, progressively imposing on society its perverse forms of sexuality as if normal. There is no good excuse for a Christian to spout such nonsense, but for someone to do so as some sort of mainstream spokesman is extremely damaging to both the body and gospel of Christ, as well as to society.

The way he grinned when he caught himself saying “every,” then swithing to “a variety” was especially odious to those of us whose memories are seared with the efforts of NAMBLA to legitimize pedophilia. The inroads these perverts are now making through “story hour” in public libraries and “show 'n' tell” in kindergartens is nightmarish.

What was bad enough as humorous innuendo has become legalized reality and it is only getting worse because of too many ignorant enough to think it normal and too many sideliners bent on excusing it. We now have openly homosexual soldiers and same-sex marriage with adoptions. They (Obama) even forced the military to accept transsexuals and finance their surgery. LGBTQ+ militants sue Christians for not approving their perversions. This is the sort of prospering he was speaking of, and thank God, Trump has gotten in the way of some of this.

 

[Reformed1689]

No, I am trying to explain why the CT is calling out President Trump. They are voicing the call of Christians around the world to have President Trump repent or be removed from fellowship.

Except that is not what they are doing. They are saying repent or be removed from the presidency. Again, you are confusing state issues and church issues.