"Christian's Don't Sin" part 2

[DHK]

You are incoherent in your theology. God covers all your sins, never to be remembered again, but wow! He is going to take my life over some sin, He said He would not remember. What kind of doctrine is that.

BBob,

Why do you read into posts things that were never posted. Who said anything about God taking your life. There is that "deceitfulness" again.
Let's look at the post you are responding to again:

Originally Posted by DHK
Either you have the blood covering all your sin or you don't.
Either you are saved or you are not.
There is no inbetween, Bob. You can't sit on the fence.
You can't be born again and again and again.
Once saved always saved, and always does the blood cover all sin!

Never once did I say or suggest that God was going to take your life. So why did you say that? It is being deceitful. It is putting words into my mouth. It is again, a form of bearing false witness--breaking the Ten Commandments.

The post is about the blood.
It is the blood that covers all of our sin--past, present, and future.
One either has the blood covering his sin or he doesn't, That is he is either saved or he isn't. There is no inbetween position.
Once saved always saved, and always does the blood cover all sin!!

To suggest that I said that "God is going to take my life over some sin I don't remember," is blatant misrepresentation of what I said. Again, you will give account of this; of bearing false witness.
What is the difference of bearing false witness and rape or adultery.
They are both breaking the Ten Commandments, both found in Exodus 20, both sins that God abhors. What makes you think that you can get by with one sin and not the other?

 

[Brother Bob]

Listen up Bob,
In a recent post HP (who does not believe in eternal security) said that your theology was inconsistent. He agreed to that much.
You have stated:
1. You believe in eternal security (as we do also).
2. You also believe (contrary to eternal security) that a believer that commits adultery cannot enter heaven. This goes contrary to eternal security and even denies the very doctrine.
3. On the one hand you say that you believe the same as we do--eternal security.
4. On the other hand, in the practical outworking of your theology it is full of inconsistencies which deny not only eternal security, but also the sufficiency of the shed blood of Jesus Christ, and even the atonement.

Thus these discussions have dragged on. You say one thing, in agreement with us, and then tell us something entirely different.

Let me kinda straighten you out on what I believe. I have said I believe in eternal security and I do. I have also said that I do not believe that adulterers go to heaven, except they have repented and been born again.

Here is the clincher, I have also said that I do not believe that a believer OSAS will commit adultery for God keeps him by His power and therefore God will not let him fall away into adultery.

You see DHK; you think you know what everyone believes but will not admit that your theology of all your sins, never will be remembered, but low and behold, God will take the life of a believer for sin.

That sir, is incoherent.

BBob,

 

[Brother Bob]

Why do you read into posts things that were never posted. Who said anything about God taking your life. There is that "deceitfulness" again.
Let's look at the post you are responding to again:

Never once did I say or suggest that God was going to take your life. So why did you say that? It is being deceitful. It is putting words into my mouth. It is again, a form of bearing false witness--breaking the Ten Commandments.

The post is about the blood.
It is the blood that covers all of our sin--past, present, and future.
One either has the blood covering his sin or he doesn't, That is he is either saved or he isn't. There is no inbetween position.
Once saved always saved, and always does the blood cover all sin!!

To suggest that I said that "God is going to take my life over some sin I don't remember (You are incoherent in your theology. God covers all your sins, never to be remembered again, but wow! He is going to take my life over some sin, He said He would not remember. What kind of doctrine is that. Again, didn't say you wouldn't remember, you said God would not remember.)
," is blatant misrepresentation of what I said. Again, you will give account of this; of bearing false witness.
What is the difference of bearing false witness and rape or adultery.
They are both breaking the Ten Commandments, both found in Exodus 20, both sins that God abhors. What makes you think that you can get by with one sin and not the other?
[/i]

If I show you where you did say that God would take your natural life, because of the sin of a believer, will you apologize??

BBob,

 

[Nicholas25]

I do not believe in OSAS, but I also do not believe in being saved by works. I believe one has to keep their faith in Christ and I do not think faith is a work. Romans 5:1 tells us we are justified by faith.

 

[annsni]

I do not believe in OSAS, but I also do not believe in being saved by works. I believe one has to keep their faith in Christ and I do not think faith is a work. Romans 5:1 tells us we are justified by faith.

Thank you. While I DO believe in OSAS, I think I understand your stance. We do not lose our salvation by sin. We lose it by losing our faith in Christ - that we shun and walk away from Him. I do not believe that but I can respect that theology. Atleast I don't have to worry that if I do something wrong (like lust - which is as the sin of adultery), I'm condemned to hell without knowing it.

 

[DHK]

If I show you where you did say that God would take your natural life because of sin of a believer, will you apologize??

BBob,

Yes Bob,
You show me in this post the one in question or in the context of our discussion,

Originally Posted by DHK
Either you have the blood covering all your sin or you don't.
Either you are saved or you are not.
There is no inbetween, Bob. You can't sit on the fence.
You can't be born again and again and again.
Once saved always saved, and always does the blood cover all sin!

Where I said, "God would natural life because of the sin of a believer," I will apologize immediately.

But as you can see, there is no such statement in that post.
Therefore can I expect an apology coming from you since in the post under discussion no such statement was made.

 

[Brother Bob]

Yes Bob,
You show me in this post the one in question or in the context of our discussion,

Where I said, "God would natural life because of the sin of a believer," I will apologize immediately.

But as you can see, there is no such statement in that post.
Therefore can I expect an apology coming from you since in the post under discussion no such statement was made.
[/i]

Originally Posted by Brother Bob
If I show you where you did say that God would take your natural life because of sin of a believer, will you apologize??

BBob,

I said nothing about the post you just put up. I said what I said.

Don't you post the same doctrine, or does your theology change from thread to thread??

DHK:
A sin unto death is a physical sin committed by a Christian. The context says it is. James uses the word "brother," meaning Christian. We have no other choice but to believe that this is speaking of Christians.

The sin is physical.
Two examples: 1. Ananias and Sapphira were killed on the spot for their lie and their hypocrisy. Yes, I believer they were saved.
2. The believers in Corinth (1Cor.11:30)--some of them were killed by God for abusing the Lord's Table
--In both cases they died as a result of the judgement of God of bringing shame or reproach on the name of Christ. God judges sin. There is a consequence for sin; if not in this life, then in the life to come. We cannot determine what the judgment is, and it is not for us to outguess God. That is just plain wrong.
http://www.baptistboard.com/showpost.php?p=1276075&postcount=6

BBob,

 

[DHK]

I said nothing about the post you just put up. I said what I said.

Don't you post the same doctrine, or does your theology change from thread to thread??


BBob,

Bob, it is time to grow up!
You have been a member here since 2005.
If I want to play your game I can do a search and find all the anomalies in your doctrine from various forums throughout various years since you have been here.

I don't need to do that. I don't need to let my mind wander from forum to forum or even from thread to thread.
Can't you even keep a discussion centered on one thread, one discussion, even one post??

I make a post. Instead of answering it, you reference something that was said perhaps in another forum, another thread, hey--maybe even another month; whatever. If you really have to post what I have said in the past then put it in quotes from the exact thread and post #, with the URL. Otherwise stick to the thread in question, and particularly the post that is being discussed. Try carrying on a discussion.

 

[Brother Bob]

Bob, it is time to grow up!
You have been a member here since 2005.
If I want to play your game I can do a search and find all the anomalies in your doctrine from various forums throughout various years since you have been here.

I don't need to do that. I don't need to let my mind wander from forum to forum or even from thread to thread.
Can't you even keep a discussion centered on one thread, one discussion, even one post??

I make a post. Instead of answering it, you reference something that was said perhaps in another forum, another thread, hey--maybe even another month; whatever. If you really have to post what I have said in the past then put it in quotes from the exact thread and post #, with the URL. Otherwise stick to the thread in question, and particularly the post that is being discussed. Try carrying on a discussion.

This is no game, you have continously pushed this doctrine, so I figured you would stand up for it. I naturally thought that is what you believed. Have I been wrong in your belief?

Are you now admitting that your doctrine was abnormal???

If you had of looked close, you would of seen the thread and post #. You posted it about 3 weeks ago. Have you changed your mind in 3 weeks. I hope so, maybe we can have some good discussions.

You have thrown up to me quotes from months, maybe years ago. I don't mind, I stand behind what I believe. I will not refrain from what doctrine I have put forth, unless I am convinced I am wrong, which has not happened so far. If convinced, I will be the first to say, I was wrong.

BBob,

 

[DHK]

This is no game, you have contineously pushed this doctrine, so I figured you would stand up for it. I naturally thought that is what you believed. Have I been wrong in your belief?

Are you now admitting that your doctrine was abnormal???

BBob,

Are you admitting you can't carry on an intelligent discussion?
I make a post, and you don't answer it.
Instead you bring in red herrings.
You post something that I said on August 18, but today is Sept. 1.
You show your inability to carry on a discussion, and how apt you are at avoiding tough questions.

 

[Brother Bob]

Are you admitting you can't carry on an intelligent discussion?
I make a post, and you don't answer it.
Instead you bring in red herrings.
You post something that I said on August 18, but today is Sept. 1.
You show your inability to carry on a discussion, and how apt you are at avoiding tough questions.

Na, you are the one calling me a liar and will not even stand up for your own doctrine three weeks later. Sad, call it a red herring.

I ask you if I could show you WHERE, you had said God would take your natural life, would you apologize. You said YES. Apparently you just can't bring yourself to it. I have apologized to you several times. When I feel I should, I have no problem whatsoever doing it.

Tough questions..............:laugh:

BBob,

 

[DHK]

Tough questions..............:laugh:

BBob,

Yes they are tough questions Bob.
It seems to be a pattern with you. Here now is the fourth time that I am asking you to respond to the same post (or questions). (I definitely detect a pattern here). I hope that it doesn't end in the same manner it did the last time I asked you a question.
Let's try again. It is a simple post being asked for the nth time now:

Originally Posted by DHK
Either you have the blood covering all your sin or you don't.
Either you are saved or you are not.
There is no inbetween, Bob. You can't sit on the fence.
You can't be born again and again and again.
Once saved always saved, and always does the blood cover all sin!

Does the blood cover ALL your sins Bob?
Does it cover the ones where you have misrepresented us or borne false witness?
Does it cover the ones where believers have committed adultery?
What difference is there between bearing false witness and committing adultery?
Both are a transgression of the law.
Once saved always saved, and always does the blood cover all sin!
Isn't that statement always true for every believer, Bob?

 

[EdSutton]

No, I do not believe they will.
The point was if they are a @%#$^*&), they are not indwelt with the Holy Ghost, for the Holy Ghost would have to go with them to commit the act.

[Blanked out to keep down 'Google' pop-up ads, that I don't want to see appear on the page.]

Uh' doesn't the Holy Spirit go with Christinas whenever they "commit any act" of sin, regardless of the supposed "severity?"

Isn't He just as present when one takes a fountain pen that does not belong to him, as when one steals a million dollars via fraud? Aren't both stealing, for an example, that won't generate the unwanted ads?

FTR, I've been away for 5 days, before now, and just getting back to reading the posts.

Ed

 

[Brother Bob]

[Blanked out to keep down 'Google' pop-up ads, that I don't want to see appear on the page.]

Uh' doesn't the Holy Spirit go with Christinas whenever they "commit any act" of sin, regardless of the supposed "severity?"

Isn't He just as present when one takes a fountain pen that does not belong to him, as when one steals a million dollars via fraud? Aren't both stealing, for an example, that won't generate the unwanted ads?

FTR, I've been away for 5 days, before now, and just getting back to reading the posts.

Ed

If you steal you steal Ed. God will not let His children go far enough to lose their salvation. You do believe in OSAS don't you. The children of God, do not commit the unrighteous sin that sends you to hell. They do though, commit a sin not unto death as Jesus said a brother commits. I can show you the scripture if you like, where Jesus speaks of what kind of sin a brother commits.

Can you show me the scripture where a believer commits an unrighteous sin, that brings death, but it is covered with the blood, so it don't count. Please show me where scripture says a believer can commit such sins, but as DHK says, God can't see the sin, He sees the sinning, but He can't see the sin. You are an intelligent man Ed. Explain what DHK is saying when He says, God can't see the sin, but He sees you sinning. Its incoherent to me. How about playing a little fair here Ed, and point out some of the others commits that don't make sense, will you. You been gone for five days, guess who's post you jumped on first? Strange!

You could start with DHK saying now that it was abnormal for him to post 3 weeks ago, that His sins are covered and God does not remember them any more, but if you sin a certain sin, God will take your life. But now, says, he never said such a thing. That would be a good point to start with Ed, in trying to not be partial and just be fair with us all. Think you could do that Ed., or would it just not fit in your purpose on this board.

Yes the blood covers all sin, but God is the one who has the blood and it is God who adds to the church daily such as should be saved and guess what is used to cover that one who is added to the church, thats right, the atonement, or the "blood of the Lamb".

Also Ed, Jesus commanded, not just said, but He commanded for the woman to "go and sin no more".

Also Ed. Jesus said, he that delivered me unto you hath the greater sin.

Also Ed. Jesus said, all unrighteous is sin, AND there is a sin not unto death. Ed, Jesus separated the two sins here Himself.

Also Ed., I believe I saw where you amend that all your sins were covered at the cross and never to be remembered against you any more. I also think you said those who took the bread unworthily and now sleep, was God taking their natural lives, for sin, that He was not supposed to remember against them anymore. (correct me if I am wrong, I am working on memory here).
Could you explain to me how it is coherent to never remember your sins, but then again, take your natural life for sin. That might help several of us, if you could explain how God said He would never remember them anymore, but does.

BBob,

 

[Brother Bob]

Yes they are tough questions Bob.
It seems to be a pattern with you. Here now is the fourth time that I am asking you to respond to the same post (or questions). (I definitely detect a pattern here). I hope that it doesn't end in the same manner it did the last time I asked you a question.
Let's try again. It is a simple post being asked for the nth time now:

Does the blood cover ALL your sins Bob?
Does it cover the ones where you have misrepresented us or borne false witness?
Does it cover the ones where believers have committed adultery?
What difference is there between bearing false witness and committing adultery?
Both are a transgression of the law.
Once saved always saved, and always does the blood cover all sin!
Isn't that statement always true for every believer, Bob?


[/i]

Yes, His blood covers all of your sins and you are made white as snow. You then don't need anymore blood, for you just do not commit the grevious or unrighteous sins. You do commit the sin not unto death for the rest of your life and need the advocate with God, which is Jesus Christ.

This answers your question for the uptenth time, if you have trouble understanding the answer, maybe your wife or one of your children could help you. I am getting tired of answering it over and over.


BBob,

 

[JerryL]

Thank you. While I DO believe in OSAS, I think I understand your stance. We do not lose our salvation by sin. We lose it by losing our faith in Christ - that we shun and walk away from Him. I do not believe that but I can respect that theology. Atleast I don't have to worry that if I do something wrong (like lust - which is as the sin of adultery), I'm condemned to hell without knowing it.

Perseverance - We believe that there are strong grounds to hope that the saved will persevere unto the end and be saved because of the power of divine grace pledged for their support. We believe that any saved person who has sinned (whether we call him a backslider or sinner), but has a desire to repent, may do so and be restored to God's favor and fellowship. Since man, however, continues to have free choice, it is possible because of temptations and the weakness of human flesh for him to fall into the practice of sin and to make shipwreck of his faith and be lost. http://www.nafwb.org/believe

Not really Ann. Sin is very much instrumental in whether they(Freewill Baptists) are saved or not. The way I read it, they don't have an eternal hope, they have an eternal maybe.

 

[annsni]

Not really Ann. Sin is very much instrumental in whether they(Freewill Baptists) are saved or not. The way I read it, they don't have an eternal hope, they have an eternal maybe.

**SHUDDER** That brings me right back to that Catholic upbringing I had. What a sad Christian life, IMO. I know God's grace is abounding. I know because of that grace I don't WANT to sin but goodness, it's so ingrained. I just thank God that He's merciful enough to chastise me when I need it - but He is always my Father. I cannot lose that. I can't imagine wondering if I ever did lose it because of whatever I may do.

 

[EdSutton]

If you steal you steal Ed. God will not let His children go far enough to lose their salvation. You do believe in OSAS don't you. The children of God, do not commit the unrighteous sin that sends you to hell. They do though, commit a sin not unto death as Jesus said a brother commits. I can show you the scripture if you like, where Jesus speaks of what kind of sin a brother commits.

Can you show me the scripture where a believer commits an unrighteous sin, that brings death, but it is covered with the blood, so it don't count. Please show me where scripture says a believer can commit such sins, but as DHK says, God can't see the sin, He sees the sinning, but He can't see the sin. You are an intelligent man Ed. Explain what DHK is saying when He says, God can't see the sin, but He sees you sinning. Its incoherent to me. How about playing a little fair here Ed, and point out some of the others commits that don't make sense, will you. You been gone for five days, guess who's post you jumped on first? Strange!

You could start with DHK saying now that it was abnormal for him to post 3 weeks ago, that His sins are covered and God does not remember them any more, but if you sin a certain sin, God will take your life. But now, says, he never said such a thing. That would be a good point to start with Ed, in trying to not be partial and just be fair with us all. Think you could do that Ed., or would it just not fit in your purpose on this board.

Yes the blood covers all sin, but God is the one who has the blood and it is God who adds to the church daily such as should be saved and guess what is used to cover that one who is added to the church, thats right, the atonement, or the "blood of the Lamb".

Also Ed, Jesus commanded, not just said, but He commanded for the woman to "go and sin no more".

Also Ed. Jesus said, he that delivered me unto you hath the greater sin.

Also Ed. Jesus said, all unrighteous is sin, AND there is a sin not unto death. Ed, Jesus separated the two sins here Himself.

Also Ed., I believe I saw where you amend that all your sins were covered at the cross and never to be remembered against you any more. I also think you said those who took the bread unworthily and now sleep, was God taking their natural lives, for sin, that He was not supposed to remember against them anymore. (correct me if I am wrong, I am working on memory here).
Could you explain to me how it is coherent to never remember your sins, but then again, take your natural life for sin. That might help several of us, if you could explain how God said He would never remember them anymore, but does.

BBob,

What I believe is irrelevant to the thread. I have offered nothing, as to what I believe (although this should not be especially hard to find from almost 7K posts, and I have no intention of typing out a course sylabus for Systematic Theology 101, here), but merely asked a question.

As to what DHK may have said, I have not read every thing he has written, but I notice he has written several posts on these two threads. Ask him, not me.

BTW, Jesus did not say "all unrighteousness is sin, and there is a sin not unto death," John did.

ASlo I responed to the threads as I came to them. I actully responded to two threads, last evening, with three responses to the other one, specifically the posts of Gerhard Ebersoehn, which happened to be 'below' this one, on the page.

FTR, I am not jumping on a person for a post, I am "jumping on a theology" that attempts to define what Scripture does not, namely the specific definition of the "sin unto death." Is there a sin leading to death? Of course. Is there a sin not leading to death? Of course. These are both listed in a 2 verse section of Scripture, in I John 5, and, IMO, one has probably not commited any sin that leads to death, BTW, if he or she is still breathing. (The reverse is not necessarily true, since every Christian who dies, has obviously commited no such sin - e.g. Stephen and James for two Biblical examples.)

16 If anyone sees his brother sinning a sin which does not lead to death, he will ask, and He will give him life for those who commit sin not leading to death. There is sin leading to death. I do not say that he should pray about that. 17 All unrighteousness is sin, and there is sin not leading to death. (I Jn. 5:16-17 - NKJV)

I have mentioned this before, as well, concerning "sin leading to death". I have also offered that the closest thing I have found Biblically for an example of this are two examples. First, Ananias and Sapphira (Ac. 4:32- 5:11) 'They lied; they died.' Note Scripture does not say they were lost, at all, but they were a part of "the multitude of those who believed." Second, those spoken of in Corinth (I Cor. 11:30) who were partaking of the Lord's Supper in an unworthy manner. Did you note that they were "chastened". Only believers are said to be "chastened", in the Bible, which incidentally does not always equal death (II Cor.6:9), and never the unbelievers. The unbeliever is said to be under condemnation, and that already. (Mk. 16:16; Jn. 3:18)

I therefore note that "lying to the Hoy Spirit" was "sin leading to death" for Ananias and Sapphira, because I believe Scripture shows this. I also note that some of the Corinthians committed "sin leading to death" in another manner, for the same reason of Scripture's declaration. Categorizing other sins as this are opinion, from what I see, and your opinion is no better than mine, nor is mine any better than yours. Scripture does address this, as to any further specifics. Therefore, neither will I.

Ed

 

[Brother Bob]

ED:
BTW, Jesus did not say "all unrighteousness is sin, and there is a sin not unto death," John did.

I will address this only. All scripture is given by the inspiration of God, regardless who said it. Don't you agree.

BBob,

 

[bound]

Grace and Peace,

Personally, I know Christians sin as a fact.

If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
(I John 1:8)

I know that repeatedly St. John the Theologian exhorts us 'not to sin' and even states that 'if we sin, the Lord is not in us' but he also states...

My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous: And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
(I John 2:1-2)

Personally, I know Christians sin but I also believe that we should always fight against our Old Nature and struggle to throw off the Old Man but this most always be seen as a response to what God has done for us first and foremost.

To grasp at our own Justification is simply not our mission, in my humble opinion but to bare good fruits not for our reward but for the glory of God.