'Christians don't sin'

[trustitl]

Do you notice how they change the subject, instead of giving you an honest answer. They are ashame that they believe you can die in the act of adultery and go to Heaven. If I was ashame of my doctrine, I would get rid of it. They are not bold enough to stand up and tell you they believe that a believer in the act of adultery will still go to Heaven.
Shameful.

BBob,

Waiting for an honest answer from you Bob.


You have said that a Christian can sin. Can you give me an example of a sin that a Christian can commit? And then can you tell me if he can die in the act of doing it?

For example, can a Christian have an outburst of anger? Or,
Can a Christian call his brother a fool(or some other name, like "you idiot")?
Can a Christian ever have a lustful thought?
Can a Christian, even the most immature one, ever do a good deed so others will think highly of him?
Can a Christian ever worry about being able to pay his bills?
Can a Christian even be fearful?
Can a Christian ever be deceptive for selfish reasons?
Can a Christian ever be jealous?

Or possibly, tell me a sin you have committed since you were saved. You don't need to be detailed, just let me understand what type of sins are acceptable or are able to be forgiven.

 

[Brother Bob]

Waiting for an honest answer from you Bob.


You have said that a Christian can sin. Can you give me an example of a sin that a Christian can commit? And then can you tell me if he can die in the act of doing it?

For example, can a Christian have an outburst of anger? Or,
Can a Christian call his brother a fool(or some other name, like "you idiot")?
Can a Christian ever have a lustful thought?
Can a Christian, even the most immature one, ever do a good deed so others will think highly of him?
Can a Christian ever worry about being able to pay his bills?
Can a Christian even be fearful?
Can a Christian ever be deceptive for selfish reasons?
Can a Christian ever be jealous?

Or possibly, tell me a sin you have committed since you were saved. You don't need to be detailed, just let me understand what type of sins are acceptable or are able to be forgiven.

Lord teaches you when you sin, so look to him for that. You don't sin against me, you sin against him.

If you are ever chastised by the Lord for a sin you committed, well that was a sin not unto death. If it had of been a sin unto death, even He said, I would not say to pray for that man.

You give your answer to the question of whether believers who die in the very act of adultery go to Heaven??

Are you ashame to answer? Are you ashame of your own doctrine????

BBob,

 

[ajg1959]

Lord teaches you when you sin, so look to him for that. You don't sin against me, you sin against him.

If you are ever chastised by the Lord for a sin you committed, well that was a sin not unto death. If it had of been a sin unto death, even He said, I would not say to pray for that man.

You give your answer to the question of whether believers who die in the very act of adultery go to Heaven??

Are you ashame to answer? Are you ashame of your own doctrine????

BBob,

I am not ashamed to answer it.

There is not a sin in the world that is stronger than the Grace of God. It is not the individual sins that a person commits that doom him to hell, it is the nature of sin within us that does. The ONLY sin that will send you to hell is the sin of unbelief.

Once a person has trusted in the Grace of God through Christ, he is no longer subject to the law, and all is forgiven. This does not mean he can do as he wishes and sin at will, but it does mean his sins are covered by the sacrificial blood of Jesus.

IF a person can lose his salvation by sinning then the Gospel of Grace is a lie. If I had the power to be sinless then I would not need Grace.

So my answer is a definate NO.....a person cannot do anything to lose his salvation, even commit adultery, whether he is dyng or not.

You sir, are the one with honesty issues if you expect us to believe that you live sinlessly.

AJ

 

[Brother Bob]

I am not ashamed to answer it.

There is not a sin in the world that is stronger than the Grace of God. It is not the individual sins that a person commits that doom him to hell, it is the nature of sin within us that does. The ONLY sin that will send you to hell is the sin of unbelief.

Once a person has trusted in the Grace of God through Christ, he is no longer subject to the law, and all is forgiven. This does not mean he can do as he wishes and sin at will, but it does mean his sins are covered by the sacrificial blood of Jesus.

IF a person can lose his salvation by sinning then the Gospel of Grace is a lie. If I had the power to be sinless then I would not need Grace.

So my answer is a definate NO.....a person cannot do anything to lose his salvation, even commit adultery, whether he is dyng or not.

You sir, are the one with honesty issues if you expect us to believe that you live sinlessly.

AJ

You sir, are the one with honesty issues if you expect us to believe that you live sinlessly.

AJ

A false statement.............,Why tell lies about me, If the truth is not enough to condemn, why do you tell lies. I sin but not the kind of sins you believe that a saved person can commit, but with you believing that people in the very act of adultery, and dying goes to heaven. Who cares what you think.

So you believe you could go over and be in the act of raping your neighbors wife and die, and still go to Heaven. Would you be praising the Lord at the same time you were committing the act???

BBob,

 

[trustitl]

Are you ashame to answer? Are you ashame of your own doctrine????
BBob,

Come on Bob, these are your words. Answer my question. It appears that you won't answer even if I answer yours.

 

[DHK]

A false statement.............,Why tell lies about me, If the truth is not enough to condemn, why do you tell lies. I sin but not the kind of sins you believe that a saved person can commit, but with you believing that people in the very act of adultery, and dying goes to heaven. Who cares what you think.

So you believe you could go over and be in the act of raping your neighbors wife and die, and still go to Heaven. Would you be praising the Lord at the same time you were committing the act???

BBob,

You won't even give an honest answer to your own question Bob. You either evade questions or add a caveat as you did to this one. Let's ask the question again?

So you believe you could go over and be in the act of raping your neighbors wife and die, and still go to Heaven.

Don't answer the question with another question.
A simple yes or no will do.

Remember, this is not that we believe that this is going to happen with you.
It is pure speculation. It is a hypothetical case. IF....

 

[Brother Bob]

You won't even give an honest answer to your own question Bob. You either evade questions or add a caveat as you did to this one. Let's ask the question again?
Don't answer the question with another question.
A simple yes or no will do.

Remember, this is not that we believe that this is going to happen with you.
It is pure speculation. It is a hypothetical case. IF....
[/b]

So all of you believe if you are in the act of raping your neighbors little girl and he shoots you between the eyes with a .38, that you will go to heaven and he will go to heaven also, if you all are so call Christians.

hypothetical or not, all of you said it was "true". That seems to be the "crux" of your belief. Sorry to say.

BBob,

 

[DHK]

You won't even give an honest answer to your own question Bob. You either evade questions or add a caveat as you did to this one. Let's ask the question again?
Don't answer the question with another question.
A simple yes or no will do.
[/b]

You have just demonstrated to all the board that you cannot and will not answer a simple yes and no question without any caveats involved. You answered the question again with another question which is no answer at all. Try again. This time with just a simple answer or no. After all that is what you demand of us.

So you believe you could go over and be in the act of raping your neighbors wife and die, and still go to Heaven?

 

[Brother Bob]

You have just demonstrated to all the board that you cannot and will not answer a simple yes and no question without any caveats involved. You answered the question again with another question which is no answer at all. Try again. This time with just a simple answer or no. After all that is what you demand of us.

So you believe you could go over and be in the act of raping your neighbors wife and die, and still go to Heaven?

No, but that is what you and the others believe, according to your posts. It is sorrowful and sad, that you believe such a
thing.

Absolute Christian Perfection. The Thread.
The tense in that verse is present continuous. It refers to a person persisting in a sinful lifestyle. A person who commits adultery may go to heaven. He may even go to heaven while he is in the act of committing adultery.
__________________
DHK

BBob,

 

[DHK]

No, but that is what you and the others believe, according to your posts. It is sorrowful and sad, that you believe such a
thing.

BBob,

Bob, of course we trust that such a thing would never happen.
But even the best of men have sinned, such as David, a man after God's own heart, and many Godly men in this Age of Grace.
The fact that you take such a position, by answering "no" is evidence of one of two things:
1. You deny eternal security, or
2. You deny that the blood of Christ is sufficient enough to cover all your sins.

Which of the two positions is correct?
For we do assume that you as a Pastor for these many years are truly saved.

 

[Brother Bob]

Bob, of course we trust that such a thing would never happen.
But even the best of men have sinned, such as David, a man after God's own heart, and many Godly men in this Age of Grace.
The fact that you take such a position, by answering "no" is evidence of one of two things:
1. You deny eternal security, or
2. You deny that the blood of Christ is sufficient enough to cover all your sins.

Which of the two positions is correct?
For we do assume that you as a Pastor for these many years are truly saved.

There is a third choice and that is that I deny that that person had salvation to start with. That is the position I take.

1. I believe in OSAS.

2. I believe the blood of Christ is sufficient to cover all sin, if you "believe".

Jud 1:4For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.

Mat 15:8This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with [their] lips; but their heart is far from me.

Gal 2:4And that because of false brethren unawares brought in, who came in privily to spy out our liberty which we have in Christ Jesus, that they might bring us into bondage:



2Cr 11:15Therefore [it is] no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.

BBob,

 

[EdSutton]

I did not plan to get back into this thread, at all, but "repented" long enough to say this.

Personally, I've wondered why far more threads seem to keep popping up about doing stuff that is wrong, than the number of threads about doing stuff that is right?

Ed

 

[DHK]

There is a third choice and that is that I deny that that person had salvation to start with. That is the position I take.

1. I believe in OSAS.

2. I believe the blood of Christ is sufficient to cover all sin, if you "believe".

Jud 1:4For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.

Mat 15:8This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with [their] lips; but their heart is far from me.

Gal 2:4And that because of false brethren unawares brought in, who came in privily to spy out our liberty which we have in Christ Jesus, that they might bring us into bondage:

2Cr 11:15Therefore [it is] no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.

BBob,

Bob you are the one in the driver's seat, remember?
You said "no" to the question asked of you.
You are saved, and it is impossible for you to sin such a sin.
But we know that Godly men do sin, even grievously.

Therefore, when that happens:
either you deny OSAS, or
You deny the suffiency of the blood of Christ,
But the option of calling them false teachers is not open, unless you are calling yourself a false teacher and describing yourself putting yourself in this category.

The premise of this conversation started with you answering a question. It is based on what a Godly man would do, or the possibility of what could happen to a Godly man. Godly men don't turn into false teachers, so that is not a possibility. Are you a false teacher? Do you fit the description of Jude 1:4 or Mat. 15:8? Then you can't use those verses. We are speaking of Godly men who fall into sin. They are saved. There are only two options that I know of;
Either one must deny the sufficiency of the blood of Christ,
or deny eternal security.

The option of calling a Godly man, such as David, a false and ungodly teacher is not there.

 

[Brother Bob]

Bob you are the one in the driver's seat, remember?
You said "no" to the question asked of you.
You are saved, and it is impossible for you to sin such a sin.
But we know that Godly men do sin, even grievously.

I know nothing about Godly men sinning grievously. Jesus said not to even pray for them.

Therefore, when that happens:
either you deny OSAS, or
You deny the suffiency of the blood of Christ,
But the option of calling them false teachers is not open, unless you are calling yourself a false teacher and describing yourself putting yourself in this category.

I would hope they had not recieved the blood, for if it WERE possible, they would have put God to an open shame and there would be no more sacrifice for them.

The premise of this conversation started with you answering a question. It is based on what a Godly man would do, or the possibility of what could happen to a Godly man. Godly men don't turn into false teachers, so that is not a possibility. Are you a false teacher? Do you fit the description of Jude 1:4 or Mat. 15:8? Then you can't use those verses. We are speaking of Godly men who fall into sin. They are saved. There are only two options that I know of;
Either one must deny the sufficiency of the blood of Christ,
or deny eternal security.

Yes, I can use those scriptures too. They are the scriptures that cover this kind of a situation. You just fail to see it. I suppose men who are guilty of such things would hold to "Godly men can commit grevious sins" , but in reality, Godly men, cannot commit grevious sins, even though they do sin a sin not unto death.

The option of calling a Godly man, such as David, a false and ungodly teacher is not there.

David did not have the indwelling of the Holy Ghost. God even turned on David and took his son, so don't tell me about David, he was under the Law covenant.

BBob,

 

[DHK]

David did not have the indwelling of the Holy Ghost. God even turned on David and took his son, so don't tell me about David, he was under the Law covenant.

BBob,

There are many Godly people in this world like David, who have sinned. I could give you names, but that would be gossip, and do damage to the cause of Christ. The fact is that Christians, like David, have fallen, and fallen grievously.

A just man falls seven times and rises again.

A true Christian will repent and rise again. David repented and went on with his life. It could be argued that David did have the Holy Spirit, as he prayed

Psalms 51:10-11 Create in me a clean heart, O God; and renew a right spirit within me. Cast me not away from thy presence; and take not thy holy spirit from me.
--vs. 10 He asks that his spirit be made right.
--vs. 11 He asks that the Holy Spirit be not take from him, indicating that inspite of the seriousness of those sins, he still had the Holy Spirit dwelling within him. David was an exception. He was a man after God's own heart. Yet, he still sinned.

Godly people sin. It is a fact of life.
Some of them sin grievously.

 

[DHK]

Originally Posted by DHK
Bob you are the one in the driver's seat, remember?
You said "no" to the question asked of you.
You are saved, and it is impossible for you to sin such a sin.
But we know that Godly men do sin, even grievously.

I know nothing about Godly men sinning grievously. Jesus said not to even pray for them.

Then you must live a very sheltered life. It happens often. Search the web. I am sure if you do however, you will just deny the salvation of any such person that you find. And, please, do not falsely accuse Jesus. He said no such thing.

Therefore, when that happens:
either you deny OSAS, or
You deny the suffiency of the blood of Christ,
But the option of calling them false teachers is not open, unless you are calling yourself a false teacher and describing yourself putting yourself in this category.

I would hope they had not recieved the blood, for if it WERE possible, they would have put God to an open shame and there would be no more sacrifice for them.

We are talking about you. We are talking about David. We are talking about others like them. Are you saying then, that you would have hoped that you had never received the blood of Christ--simply because it is possible for you to fall in sin (as it was for David and others)? Are you really that much above everyone else?

The premise of this conversation started with you answering a question. It is based on what a Godly man would do, or the possibility of what could happen to a Godly man. Godly men don't turn into false teachers, so that is not a possibility. Are you a false teacher? Do you fit the description of Jude 1:4 or Mat. 15:8? Then you can't use those verses. We are speaking of Godly men who fall into sin. They are saved. There are only two options that I know of;
Either one must deny the sufficiency of the blood of Christ,
or deny eternal security.

Yes, I can use those scriptures too. They are the scriptures that cover this kind of a situation. You just fail to see it. I suppose men who are guilty of such things would hold to "Godly men can commit grevious sins" , but in reality, Godly men, cannot commit grevious sins, even though they do sin a sin not unto death.

If you use those Scriptures on others you must be willing to use those Scriptures on yourself, for David fell as well.
Also remember that bearing false witness is just as great a sin as adultery in God's sight. Most who have seen your posts will attest to your failure in that area. If you have sinned in one area it is just as bad as sinning in them all.

The option of calling a Godly man, such as David, a false and ungodly teacher is not there.

Yes it is. It is found in Romans 4.

 

[Brother Bob]

There are many Godly people in this world like David, who have sinned. I could give you names, but that would be gossip, and do damage to the cause of Christ. The fact is that Christians, like David, have fallen, and fallen grievously.

A just man falls seven times and rises again.

A true Christian will repent and rise again. David repented and went on with his life. It could be argued that David did have the Holy Spirit, as he prayed

Psalms 51:10-11 Create in me a clean heart, O God; and renew a right spirit within me. Cast me not away from thy presence; and take not thy holy spirit from me.
--vs. 10 He asks that his spirit be made right.
--vs. 11 He asks that the Holy Spirit be not take from him, indicating that inspite of the seriousness of those sins, he still had the Holy Spirit dwelling within him. David was an exception. He was a man after God's own heart. Yet, he still sinned.

Godly people sin. It is a fact of life.
Some of them sin grievously.

They did not have the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit was with them, but not within them. That is false doctrine and you know it.

BBob,

 

[Brother Bob]

Then you must live a very sheltered life. It happens often. Search the web. I am sure if you do however, you will just deny the salvation of any such person that you find. And, please, do not falsely accuse Jesus. He said no such thing.

It is scripture, and inspired by the Holy Ghost and written by Godly men.

We are talking about you. We are talking about David. We are talking about others like them. Are you saying then, that you would have hoped that you had never received the blood of Christ--simply because it is possible for you to fall in sin (as it was for David and others)? Are you really that much above everyone else?

David lived under the Law and served God in the flesh, I live under Grace and serve God in the Spirit.

If you use those Scriptures on others you must be willing to use those Scriptures on yourself, for David fell as well.
Also remember that bearing false witness is just as great a sin as adultery in God's sight. Most who have seen your posts will attest to your failure in that area. If you have sinned in one area it is just as bad as sinning in them all.

Again, David served in the flesh. We serve in the Spirit. That is where you make a lot of your mistakes, comparing the Spirit with the Flesh.


Yes it is. It is found in Romans 4.
[/i]

Quote:
The option of calling a Godly man, such as David, a false and ungodly teacher is not there.

I don't recall those words being mine.

BBob,

 

[Brother Bob]

I did not plan to get back into this thread, at all, but "repented" long enough to say this.

Personally, I've wondered why far more threads seem to keep popping up about doing stuff that is wrong, than the number of threads about doing stuff that is right?

Ed

I sure will amen that. I certainly believe that Christians are "good" people.

BBob,

 

[DHK]

They did not have the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit was with them, but not within them. That is false doctrine and you know it.

BBob,

Are you suggesting that when you bear false witness against your brother (as has been so evident on this board), then the Holy Spirit leaves you.
I thought you believed in OSAS?