'Christians don't sin'

[Joe]

Why do you all always have to run back to "under the Law" or before. Why can you not prove your case by using the New Testament?

I can't make my case using either one, as I don't know who the Lord will choose to save. I offered an example, and to my knowledge, OT or NT in this circumstance, makes no difference. He saved Saul because he wanted to. But he may not save us if we do the same, and no one can promise such a thing. We don't know.

They also made molten calves to worship, do the Christians do that today?
If the OT was suffecient, then Christ would not have come. Every time you run back to the OT, to try and justify something under the NT, I hardly ever read it.

I don't see much difference as the 10 commandmants imo, are still binding except some some leeway for some people concenring the 4th commandment.
If one honestly believes any day chosen to worship is acceptable by God, then I doubt God will mind if it is done with an honest heart.

 

[DHK]

Originally Posted by DHK
Do we advocate this Bob? Do we teach it? Or do you sensationalize things that we never said? What you have said--stretching the truth, is nothing more than a lie--bearing false witness--the equivalent of "raping a six year old girl and shooting someone with a 38 between the eyes." It is the same Bob. Both are a transgression of the law. What is wrong here.
1. You have borne false witness. (False)
2. You have suggested immorality. (False)
3. You have suggested murder. (False)
Of the above three commandments, only one was actually broken, and right on this board; that is the first one. The offender was you. Over and over you bear false witness against your brother, a sin just as grievous as adultery and murder. (False)

I do not bear false witness and here is proof. I can give you proof of the others also. Here is you advocating that a person can go to heaven and die in the act of adultery.

The statements are not false as they are taken right from your own quote. Ask Steaver if you have borne false witness? The jury speaks for itself. You are in denial.

DHK:
The tense in that verse is present continuous. (False) It refers to a person persisting in a sinful lifestyle. A person who commits adultery may go to heaven. He may even go to heaven while he is in the act of committing adultery. His sins are covered by the blood. Every one sins.

quote] The tense is present continuous is ridicilous.

Your denial of what the Greek says does't change a thing. The Bible says what the Bible says. I have repeatedly shown you what 1John 3:8,9 means. I have shown you through Greek scholars such as A.T. Robertson. I have offered you other scholars such as Barnes, and, Jameison, Faucett, and Brown. You deny everyone. You are in a state of denial as to what these verses mean. Everyone else is wrong, and you only are right.
Do you always let your pride get in your way Bob?

If it was any other moderator Bob, such fits of anger could get you suspended. Be careful what you say to others.

For such a statement and others like you have already been suspended once. This is a reminder of that. To come out and tell me:
"You believe the devil's doctrine." is an attack on my person, my character, and my salvation. It is against the rules, Bob to question another's salvation, which you have done. you are treading on thin ice.

So, now we begin the threats. You call me every name in the book, question my salvation and say you do not, call me a liar over and over, say I break all of the commandments, but yet you threaten me, when I tell you that your doctrine is false. You accuse me of being Catholic, which you believe are all lost, so you are in doing so, saying I am lost also.

See the above comments. I have not called you every name under the book. I have repeatedly pointed out your error, as have others. You ignore it, continue to ignore it. I never accused you of being Catholic. Your doctrine is LIKE the Catholics in that you divide sins into more than one category (big and little) just like the Catholics. A comparison is not calling you Catholic. This is another misrepresentation; another lie. You are piling them up Bob.

A false accusation. We don't sin all we want. We live as holy a life as possible. Please get that through your head, stop the lying and misrepresentation. (False) Can't you see that over and over you break the Ten Commandments in this way, (False) and breaking one of them (lying) is just as bad as breaking them all--including adultery (James 2:10).

Here you once again accuse me of breaking all of the commandments, lying, misrepresentation. When it was you who said a person in the act of adultery and die stills goes to heaven. One time you even said "sing with the angels".

I am only quoting what the Bible says: He that break one commandment is guilty of breaking all the commandments (James 2:10). If you don't like what the Bible teaches is that my fault Bob? You continue to misrepresent what people say on the board. You continue to lie--bearing false witness.

quote]This is true. And we will give account to God of how we have influenced others, of how we have taught others, of what doctrine we have taught others.

And, by example, you do sin, and repeatedly so, as demonstrated on this board. (False)

Again, you accuse me of sinning, you do this over and over and you are a moderator.

[/quote]
You have admitted to sinning. True or false? Don't play the hypocrite!

quote]Can you document that? Can you document where we have taught people to go and sin? I want to see the documentation Bob.

You asking for documentation, knowing that you have said it for the last year at least, is a joke!!

I do not bear false witness and here is proof. I can give you proof of the others also. Here is you advocating that a person can go to heaven and die in the act of adultery.

[/quote]
Yes, we have said that a person can sin and go to heaven, however, We have never taught people to go and sin. That is a false accusation and one that you cannot substantiate. It is a lie, just another time where you have borne false witness, or broken ALL the commandments simply because you have broken one (James 2:10).

quote]DHK:

The tense in that verse is present continuous. (False) It refers to a person persisting in a sinful lifestyle. A person who commits adultery may go to heaven.

He may even go to heaven while he is in the act of committing adultery.

[/quote]
The Bible teaches one can sin and still go to heaven. That is Biblical doctrine. But am I teaching people to sin. No. Your accusation is false. It is a lie.

His sins are covered by the blood. Every one sins.

The tense is present continuous is ridicilous.

Your continual denial of the Bible, and especially of the sufficiency of the blood of Christ to cover all of our sins is ridiculous.

Quote:

quote]BBob
So you believe you can be on top of your neighbors wife and die in the act and still go to heaven?

Steaver:
Yes, I do believe all sins no matter how many are covered by the blood of Christ for the believer.

No, I do not teach others to sin all they want and they can still go to heaven. I teach them to repent of their sins for the love of Jesus Christ. The Spirit will convict and the Father will chasen.

Neither did Steaver teach that others to sin all they want. That is a lie. It is a misrepresentation. You again broke all the commandements by breaking one. Steaver taught that a person can still go to heaven even if he has sin on his heart.

ajg1959

I am not ashamed to answer it.

There is not a sin in the world that is stronger than the Grace of God. It is not the individual sins that a person commits that doom him to hell, it is the nature of sin within us that does. The ONLY sin that will send you to hell is the sin of unbelief.

Once a person has trusted in the Grace of God through Christ, he is no longer subject to the law, and all is forgiven. This does not mean he can do as he wishes and sin at will, but it does mean his sins are covered by the sacrificial blood of Jesus.

IF a person can lose his salvation by sinning then the Gospel of Grace is a lie. If I had the power to be sinless then I would not need Grace.

So my answer is a definate NO.....a person cannot do anything to lose his salvation, even commit adultery, whether he is dyng or not.

You sir, are the one with honesty issues if you expect us to believe that you live sinlessly.

AJ

How is that for documentation.

As AJ answered you: You sir are the one with honesty issues.
He also bears witness that you have lied on this board. Why do you continue to do so and break the Ten Commandments?

If that weren't true Bob, you would die and go to Hell. You also have sinned, and you have even admitted it at times. Every sin is grievous in God's sight without exception What gives you the right to say that some sins are greater in God's sight than others? God is holy. Nothing unholy can enter into his presence--nothing. All sin, even the smallest sin is unholy. That makes all sin in God's sight equal.

Quote:

What gives you the right to say that some sins are greater in God's sight than others?

The Bible gives me that right.
1John 3:4 All sin is a transgression of God's law. It doesn't matter if it is big or little. It is a transgression of God's law.

 

[Brother Bob]

I can't make my case using either one, as I don't know who the Lord will choose to save. I offered an example, and to my knowledge, OT or NT, GOd was not partial to one group over another.

I don't see much difference as the 10 commandmants imo, are still binding except some some leeway for some people concenring the 4th commandment.
If you honestly believe you can choose any day to worship, then I doubt God will mind if it is with an honest heart.

Romans 8:
3: For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
4: That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
5: For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
6: For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
7: Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
8: So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.



I'll go with DHK's answer. One is a verb, the other is a noun. Need one of each, at the very least, to make a sentence.

You need one of each, but you are putting both in the same place. You are not using one to support the other. How do you use a verb, in place of a noun??

BBob,

 

[Brother Bob]

Your denial of what the Greek says does't change a thing. The Bible says what the Bible says. I have repeatedly shown you what 1John 3:8,9 means. I have shown you through Greek scholars such as A.T. Robertson. I have offered you other scholars such as Barnes, and, Jameison, Faucett, and Brown. You deny everyone. You are in a state of denial as to what these verses mean. Everyone else is wrong, and you only are right.
Do you always let your pride get in your way Bob?

For such a statement and others like you have already been suspended once. This is a reminder of that. To come out and tell me:
"You believe the devil's doctrine." is an attack on my person, my character, and my salvation. It is against the rules, Bob to question another's salvation, which you have done. you are treading on thin ice. I do not believe your doctrine, what else can I say. Your doctrine is false. IMO, Is banning me the ony way you can get your doctrine to stand?? Do I have to agree with you to be able to stay on BB???

You have questioned my salvation all through this thread and others. You accuse me of being catholic, of which you believe is lost, you accuse me of being a liar, murder, dishonest etc.

See the above comments. I have not called you every name under the book. I have repeatedly pointed out your error, as have others. You ignore it, continue to ignore it. I never accused you of being Catholic. Your doctrine is LIKE the Catholics in that you divide sins into more than one category (big and little) just like the Catholics. A comparison is not calling you Catholic. This is another misrepresentation; another lie. You are piling them up Bob.
I am only quoting what the Bible says: He that break one commandment is guilty of breaking all the commandments (James 2:10). If you don't like what the Bible teaches is that my fault Bob? You continue to misrepresent what people say on the board. You continue to lie--bearing false witness. False

You have admitted to sinning. True or false? Don't play the hypocrite! Yes I have admitted to sinning several time, I am not perfect. I do not commit the sins you say, that a Christian can die doing and go to heaven.[/quote]
Yes, we have said that a person can sin and go to heaven, however, We have never taught people to go and sin. That is a false accusation and one that you cannot substantiate. It is a lie, just another time where you have borne false witness, or broken ALL the commandments simply because you have broken one (James 2:10). You now have to admit that you have said that people can be in the act of sinning and go to heaven. Before you tried to deny it.
[/quote]
The Bible teaches one can sin and still go to heaven. That is Biblical doctrine. But am I teaching people to sin. No. Your accusation is false. It is a lie.

Jesus said, if you die in your sins, where I am you cannot come. You deny that?? IMO

You teach them if they are sinning when they die, they will still go to heaven and that is grevious sins also.

Your continual denial of the Bible, and especially of the sufficiency of the blood of Christ to cover all of our sins is ridiculous.

You have to be born again. The blood covered the sins of the whole world, but you must believe to receive that blood. Big difference. Also, people committing adultery, don't have that blood. IMO

Quote:

Neither did Steaver teach that others to sin all they want. That is a lie. It is a misrepresentation. You again broke all the commandements by breaking one. Steaver taught that a person can still go to heaven even if he has sin on his heart.

Steaven taught that you can die in the act of adultery and go to heaven. It stands for itself, regardless of what you say.
It goes against the words of Jesus: "If you die in your sins, where I am, you cannot come".

As AJ answered you: You sir are the one with honesty issues.
He also bears witness that you have lied on this board. Why do you continue to do so and break the Ten Commandments?

AJ also taught that you can die committing any sin and go to heaven. I find that to be against scripture. IMO
It goes agains the teachings of Jesus: "If you die in your sins, where I am, you cannot come".

Quote:

The Bible gives me that right.
1John 3:4 All sin is a transgression of God's law. It doesn't matter if it is big or little. It is a transgression of God's law.

This is scripture also, answer it!!!

1Jo 2:4He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

BBob,

 

[Marcia]

Thanks, Marcia, I read that, creepy.

You have quite a testimony, btw.

Thanks for reading the article. And thanks to Joe for reading it, also!

PTL for the testimony -- it is such a clear picture of the Lord's mercy! :godisgood:

 

[DHK]

You have admitted to sinning. True or false? Don't play the hypocrite!

Yes I have admitted to sinning several time, I am not perfect. I do not commit the sins you say, that a Christian can die doing and go to heaven.

So it is the Catholic way again: Venial sin vs. Mortal sin. Where do you get this idea? All sin is a transgression of God's law. There are not big and little sins. Are you as holy as God is holy? If he were to say to you: "Why should I allow you to enter into my heaven?" what answer could you give? Nothing that defiles can enter into heaven--nothing. If you die with that little white lie unconfessed, it is just as bad as dying committing an immoral act. Both are sins which defile, and cannot allow one to stand before God. Nothing that defiles can enter into heaven. An unholy person cannot stand before a holy God.

Habakkuk 1:13 Thou art of purer eyes than to behold evil, and canst not look on iniquity: wherefore lookest thou upon them that deal treacherously, and holdest thy tongue when the wicked devoureth the man that is more righteous than he?
--God does not even look upon iniquity. He will not condone even the smallest white lie, the fleeting wicked thought (Phil.4:8; 2Cor.10:3-5). You cannot enter into heaven with any sin. Thus if one takes your position there is no hope for anyone to enter heaven. Heaven will be an empty place.

However the Bible teaches that the blood of Jesus Christ cleanses us from all sin, from the smallest lie, to the grossest of immoral sin. There is nothing that God will not forgive. His blood is all-sufficient. He atoned for the sins of all the world (1John 2:2). And that atonement is available to all who believe.

Yes, we have said that a person can sin and go to heaven, however, We have never taught people to go and sin. That is a false accusation and one that you cannot substantiate. It is a lie, just another time where you have borne false witness, or broken ALL the commandments simply because you have broken one (James 2:10).

You now have to admit that you have said that people can be in the act of sinning and go to heaven. Before you tried to deny it.

I never denied that. What I teach is that people sin. However I don't teach people to sin. There is a difference. Don't accuse me of teaching people to sin. That is a false accusation.

The Bible teaches one can sin and still go to heaven. That is Biblical doctrine. But am I teaching people to sin. No. Your accusation is false. It is a lie.

Jesus said, if you die in your sins, where I am you cannot come. You deny that?? IMO

You teach them if they are sinning when they die, they will still go to heaven and that is grevious sins also.

Give me a chapter and verse where Jesus said: "If you die in your sins where I am you cannot come." Verify what you say.
Yes, the Bible says that Jesus forgives all of our sins at salvation, even the grievous ones. You don't believe that, and thus take away from the blood of Christ, denying the atonement. Those are serious doctrines to deny Bob. Isn't the blood sufficient enough to cover all of our sins, including the big ones??

Your continual denial of the Bible, and especially of the sufficiency of the blood of Christ to cover all of our sins is ridiculous.

You have to be born again. The blood covered the sins of the whole world, but you must believe to receive that blood. Big difference. Also, people committing adultery, don't have that blood. IMO

We have been speaking of those who are born again. I agree: "You must be born again."
It is not for you to say that a born again person cannot fall into sin, when the Bible teaches that they can. The brother that fell into immorality in 1Cor. 5, was a "brother" a saved man. He never lost his salvation, though he was born again and committed incest.

Neither did Steaver teach that others to sin all they want. That is a lie. It is a misrepresentation. You again broke all the commandements by breaking one. Steaver taught that a person can still go to heaven even if he has sin on his heart.

Steaven taught that you can die in the act of adultery and go to heaven. It stands for itself, regardless of what you say.
It goes against the words of Jesus: "If you die in your sins, where I am, you cannot come".

Jesus did not say that. Provide chapter and verse.
Steaver did not teach others to sin all they want. That is a false accusation, a lie, breaking the Ten Commandments--nothing different than committing adultery.

quote]As AJ answered you: You sir are the one with honesty issues.
He also bears witness that you have lied on this board. Why do you continue to do so and break the Ten Commandments?

AJ also taught that you can die committing any sin and go to heaven. I find that to be against scripture. IMO
It goes agains the teachings of Jesus: "If you die in your sins, where I am, you cannot come".

[/quote]
You bear false witness. You lie throughout this thread. According to your own theology you will never make it to heaven. Note I said that it is according to your theology not mine. I believe that the blood of Christ will cover your sins. I am at a loss as to why you don't believe the same thing.
Bearing false witness is one of the Ten Commandments.
Committing adultery is one of the Ten Commandments.

James 2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.

You are guilty of all. This is biblical teaching. You need to accept this, Bob.

This is scripture also, answer it!!!

1Jo 2:4He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

BBob,

You need to accept the meaning of it.
Look it up in any reputable commentary. Go back to A.T. Robertson and see what he says.
Or, better yet, you read the Greek for yourself and come back and tell me what it means. I want to know what this verse means from your expert knowledge of the Greek language. The Bible was inspired in the Greek Bob, not the King James language. Find out what the verse means and then get back to me.

 

[Brother Bob]

So it is the Catholic way again: Venial sin vs. Mortal sin. Where do you get this idea? All sin is a transgression of God's law. There are not big and little sins. Are you as holy as God is holy? If he were to say to you: "Why should I allow you to enter into my heaven?" what answer could you give? Nothing that defiles can enter into heaven--nothing. If you die with that little white lie unconfessed, it is just as bad as dying committing an immoral act. Both are sins which defile, and cannot allow one to stand before God. Nothing that defiles can enter into heaven. An unholy person cannot stand before a holy God.

Habakkuk 1:13 Thou art of purer eyes than to behold evil, and canst not look on iniquity: wherefore lookest thou upon them that deal treacherously, and holdest thy tongue when the wicked devoureth the man that is more righteous than he?
--God does not even look upon iniquity. He will not condone even the smallest white lie, the fleeting wicked thought (Phil.4:8; 2Cor.10:3-5). You cannot enter into heaven with any sin. Thus if one takes your position there is no hope for anyone to enter heaven. Heaven will be an empty place.

However the Bible teaches that the blood of Jesus Christ cleanses us from all sin, from the smallest lie, to the grossest of immoral sin. There is nothing that God will not forgive. His blood is all-sufficient. He atoned for the sins of all the world (1John 2:2). And that atonement is available to all who believe.
I never denied that. What I teach is that people sin. However I don't teach people to sin. There is a difference. Don't accuse me of teaching people to sin. That is a false accusation.

Give me a chapter and verse where Jesus said: "If you die in your sins where I am you cannot come." Verify what you say.
Yes, the Bible says that Jesus forgives all of our sins at salvation, even the grievous ones. You don't believe that, and thus take away from the blood of Christ, denying the atonement. Those are serious doctrines to deny Bob. Isn't the blood sufficient enough to cover all of our sins, including the big ones??

We have been speaking of those who are born again. I agree: "You must be born again."
It is not for you to say that a born again person cannot fall into sin, when the Bible teaches that they can. The brother that fell into immorality in 1Cor. 5, was a "brother" a saved man. He never lost his salvation, though he was born again and committed incest.

Jesus did not say that. Provide chapter and verse.
Steaver did not teach others to sin all they want. That is a false accusation, a lie, breaking the Ten Commandments--nothing different than committing adultery.

I get this doctrine from Jesus:

Jhn 19:11 Jesus answered, Thou couldest have no power [at all] against me, except it were given thee from above: therefore he that delivered me unto thee hath the greater sin.

1Jo 5:16 If any man see his brother sin a sin [which is] not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it.

Scripture of dying in your sins, you can't go to heaven where Jesus is?

1John 8:21¶Then said Jesus again unto them, I go my way, and ye shall seek me, and shall die in your sins: whither I go, ye cannot come.

You bear false witness. You lie throughout this thread. According to your own theology you will never make it to heaven. Note I said that it is according to your theology not mine. I believe that the blood of Christ will cover your sins. I am at a loss as to why you don't believe the same thing.
Bearing false witness is one of the Ten Commandments.
Committing adultery is one of the Ten Commandments.
James 2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
You are guilty of all. This is biblical teaching. You need to accept this, Bob.
You need to accept the meaning of it.
Look it up in any reputable commentary. Go back to A.T. Robertson and see what he says.
Or, better yet, you read the Greek for yourself and come back and tell me what it means. I want to know what this verse means from your expert knowledge of the Greek language. The Bible was inspired in the Greek Bob, not the King James language. Find out what the verse means and then get back to me.

It is the KJV where you or the others are getting the word dissemble of which you call a verb and using it as a noun, to get your meaning in Gal.

Show me where I have lied by scripture, and I will show you where you error, or bear false witness against me.

BBob,

 

[DHK]

Jesus did not say that. Provide chapter and verse.
Steaver did not teach others to sin all they want. That is a false accusation, a lie, breaking the Ten Commandments--nothing different than committing adultery.

I get this doctrine from Jesus:

Jhn 19:11 Jesus answered, Thou couldest have no power [at all] against me, except it were given thee from above: therefore he that delivered me unto thee hath the greater sin.

Jesus was speaking of Judas Iscariot, the son of perdition, "he that delivered me (Jesus) unto thee hath the greater sin." The only conclusion I can derive from this is that you are comparing Steaver to Judas Iscariot, a man that was indwelt with Satan and eventually went out and hanged himself. He had betrayed the Lord. He was not saved. He had committed the most horrendous sin known to mankind--that of betraying innocent blood, the blood of Christ into wicked hands to be crucified. This is what you are accusing Steaver of. You ought to be ashamed of yourself.
To take such Scripture out of context is ridiculous and does not support your position at all.

1Jo 5:16 If any man see his brother sin a sin [which is] not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it.

Scripture of dying in your sins, you can't go to heaven where Jesus is?

In this Scripture since you don't know what a sin unto death is, who should take you seriously? Annanias and Sapphira committed a sin unto death. What was it? They lied. But you have done that many times on this board. So perhaps you have committed the sin unto death. God knows; you don't. You are the one judging men's hearts. You are in the wrong. You have stated an opinion and not a verse. The verse does not say that the person will not go to heaven. It is speaking of a brother. If any man see a brother sin... A brother will not lose his salvation. I thought you believed in eternal security or OSAS. I guess I was wrong.

1John 8:21¶Then said Jesus again unto them, I go my way, and ye shall seek me, and shall die in your sins: whither I go, ye cannot come.

You are good at quoting Scripture without explanation. Here Jesus is speaking to the Pharisees who had seen the miracles of Jesus, heard him in the flesh speaking with authority, had every chance to repent, and yet rejected him. They were the ones that crucified him. He would be crucified by them. Jesus would die, and rise, and go to heaven. They would seek him, and not find him. They are unsaved and of course could not go or enter into heaven. The same holds true of any unsaved person. We are speaking of the saved not the unsaved.

We have continued to say that a saved person is able to sin, and at the end he will still go to heaven, even if that sin is grievous. God's blood is able to cover that sin. We have said nothing about unsaved people. To use these Scriptures out of context is deceptive. Deceptiveness is dishonest which is the same as telling lies Bob. When will you stop??

It is the KJV where you or the others are getting the word dissemble of which you call a verb and using it as a noun, to get your meaning in Gal.

Show me where I have lied by scripture, and I will show you where you error, or bear false witness against me.

BBob,

If you look at my posts I have not posted anything about the word "dissemble". I have stayed out of that conversation. But as for 1John 3:8,9 you continue to assert that it does not mean:
He that is born again does not continue to live a lifestyle of sin or habitual sin.
It does not speak of one sin, and that is what you have affirmed.

If I am wrong, then tell me what you believe.
If I am right show me from the Greek where I am wrong. You do it. You provide the evidence; I already have.

 

[Brother Bob]

Jesus was speaking of Judas Iscariot, the son of perdition, "he that delivered me (Jesus) unto thee hath the greater sin." The only conclusion I can derive from this is that you are comparing Steaver to Judas Iscariot, a man that was indwelt with Satan and eventually went out and hanged himself. He had betrayed the Lord. He was not saved. He had committed the most horrendous sin known to mankind--that of betraying innocent blood, the blood of Christ into wicked hands to be crucified. This is what you are accusing Steaver of. You ought to be ashamed of yourself.
To take such Scripture out of context is ridiculous and does not support your position at all.

That is beyond belief DHK;, Steaver never crossed my mind when I answered you. It is plain, regardless of who it was that Jesus was saying there is a difference in sin, plain and simple. You come up with some of the craziest remarks I have ever heard. Where do they come from, deep inside of you or where?

In this Scripture since you don't know what a sin unto death is, who should take you seriously? Annanias and Sapphira committed a sin unto death. What was it? They lied. But you have done that many times on this board. So perhaps you have committed the sin unto death. God knows; you don't. You are the one judging men's hearts. You are in the wrong. You have stated an opinion and not a verse. The verse does not say that the person will not go to heaven. It is speaking of a brother. If any man see a brother sin... A brother will not lose his salvation. I thought you believed in eternal security or OSAS. I guess I was wrong.

To die in Christ is Gain. How could it be punishment for them to receive an early death. I don't think they were saved. Period.

You are good at quoting Scripture without explanation. Here Jesus is speaking to the Pharisees who had seen the miracles of Jesus, heard him in the flesh speaking with authority, had every chance to repent, and yet rejected him. They were the ones that crucified him. He would be crucified by them. Jesus would die, and rise, and go to heaven. They would seek him, and not find him. They are unsaved and of course could not go or enter into heaven. The same holds true of any unsaved person. We are speaking of the saved not the unsaved.

God is no respect of persons. Pharasees or Gentiles, it is the same. If you die in your sins, you are hell bound.

We have continued to say that a saved person is able to sin, and at the end he will still go to heaven, even if that sin is grievous. God's blood is able to cover that sin. We have said nothing about unsaved people. To use these Scriptures out of context is deceptive. Deceptiveness is dishonest which is the same as telling lies Bob. When will you stop??

How do you know they are saved. You are not God.

If you look at my posts I have not posted anything about the word "dissemble". I have stayed out of that conversation. But as for 1John 3:8,9 you continue to assert that it does not mean:

That is why I posted or the others. I thought you had stayed out of it, and I hope its for the same reason, it upsets me. Maybe we agree on something anyway, but guess its too much to hope for.

He that is born again does not continue to live a lifestyle of sin or habitual sin.
It does not speak of one sin, and that is what you have affirmed.

Never will you find "habitual sin" in scripture. That is a word you fellows who come up with this doctrine of dying in sin, came up with.

If I am wrong, then tell me what you believe.
If I am right show me from the Greek where I am wrong. You do it. You provide the evidence; I already have.

No, you provide A T Roberson, a man as you and I. It is a known fact that many mistakes were made in the translations and continue to make them. You or I can not settle down on the belief of anyone on the translation and live or die by it, for we are vulnable as they were.

Anyway, that is just "one" scripture that you are just buzzing by, there are many. But if we can't even work out that one, why bring in others. There are many many.

You must of really had a bad experience with the catholics DHK;

Listen DHK, if for some reason I am not around, I pray that I have said something that will cause you to study. I also know that you could of banned me several times, even though the names calling have come from both sides. You certainly are an advocate for what you believe in. I just think you are wrong. I will remember you for how you have fought for what you believe in. Take care,

I never have, and I never will hold a grudge against any man, and that includes you and Steaver and itrust, aj or any of the others.

BBob,

BBob,

 

[steaver]

I never have, and I never will hold a grudge against any man, and that includes you and Steaver and itrust, aj or any of the others.

BBob,

All we asked brother is for you to not take a statement of ours like "Yes, a Christian can die committing a transgression of the law such as adultery and go to heaven" and turn it into a "You guys go sin all you want and teach others they can too".

And if you tell others who have not seen our actual conversation that this is what we are advocating then that is bearing a false witness. Do not distort a brother's views. I have NEVER distorted your views. I have many times distinguished between your view of law transgressions and non-law transgressions for your positions sake, even though I believe and will tell you there is no such seperation taught in the scriptures.

Jesus said, if you die in your sins, where I am you cannot come. You deny that?? IMO

Now brother this is flat out wrong. Jesus never said any such thing. You have either terribly misunderstood the verse or you are diliberately twisting it to support your view. I pray the former.

Here is the actual quote of Jesus...

Jhn 8:21 Then said Jesus again unto them, I go my way, and ye shall seek me, and shall die in your sins: whither I go, ye cannot come.

Jhn 8:24 I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am [he], ye shall die in your sins.

Unbelief is why one will die in their sins. You are changing the entire meaning of the passage by saying "if you die in your sins". It does not say this at all. It says "if ye believe not that I am He"..then... "ye shall die in your sins"

:jesus:

 

[Brother Bob]

All we asked brother is for you to not take a statement of ours like "Yes, a Christian can die committing a transgression of the law such as adultery and go to heaven" and turn it into a "You guys go sin all you want and teach others they can too".

By posting on here for all to see, you are teaching whosoever reads your posts, that you can die in the act of adultery and go to heaven. That is what you said and you know I can post the post you made, but not necessary, for if you are going to deny and it hitting you square in the face, what can I say.
I hope you change what you say, for it lends to teach the world that you believe that Christians can commit any sin and even be in the act and go to heaven. Those are your words, not mine. If that is what you believe, at least be man enough to stand up and say it.

And if you tell others who have not seen our actual conversation that this is what we are advocating then that is bearing a false witness. Do not distort a brother's views. I have NEVER distorted your views. I have many times distinguished between your view of law transgressions and non-law transgressions for your positions sake, even though I believe and will tell you there is no such seperation taught in the scriptures.

There is no distortion, the post speaks for itself.

Jesus Himself distinguished between sin and I am only quoting Him.

Jhn 19:11Jesus answered, Thou couldest have no power [at all] against me, except it were given thee from above: therefore he that delivered me unto thee hath the greater sin.



Now brother this is flat out wrong. Jesus never said any such thing. You have either terribly misunderstood the verse or you are diliberately twisting it to support your view. I pray the former.
Here again you flat out deny scripture.

Jhn 8:21 Then said Jesus again unto them, I go my way, and ye shall seek me, and shall die in your sins: whither I go, ye cannot come.

Jesus is in Heaven.


Here is the actual quote of Jesus...

Jhn 8:21 Then said Jesus again unto them, I go my way, and ye shall seek me, and shall die in your sins: whither I go, ye cannot come.

Jhn 8:24 I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am [he], ye shall die in your sins.

Unbelief is why one will die in their sins. You are changing the entire meaning of the passage by saying "if you die in your sins". It does not say this at all. It says "if ye believe not that I am He"..then... "ye shall die in your sins"



:jesus:

The scripture slaps you square between the eyes.
If you are ashamed of what you said about dying in the act of adultery and still going to heaven, I beg you to repent and start telling the truth.

1Jo 2:4He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

BBob,

 

[DHK]

1Jo 2:4He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

BBob,

Why are you ashamed to give us the actual meaning of this verse from the Greek?
Would you prefer I quote it to you in some mid-eastern language. Those languages also give a fairly good rendering. You don't have to stick to English.
English isn't the language that will be spoken in heaven, contrary to popular thought here. You will have to learn a new language some day.

 

[Brother Bob]

Why are you ashamed to give us the actual meaning of this verse from the Greek?
Would you prefer I quote it to you in some mid-eastern language. Those languages also give a fairly good rendering. You don't have to stick to English.
English isn't the language that will be spoken in heaven, contrary to popular thought here. You will have to learn a new language some day.

I give you another scripture to go with it, there are many more.

1Jo 5:2By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.

BBob,

 

[ajg1959]

If you are ashamed of what you said about dying in the act of adultery and still going to heaven, I beg you to repent and start telling the truth.



BBob,

Forgive me for saying this, but you believe that Jesus died for only SOME of our sins and not ALL of our sins, and that His grace is not sufficient to cover all sin, then you are the one who should repent.

How in the world can you look into a man's heart and tell what his state of salvation is? You may see a Christian commiting a horrendous sin, but how do you know that God is not dealing with him severely in his heart as you watch?

If sin is the measuring stick for salvation then we are all going to hell.

Aren't you guilty of this scripture?

Mat 7:1 Judge not, that ye be not judged.
Mat 7:2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.

Only God can judge the status of one's soul.

You are just a human like the rest of us, you CANNOT look into a man's heart and judge his state of salvation no matter what he is doing in the flesh.

That is God's job, why dont you let Him do it?

AJ

 

[Brother Bob]

Forgive me for saying this, but you believe that Jesus died for only SOME of our sins and not ALL of our sins, and that His grace is not sufficient to cover all sin, then you are the one who should repent.

How in the world can you look into a man's heart and tell what his state of salvation is? You may see a Christian commiting a horrendous sin, but how do you know that God is not dealing with him severely in his heart as you watch?

If sin is the measuring stick for salvation then we are all going to hell.

Aren't you guilty of this scripture?

Mat 7:1 Judge not, that ye be not judged.
Mat 7:2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.

Only God can judge the status of one's soul.

You are just a human like the rest of us, you CANNOT look into a man's heart and judge his state of salvation no matter what he is doing in the flesh.

That is God's job, why dont you let Him do it?

AJ

Mat 12:33¶Either make the tree good, and his fruit good; or else make the tree corrupt, and his fruit corrupt: for the tree is known by [his] fruit.

1Cr 5:12 For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within?

1Cr 5:13 But them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person.

You think this is not talking to the leaders of the church???


If sin is the measuring stick for salvation then we are all going to hell.

1Jo 5:17All unrighteousness is sin: and there is a sin not unto death.

Depends on the sin now doesn't it?

 

[DHK]

Mat 12:33¶Either make the tree good, and his fruit good; or else make the tree corrupt, and his fruit corrupt: for the tree is known by [his] fruit.

Context Bob (as usual)

Matthew 12:31 Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men.
--The verse you chose to pull out of context was directed to the Pharisses who had just committed the sin of blaspheming the Holy Spirit. Are you suggesting that unconfessed sin by a Christian is blasphemy against the Holy Spirit?

1Cr 5:12 For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within?

Those that are without are the unsaved.
Those that are within are the saved, brothers, as Paul called this man.
This one who had committed incest was called a brother, a Christian, though he had committed incest. He was judged in that he was excommunicated for a time. Later he repented and was let back into the church. This goes against your theology doesn't it?

1Cr 5:13 But them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person.

Them that are without are the unsaved. God judges them. The believers don't have to be concerned about the judgement of the unsaved. That is the duty of God Almighty, not yours. You are not in the place of God!

 

[annsni]

So a true believer who slips will not get to heaven? I do not see that in Scripture.

I DO see Paul saying in Romans:

13Did that which is good, then, bring death to me? By no means! It was sin, producing death in me through what is good, in order that sin might be shown to be sin, and through the commandment might become sinful beyond measure. 14For we know that the law is spiritual, but I am of the flesh, sold under sin. 15For I do not understand my own actions. For I do not do what I want, but I do the very thing I hate. 16Now if I do what I do not want, I agree with the law, that it is good. 17So now it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells within me. 18For I know that nothing good dwells in me, that is, in my flesh. For I have the desire to do what is right, but not the ability to carry it out. 19 For I do not do the good I want, but the evil I do not want is what I keep on doing. 20Now if I do what I do not want, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells within me.

21So I find it to be a law that when I want to do right, evil lies close at hand. 22For I delight in the law of God, in my inner being, 23but I see in my members another law waging war against the law of my mind and making me captive to the law of sin that dwells in my members. 24Wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death? 25Thanks be to God through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, I myself serve the law of God with my mind, but with my flesh I serve the law of sin.

 

[steaver]

By posting on here for all to see, you are teaching whosoever reads your posts, that you can die in the act of adultery and go to heaven. That is what you said and you know I can post the post you made, but not necessary, for if you are going to deny and it hitting you square in the face, what can I say.
I hope you change what you say, for it lends to teach the world that you believe that Christians can commit any sin and even be in the act and go to heaven. Those are your words, not mine. If that is what you believe, at least be man enough to stand up and say it.

Do you even read my post?? Have I denied saying as much??

Here it is again....

All we asked brother is for you to not take a statement of ours like "Yes, a Christian can die committing a transgression of the law such as adultery and go to heaven" and turn it into a "You guys go sin all you want and teach others they can too".

I underlined it and italicized it. What more can I do??

The part you are guilty of is the latter...

 

[Brother Bob]

So a true believer who slips will not get to heaven? So you believe that a rapists of a 6 year old little girl, is a "true believer" and on his way to heaven, without repentance? I do not see that in Scripture. I don't think he is a "true" believe if he rapes a 6 year girl, do you???

I DO see Paul saying in Romans:

13Did that which is good, then, bring death to me? By no means! It was sin, producing death in me through what is good, in order that sin might be shown to be sin, and through the commandment might become sinful beyond measure. 14For we know that the law is spiritual, but I am of the flesh, sold under sin. 15For I do not understand my own actions. For I do not do what I want, but I do the very thing I hate. 16Now if I do what I do not want, I agree with the law, that it is good. 17So now it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells within me. 18For I know that nothing good dwells in me, that is, in my flesh. For I have the desire to do what is right, but not the ability to carry it out. 19 For I do not do the good I want, but the evil I do not want is what I keep on doing. 20Now if I do what I do not want, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells within me.

21So I find it to be a law that when I want to do right, evil lies close at hand. 22For I delight in the law of God, in my inner being, 23but I see in my members another law waging war against the law of my mind and making me captive to the law of sin that dwells in my members. 24Wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death? 25Thanks be to God through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, I myself serve the law of God with my mind, but with my flesh I serve the law of sin.

You left out the most important part: Also this discussion is about dying in the act of adultery and going to heaven, are you among those who believe that rapists, pedophilers and those of the most grevious sins are going to heaven without repentance???? This is your chance to tell the whole world that you believe that Christian can be rapists of little girls, pedophilers, etc. Being you jumped in here to defend sin.

Rom 7:22For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:

1Cr 10:13There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God [is] faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear [it].

Romans 6;

1: What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
2: God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
3: Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
4: Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
5: For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
6: Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
7: For he that is dead is freed from sin.

This is Apostle Paul also, please quote this part also, for it is very important. Fail not to declare the whole council of God.

This scripture from Paul is very important also, when it comes to sin!


Rom 6:16Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?


BBob,

 

[tinytim]

1 John 1:8
(8) If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

(Just thought I would get in on the "using the bible as a sword to stab our brothers" act on this thread...)

Ok, I'm out of here.