Christians in politics

[Quantrill]

No. I am not saying we refuse to engage the World.

You have artists, musicians, plumbers, and tent menders. What you do you do for God.

A Christian might be a photographer. But it would be wrong for the Christian to be a photographer in the porn industry. A Christian might be a salesman, but he should not be a drug dealer.

A Christian will want to engage the World, but it is wrong for a Christian to engage the World by participating in the powers of the World.

Christians are not here to try and make the World act godly. Christian are here to engage people with the ministry of reconciliation - pleading that they be reconciled to God.

The World is condemned already. The World is perishing. We are to live as citizens of the Kingdom of God, which means separating ourselves from the powers and principles of the World in order to exist as a holy people, as a light to the World.

Nice speech. But it doesn't address what you said in post #(75).

Your comparison's don't work. You identified politics in post #(75) for a Christian, as politics in the Church. Any politics involving the world was wrong.

Therefore, if a Christian plumber plumbs a home not owned by Christians, then, according to you, he is wrong with God.

All you other speech is just smoke.

Quantrill

 

[tyndale1946]

We are not called to change the world system.

We are called to be used of God to change people.

We are not called to engage the world system.

We are called to engage people.

We are called to be witness of Christ to people who are sinners. This is what Paul called the "ministry of reconciliation".

1 Corinthians 11:1 Be ye followers of me, even as I also am of Christ.... This not directed at you Jon but to all... You who talk the talk, do you walk the walk?... What is the flip side of what Paul says?... If I don't follow Christ!... DON'T YOU FOLLOW ME!... Brother Glen

Btw... Brethren we all walk with feet of clay!

 

[Quantrill]

There is none!

Exactly right.

Quantrill

 

[Yeshua1]

Which party proclaims the gospel?

Muslims believe God exists. Muslims are anti-SSM. Many atheists are anti-abortion. So what?

We are not saved by being morally correct. Those who ware not with Christ are against Christ. Link to the official GOP platform that states the gospel of Jesus Christ.

Do you want to live in a society that states abortion is good, gay and lesbian rights are top of the list, and that basically man is the end of all things then?

 

[Yeshua1]

I like the son

The father wrote the truth!

 

[Yeshua1]

We are not called to change the world system.

We are called to be used of God to change people.

We are not called to engage the world system.

We are called to engage people.

We are called to be witness of Christ to people who are sinners. This is what Paul called the "ministry of reconciliation".

We are called to be the light and the salt into wherever God places us, so we are to redeem the time, and to bring the influence of the Lord Jesus into areas of Darkness!

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

The father wrote the truth!

Have you ever seen the sons explanation ?

 

[Yeshua1]

Have you ever seen the sons explanation ?

Is he not Greek orthodox though?

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Do you want to live in a society that states abortion is good, gay and lesbian rights are top of the list, and that basically man is the end of all things then?

You are a fear freak. Nobody I know sights abortions are good and man is the end of all things. Where is this coming from.... heck, I hope not from your church!

 

[JonC]

Oh LOL... you want to reconcile. That’s not what evangelicals want to do. They want to burn anything down that doesn’t walk lock step with them. Really Jon, there is no love there. You are attempting to discuss love and forgiveness and mercy and humility with people who believe it’s either their way or the highway. And that is why your argument will never gain any traction.

Unfortunately you may be right.

 

[JonC]

Nice speech. But it doesn't address what you said in post #(75).

Your comparison's don't work. You identified politics in post #(75) for a Christian, as politics in the Church. Any politics involving the world was wrong.

Therefore, if a Christian plumber plumbs a home not owned by Christians, then, according to you, he is wrong with God.

All you other speech is just smoke.

Quantrill

The reason you do not understand is you cannot seem to grasp the difference between a vocation and politics.

Plumbing, HVAC, painting, walking a dog, washing cars, etc is not politics.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

I was trying to address your post (I did not understand your comment "If you have changed your view, then perhaps we can look at how my (and the early church) understanding of secular politics is able to destroy Christians").

I think you misunderstood me. First, I was a preacher and am a teacher. I was never a pastor. Second, I never asked you to leave the BB. You said my conscience was "destroying" you to which I replied if that was true you may want to leave the forum (the political forum).

The two forums that generate the most heat are politics and calv/ arm. There are topics from which I refrain because they can become personal. I do not try to silence opinions I find offensive, instead I just do not get into those discussions.

Likewise, if you believe the political forum can be damaging to you, then refrain for your sake. Don't ask others to remain silent, just step back, reevaluate the situation, and then decide if you should continue or look for another topic to discuss.

I post often about Christians being involved in secular politics because I have seen so many people and churches hurt by exchanging the gospel for a social platform. I believe the DNC us evil, but I believe the GOP is even more dangerous to the Church.

I believe this to the extent that I would be unfaithful to remain silent. I know people find my position offensive, but I suggest it has more to do with their involvement with secular politics than my abstaining from secular politics.

For my part, I am not sure how we started not playing nice. Until today I was unaware you were offended by my post. I would rather you let me know if I offend you (often it may be poor word choices on my part) than remain silent to keep the peace.

I promise you, there us nothing you can post that will offend me or cause sore feelings. I am old...ish and stubborn and unless you are 3 feet away with a baseball bat then we're good.

Wooden or aluminum?

 

[JonC]

1 Corinthians 11:1 Be ye followers of me, even as I also am of Christ.... This not directed at you Jon but to all... You who talk the talk, do you walk the walk?... What is the flip side of what Paul says?... If I don't follow Christ!... DON'T YOU FOLLOW ME!... Brother Glen

Btw... Brethren we all walk with feet of clay!

Exactly.

@SGO commented that we cannot be filled with the Spirit 24/7.

I understand this. Scripture gives us black and white; light and darkness; obedient and disobedience; Spirit and fkesh; the world and the kingdom of God.

Yet we do have a foot in both sides. We are not perfected. We do stumble.

 

[JonC]

Do you want to live in a society that states abortion is good, gay and lesbian rights are top of the list, and that basically man is the end of all things then?

Nothing the world does is truly good.

Jesus lived in a society with legalized abortion, homosexuality, paganism, and often the idea man is the end of all things.

Yet Jesus did not challenge the secular world around Him. He challenged those leading God's people.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Is he not Greek orthodox though?

He has insight

 

[JonC]

We are called to be the light and the salt into wherever God places us, so we are to redeem the time, and to bring the influence of the Lord Jesus into areas of Darkness!

If by influence you mean sharing the gospel then I agree.

If you mean trying to make sinners live moral lives, then you are teaching another gospel.

 

[JonC]

Wooden or aluminum?

Wooden. I refuse to be intimated by a man with an aluminum bat. The bat could pose a challenge, but I would assume the man holding the aluminum bat to be a sissy.

 

[Salty]

Six hour warning
This thread will be closed no sooner than 1230 am EST (Thr) / 930 pm PST (Wed)

 

[SGO]

Exactly.

@SGO commented that we cannot be filled with the Spirit 24/7.

I understand this. Scripture gives us black and white; light and darkness; obedient and disobedience; Spirit and fkesh; the world and the kingdom of God.

Yet we do have a foot in both sides. We are not perfected. We do stumble.

Hey Jon,

I clarified that quote with this:

"So you never sin or grieve Him?

He does not leave but He gets hurt.

And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.
Ephesians 4:30"

Post#83

You slipped again using this world's tactics for the "kingdom".

 

[JonC]

Hey Jon,

I clarified that quote with this:

"So you never sin or grieve Him?

He does not leave but He gets hurt.

And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.
Ephesians 4:30"

Post#83

You slipped again using this world's tactics for the "kingdom".

I am not sure what you mean by using "this world's tactics".

I am just saying that Christians are not yet perfected.

John tells us not to sin, but right after that he tells us if we do we have an advocate in Jesus.

We may slip, but we will never fall if we are in Christ. We may sin, but sin will not be the mark of our lives.

That said, we can never try to justify our sin.