Christians, War, and Violence

[1689Dave]

Yet another attempt to nullify scripture. God instituted government on earth and it does not carry the sword for nothing.

Try actually addressing scripture, rather than attempting to say it is wrong.

“but our citizenship is in heaven, from which we also eagerly wait for a Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ.” Philippians 3:20 (HCSB)

 

[Van]

Where is the believer in this?

Yet another attempt to nullify scripture. Believers carry out government tasks including the use of deadly force. Recall all the examples from Hebrews 11 and the Centurion?

 

[1689Dave]

Yet another attempt to nullify scripture. Believers carry out government tasks including the use of deadly force. Recall all the examples from Hebrews 11 and the Centurion?

He not me, is the magistrate.

 

[Van]

“but our citizenship is in heaven, from which we also eagerly wait for a Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ.” Philippians 3:20 (HCSB)

Yet another attempt to remove us from our job as servants of Christ, as His ambassadors in the world but not of the world.

 

[1689Dave]

Yet another attempt to remove us from our job as servants of Christ, as His ambassadors in the world but not of the world.

How do you kill the group you should be witnessing to instead, and remain a follower of Christ?

 

[Van]

He not me, is the magistrate.

On and on you are denying scripture, but scripture provides many examples of believers acting within government authority using deadly force.

 

[1689Dave]

On and on you are denying scripture, but scripture provides many examples of believers acting within government authority using deadly force.

You cannot say the believer is the magistrate based on this passage.

 

[Van]

How do you kill the group you should be witnessing to instead, and remain a follower of Christ?

Yet another attempt to nullify scripture. Protecting others according to government authority is carried out by believers in both the Old and New Testament.

 

[Van]

You cannot say the believer is the magistrate based on this passage.

Stop misrepresenting my position. Provide a quote where I said such a thing. You cannot. You are now wasting elections using strawman arguments.

Scripture is clear, acting under government authority believers can and do use deadly force. See Hebrews 11 and the Centurion.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

I'm busy, my centurion is on my case about sharpening my sword, and then we have to go to the motor pool and pull maintenance on the chariots.

Of course... you never know when Hannibal could be at the gate.

 

[robycop3]

I guess you are calling God a liar. Not surprising you have already devised your own doctrine and are trying to establish it as Christian.
2John 1:
Beware of Deceivers
…9Anyone who runs ahead without remaining in the teaching of Christ does not have God. Whoever remains in His teaching has both the Father and the Son. 10If anyone comes to you but does not bring this teaching, do not receive him into your home or even greet him. 11Whoever greets such a person shares in his evil deeds.…

Consider this then a final GOODBYE to you.

No, that'd be YOU & your cult, with your "edomite Jew" goofiness & other hooey you've posted here. I go by SCRIPTURE, believed literally as possible, frr of man's false interps.

 

[Squire Robertsson]

Six Hour Warning
This thread will be closed sometime after 4:50 PM Pacific.

 

[1689Dave]

Stop misrepresenting my position. Provide a quote where I said such a thing. You cannot. You are now wasting elections using strawman arguments.

Scripture is clear, acting under government authority believers can and do use deadly force. See Hebrews 11 and the Centurion.

This is not true. Notice;

“Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord. Therefore if thine enemy hunger, feed him; if he thirst, give him drink: for in so doing thou shalt heap coals of fire on his head. Be not overcome of evil, but overcome evil with good. Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God. Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation. For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same: For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil.” Romans 12:19–13:4 (KJV 1900)

 

[1689Dave]

Yet another attempt to nullify scripture. Protecting others according to government authority is carried out by believers in both the Old and New Testament.

If you and yours die upholding Christ's words, you all get the martyr's crown. And Go to heaven which is far better than any life on earth. If you prevent this using violence, you and they both loose and must suffer life's ailments till you die. If you step in and prolong the life of the wicked using violence, you not only lose, but they have more sins to pay for in eternity than they would had you not intervened. Follow Jesus' teachings on non violence, it's the only sane thing a person can do.

 

[1689Dave]

“If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed: for he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds.” 2 John 10–11 (KJV 1900)

Which doctrine is John speaking of?

“And it came to pass, when Jesus had ended these sayings, the people were astonished at his doctrine: For he taught them as one having authority, and not as the scribes.” Matthew 7:28–29 (KJV 1900)


The Doctrine = the Sermon on the Mount.


“Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth: But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also. And if any man will sue thee at the law, and take away thy coat, let him have thy cloke also. And whosoever shall compel thee to go a mile, go with him twain. Give to him that asketh thee, and from him that would borrow of thee turn not thou away. Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy. But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you; That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.” Matthew 5:38–45 (KJV 1900)

 

[OfLivingWaters]

This is not true. Notice;

“Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord. Therefore if thine enemy hunger, feed him; if he thirst, give him drink: for in so doing thou shalt heap coals of fire on his head. Be not overcome of evil, but overcome evil with good. Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God. Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation. For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same: For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil.” Romans 12:19–13:4 (KJV 1900)

I think you misunderstand. You are taking from two different chapters and misinterpreting both by mashing them up to fit your narrative.

Romans 13 King James Version (KJV)
13 Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God.
ordained. Ordained means invested with the authority to act as a priest. ... Ordained comes from the root meaning "order," and when you are ordained, you're brought into the religious order, or group of church leaders.

2 Whosoever therefore resisteth the power (OF AN ORDAINED PRIEST), resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation.

3 For rulers ( CONCERNING RULERS AS PRIEST IN GOD)are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power?( POWER GIVEN THEM BY GOD) do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same:

4 For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil. ( THE SWORD HERE IS THE POWER OF THE HOLY SPIRIT IN WORD which slays, just as it did Ananias and Sapphira).

5 Wherefore ye must needs be subject, not only for wrath, but also for conscience sake.

6 For for this cause pay ye tribute also: for they are God's ministers, attending continually upon this very thing.( TITHES ARE THE TRIBUTE, which Ananias and Sapphira held back and lied about)

7 Render therefore to all their dues: tribute to whom tribute is due; custom to whom custom; fear to whom fear; honour to whom honour.

8 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.

9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

11 And that, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep: for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed.

12 The night is far spent, the day is at hand: let us therefore cast off the works of darkness, and let us put on the armour of light.

13 Let us walk honestly, as in the day; not in rioting and drunkenness, not in chambering and wantonness, not in strife and envying.

14 But put ye on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make not provision for the flesh, to fulfil the lusts thereof.

 

[1689Dave]

I think you misunderstand. You are taking from two different chapters and misinterpreting both by mashing them up to fit your narrative.

Romans 13 King James Version (KJV)
13 Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God.
ordained. Ordained means invested with the authority to act as a priest. ... Ordained comes from the root meaning "order," and when you are ordained, you're brought into the religious order, or group of church leaders.

2 Whosoever therefore resisteth the power (OF AN ORDAINED PRIEST), resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation.

3 For rulers ( CONCERNING RULERS AS PRIEST IN GOD)are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power?( POWER GIVEN THEM BY GOD) do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same:

4 For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil. ( THE SWORD HERE IS THE POWER OF THE HOLY SPIRIT IN WORD which slays, just as it did Ananias and Sapphira).

5 Wherefore ye must needs be subject, not only for wrath, but also for conscience sake.

6 For for this cause pay ye tribute also: for they are God's ministers, attending continually upon this very thing.( TITHES ARE THE TRIBUTE, which Ananias and Sapphira held back and lied about)

7 Render therefore to all their dues: tribute to whom tribute is due; custom to whom custom; fear to whom fear; honour to whom honour.

8 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.

9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

11 And that, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep: for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed.

12 The night is far spent, the day is at hand: let us therefore cast off the works of darkness, and let us put on the armour of light.

13 Let us walk honestly, as in the day; not in rioting and drunkenness, not in chambering and wantonness, not in strife and envying.

14 But put ye on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make not provision for the flesh, to fulfil the lusts thereof.

Paul didn't write in chapters. They are one narrative that says you are wrong if you tolerate violence for any reason for believers. Plus John says any who deny the doctrine (teaching) of Christ, have not God.

 

[OfLivingWaters]

I smell an AGENDA! Well no coincidence that this forum is most military rather than Christian.

 

[1689Dave]

Ironically, it was a kind old soul from my IFBC that went with me for my draft board interrogation. Respecting my views even though the church was crawling with a pro War element. He really stuck his neck out for me.

 

[OfLivingWaters]

Paul didn't write in chapters. They are one narrative that says you are wrong if you tolerate violence for any reason for believers. Plus John says any who deny the doctrine (teaching) of Christ, have not God.

Makes no difference to what ordained of God is and being subject to that in obedience and what subject to worldly authorities means .....that means not reacting violently to their subjugation over you as an evil authority.