Christians, War, and Violence

[1689Dave]

So blame God for your false doctrine and worldly pacifism. How convenient. So God sent the rapist to rape your wife?

You need to have faith in all matters.

 

[GoodTidings]

So you defend Homosexuality, Abortion, and don't think war is judgement for this and more?

I don't defend either homosexuality or abortion. Where do you find that I ever defended those things? How is war judgment?

 

[GoodTidings]

You need to have faith in all matters.

So God would send a rapist to rape your wife? You really believe God would do that to your wife? You think that is faith?

 

[1689Dave]

So God would send a rapist to rape your wife? You really believe God would do that to your wife? You think that is faith?

Did God send lions to kill the early Church? “And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.” Revelation 6:11 (KJV 1900)

 

[1689Dave]

I don't defend either homosexuality or abortion. Where do you find that I ever defended those things? How is war judgment?

Would you defend America in light of these?

 

[Aaron]

Haven't read the whole thread.

It's foolish to think that love means refusing to resist and restrain an evildoer. God chastens those He loves.

The commandment in the Sermon on the Mount to resist not evil is has nothing to do with law enforcement, national defense or one's civil duty to protect his neighbor. Paul states in Romans 13 that those who bear the sword are God's ministers to punish evildoers. You don't think Christians can serve in magisterial offices?

In fact loving one's neighbor as himself is a clear command to use deadly force if necessary to protect one's neighbor from his assailant, and his neighbor's wife from her rapist.

The "eye for an eye" commandment had been corrupted by rabbinical tradition to apply not only to magistrates in matters of civil law, but also to individuals in their personal and private lives and the offenses and inconveniences that arise—the smiting on the cheek, the compulsion to go a mile. Those are evil things. But they are not at the level of dismemberment. Christ did not say whosoever shall cut off thy right hand, offer thy left one, too.

Violence is the only check on the violent, and when God's enemies can be restrained no other way, then Christians must take up weapons and kill them.

 

[1689Dave]

Haven't read the whole thread.

It's foolish to think that love means refusing to resist and restrain an evildoer. God chastens those He loves.

The commandment in the Sermon on the Mount to resist not evil is has nothing to do with law enforcement, national defense or one's civil duty to protect his neighbor. Paul states in Romans 13 that those who bear the sword are God's ministers to punish evildoers. You don't think Christians can serve in magisterial offices?

In fact loving one's neighbor as himself is a clear command to use deadly force if necessary to protect one's neighbor from his assailant, and his neighbor's wife from her rapist.

The "eye for an eye" commandment had been corrupted by rabbinical tradition to apply not only to magistrates in matters of civil law, but also to individuals in their personal and private lives and the offenses and inconveniences that arise—the smiting on the cheek, the compulsion to go a mile. Those are evil things. But they are not at the level of dismemberment. Christ did not say whosoever shall cut off thy right hand, offer thy left one, too.

Violence is the only check on the violent, and when God's enemies can be restrained no other way, then Christians must take up weapons and kill them.

But, where does Jesus teach this? He teaches against violence in any form.

 

[Adonia]

But, where does Jesus teach this? He teaches against violence in any form.

Her also teaches that we should be our brothers keeper. So tell us all, how many homeless people do you have living in your house? In fact, the way you interpret Christ's instructions to us you should give up your house to them and move to a small shack in your backyard as anything less on your part would be an abrogation of your attempt to follow Christ to the letter.

 

[Adonia]

Think of it this way. If someone kills me or my family, we go to heaven upholding Jesus' words. If we kill them, we violate Jesus' words and live to suffer old age and go to heaven on less honorable terms. If I stand by and let someone kill an unbeliever, the unbeliever has less to suffer in hell than if they had a life time of sin to pay for. Pacifism is the only sane choice.

Again, so you could stand by and do nothing while your 10 year old daughter was violently sexually assaulted?

 

[1689Dave]

Her also teaches that we should be our brothers keeper. So tell us all, how many homeless people do you have living in your house? In fact, the way you interpret Christ's instructions to us you should give up your house to them and move to a small shack in your backyard as anything less on your part would be an abrogation of your attempt to follow Christ to the letter.

But this does not permit violence which Jesus repeatedly forbids. And no Christians in the NT practice. “Seeing his days are determined, The number of his months are with thee, Thou hast appointed his bounds that he cannot pass;” Job 14:5 (KJV 1900)

 

[1689Dave]

Again, so you could stand by and do nothing while your 10 year old daughter was violently sexually assaulted?

You assume too much.

 

[GoodTidings]

Would you defend America in light of these?

Those things don't define what America is, and yes I would defend the US in spite of, not because of those things.

 

[GoodTidings]

But this does not permit violence which Jesus repeatedly forbids. And no Christians in the NT practice. “Seeing his days are determined, The number of his months are with thee, Thou hast appointed his bounds that he cannot pass;” Job 14:5 (KJV 1900)

Jesus never forbids violence. You overstate and pervert the words of Jesus.

 

[1689Dave]

Jesus never forbids violence. You overstate and pervert the words of Jesus.

Show where he allows for it in believers.

 

[GoodTidings]

But, where does Jesus teach this? He teaches against violence in any form.

No, He does not. You are trying to project your worldliness onto Jesus. Jesus, nowhere forbids violence in any and all forms.

 

[Adonia]

Did God send lions to kill the early Church? “And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.” Revelation 6:11 (KJV 1900)

I see, so it was just fine that Hitler killed 6 million Jews and 4 million others and the rest of the world was to just stand by and do nothing? Easy for you to say as you and your family were not one of those getting killed.

 

[1689Dave]

Those things don't define what America is, and yes I would defend the US in spite of, not because of those things.

The bible teaches all nations are under Satan's domain. Why would a Christian become entangled in Satan's follies?

 

[GoodTidings]

Show where he allows for it in believers.

Jesus doesn't address it at all. He doesn't encourage it, but He doesn't forbid it. And that's the problem. You are overstating and misrepresenting the words of Jesus.

 

[Adonia]

You assume too much.

You just said in a previous post that getting raped had to be tolerated also, so which is it?

 

[1689Dave]

I see, so it was just fine that Hitler killed 6 million Jews and 4 million others and the rest of the world was to just stand by and do nothing? Easy for you to say as you and your family were not one of those getting killed.

God condemned the Jews and history proves it was quite harsh. Paul says wrath is on them until the end.