Christians, War, and Violence

[Earth Wind and Fire]

War from driving money changers out of the temple in fulling prophecy?

LOL

 

[robycop3]

What violence did Jesus use??? ,concerning the NC.?I know Jesus is God. What was commanded to do under the OC, it was the Word who spoke it. For whoever hears God is Hearing His Word. As Ecclesiastes says though;
Ecclesiastes 3 King James Version (KJV)
3 To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven:

2 A time to be born, and a time to die; a time to plant, and a time to pluck up that which is planted;

3 A time to kill, and a time to heal; a time to break down, and a time to build up;

4 A time to weep, and a time to laugh; a time to mourn, and a time to dance;

5 A time to cast away stones, and a time to gather stones together; a time to embrace, and a time to refrain from embracing;

6 A time to get, and a time to lose; a time to keep, and a time to cast away;

7 A time to rend, and a time to sew; a time to keep silence, and a time to speak;

8 A time to love, and a time to hate; a time of war, and a time of peace.

A new season came with the Birth in flesh of our God as our Christ.

Isaiah 9:6 King James Version (KJV)
6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
those who are born of Christ are born in and of His season which is peace.

Why? Isaiah 9:5 is clear:…5For every trampling boot of battle and every garment rolled in blood will be burned as fuel for the fire.

Of the increase of His kingdom which is of peace , there shall be no end. That means as people are born of Him they are His peace . That is the kingdom which shall never end!

7Of the increase of His government and peace there will be no end. He will reign on the throne of David and over his kingdom, to establish and sustain it with justice and righteousness( from that time -HIS BIRTH ) and forevermore. The zeal of the LORD of Hosts will accomplish this.…

The battle is not ours , it is the Lord's.

And he shall judge among the nations, and shall rebuke many people: and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more. (Isaiah 2:4).

Why the statement of plowshares and pruninghooks?
1Corinthians 3:8-9
God's Fellow Workers
…8He who plants and he who waters are one in purpose, and each will be rewarded according to his own labor. 9For we are God’s fellow workers; you are God’s field, God’s building.
Matthew 9:36-38
The Lord of the Harvest
…36When He saw the crowds, He was moved with compassion for them, because they were harassed and helpless, like sheep without a shepherd. 37Then He said to his disciples, “The harvest is plentiful, but the workers are few.( If not for the few heaven would have none) 38Ask the Lord of the harvest, therefore, to send out workers into His harvest.”…

That is the reason for the Isaiah 2:4 statements and imagery.
2 Corinthians 10:4 King James Version (KJV)
4 (For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds
Ephesians 6:11-18 King James Version (KJV)
11 Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.

12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

13 Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.

14 Stand therefore, having your loins girt about with truth, and having on the breastplate of righteousness;

15 And your feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace;

16 Above all, taking the shield of faith, wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked.

17 And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:

18 Praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, and watching thereunto with all perseverance and supplication for all saints;
Peace in Yeshua Hameshiach!

Ya passed right over Eccl. 3:3 - "a time to KILL".

What violence did Jesus use? He punched, kicked, & beat the merchants in the temple with a knotted rope. I'm sure they didn't leave willingly til he "persuaded" them it's be in their best interest to do so.

 

[kyredneck]

You are a hypocrite. ...You are a fraud.

You're out of order. Examine yourself. Under scrutiny you're most likely what you accuse him of.

 

[GoodTidings]

No I know exactly what I am talking about you just do not like it. . Who demonized anyone? I am simply teaching what the scriptures clearly say.

No, you are not. You are applying the Scriptures to an issue they don't teach at all. Pacifism is a secular concept and you have to pervert the Bible in order to promote it.

 

[1689Dave]

Right and what about the Centurion under the New Covenant. Your interpretation is flawed. Acting under the color of authority, such as military or police, Christians can and do employ deadly force to protect others.

Scripture offers three cases, acting individually, acting as the church, and acting under government authority.

We have no NT scripture supporting Christians using violence to defend themselves or anyone else. Jesus taught the opposite.

 

[1689Dave]

Dave, Dave, Dave... I'm not Jesus... I wore the same uniform that Mitchell wore... Sworn to defend my country from all enemies foreign and domestic... As I heard my friend who has been a pastor over 60 years say... You can say what you would do and may convince others of the same but you have no idea of your course of action until the moment comes?... I and Mitchell and the others on here were willing to sacrifice our lives so you didn't have to... Did we do it because we were vindictive?... I can't speak for others on here I let them speak for themselves, I did it because it was my duty and honor to protect others. even you... Who would not even be on the BB if we didn't... What if God told Israel to fight and they sat on the seat of do nothing... God is a God of War... And we must defend our family and our freedoms at all cost... Speaking of wives the scriptures also say this... Brother Glen

Ephesians 5:25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;

5:26 That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,

5:27 That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.

5:28 So ought men to love their wives as their own bodies. He that loveth his wife loveth himself.

I faced 5 years in prison refusing military service in the Vietnam War. Eventually being drafted as a civilian Conscientious Objector. And also became disowned by my family who ended up eating lots of crow when the truth about the war became known.

Think of it this way. If someone kills me or my family, we go to heaven upholding Jesus' words. If we kill them, we violate Jesus' words and live to suffer old age and go to heaven on less honorable terms. If I stand by and let someone kill an unbeliever, the unbeliever has less to suffer in hell than if they had a life time of sin to pay for. Pacifism is the only sane choice.

 

[1689Dave]

Do you take the more moderate viewpoint of refusing to kill to someone to defend yourself? Or do you take the more extreme viewpoint of also refusing to do any violence including grappling someone or punching someone to stop them from killing someone else? Would you refuse to use a taser or pepper spray to stop someone?​

Think of it this way. If someone kills me or my family, we go to heaven upholding Jesus' words. If we kill them, we violate Jesus' words and live to suffer old age and go to heaven on less honorable terms. If I stand by and let someone kill an unbeliever, the unbeliever has less to suffer in hell than if they had a life time of sin to pay for. Pacifism is the only sane choice.

 

[1689Dave]

How many women were raped around Jesus? How many innocent people were murdered around Jesus? How many apostles were beat or killed around Jesus? Who murdered Mary when Jesus was around?

Jesus made sure that people did not suffer or die around him. I believe that he would want us to do the same. I believe how to do this is more nuanced.

How many die of horrible diseases clawing and fighting for survival at the expense of following Jesus? I would rather suffer any death upholding Jesus' words than what others face in not doing so even if raped in the process.

 

[1689Dave]

That is not even remotely the same thing and intelligent thinking people know the difference. Prostitution is actually sin. The Bible NOWHERE says that being in the military is a sin. That is a sin you are trying to manufacture. If you are opposed to being in the military, that is your business, but to come and claim that it is wrong for Christians to be in the military is not simply not supported by the Bible.

I would also point out that defending your family from a violent intruder is not deemed sinful in Scripture. Again, that is a sin you are manufacturing.

If you choose to be a pathetic, rotten man and a walking/breathing disgrace to humanity and let an intruder kill your wife and kids, that is up to you. You don't deserve a family, if that is the case, but that's up to you.

Real men who are worth something will defend their families.

killing is a business just like prostitution. The love of money is the root of ALL evil including war.

 

[GoodTidings]

killing is a business just like prostitution. The love of money is the root of ALL evil including war.

Then why do you enjoy the fruits of evil? If you are going to enjoy the fruit of evil, you are as guilty of the same evil.

 

[GoodTidings]

How many die of horrible diseases clawing and fighting for survival at the expense of following Jesus? I would rather suffer any death upholding Jesus' words than what others face in not doing so even if raped in the process.

So you would let your wife be raped? You would just stand there and let that happen?

 

[GoodTidings]

Think of it this way. If someone kills me or my family, we go to heaven upholding Jesus' words. If we kill them, we violate Jesus' words and live to suffer old age and go to heaven on less honorable terms. If I stand by and let someone kill an unbeliever, the unbeliever has less to suffer in hell than if they had a life time of sin to pay for. Pacifism is the only sane choice.

No, pacifism only emboldens evil. People like you make evil more possible. More people suffer because others stand by and allow evil to continue and grow. That isn't sane, nor is it biblical. Nothing in the Bible prohibits self-defense or defense of family. You have pervert Scripture to do that. You have to love the world more than love God in order to promote the insanity of pacifism.

 

[1689Dave]

No, pacifism only emboldens evil. People like you make evil more possible. More people suffer because others stand by and allow evil to continue and grow. That isn't sane, nor is it biblical. Nothing in the Bible prohibits self-defense or defense of family. You have pervert Scripture to do that. You have to love the world more than love God in order to promote the insanity of pacifism.

God controls evil. Are you trying to interfere with his judgement on nations?

 

[1689Dave]

So you would let your wife be raped? You would just stand there and let that happen?

Would you let your wife die from the ravages of cancer? What if God sent a means for her to escape that and you killed it?

 

[1689Dave]

Then why do you enjoy the fruits of evil? If you are going to enjoy the fruit of evil, you are as guilty of the same evil.

I can pick up and move on as the early Christians did. Notice, none of them stuck around to fight for Jerusalem.

 

[GoodTidings]

I can pick up and move on as the early Christians did. Notice, none of them stuck around to fight for Jerusalem.

But you live in the US enjoying the fruit of evil. So you really don't have the strength of your convictions. You condemn what you think is evil, but you continue to enjoy those things that evil gives you. Pretty much shows your hypocrisy.

 

[GoodTidings]

Would you let your wife die from the ravages of cancer? What if God sent a means for her to escape that and you killed it?

Yes, I would seek all possible treatments for cancer, but I would not let the doctor come in kill my wife.

But cancer is not the same as being raped. Women survive rape. You would let your wife be raped and force her to live with that rape and be forced to live with you just standing there and letting it happen. She would have the displeasure of having to look at you every day and live with that horror, a horror you allowed. That is nothing to be proud of and that is not in keeping with the Bible. You basically allowed a rapist to come in and violate your marriage covenant.

That's pretty sick on your part.

 

[1689Dave]

Yes, I would seek all possible treatments for cancer, but I would not let the doctor come in kill my wife.

But cancer is not the same as being raped. Women survive rape. You would let your wife be raped and force her to live with that rape and be forced to live with you just standing there and letting it happen. She would have the displeasure of having to look at you every day and live with that horror, a horror you allowed. That is nothing to be proud of and that is not in keeping with the Bible. You basically allowed a rapist to come in and violate your marriage covenant.

That's pretty sick on your part.

If you know God controls all, even the death of a sparrow, it's easier to have faith in these matters.

 

[1689Dave]

But you live in the US enjoying the fruit of evil. So you really don't have the strength of your convictions. You condemn what you think is evil, but you continue to enjoy those things that evil gives you. Pretty much shows your hypocrisy.

So you defend Homosexuality, Abortion, and don't think war is judgement for this and more?

 

[GoodTidings]

If you know God controls all, even the death of a sparrow, it's easier to have faith in these matters.

So blame God for your false doctrine and worldly pacifism. How convenient. So God sent the rapist to rape your wife?