1689Dave
Well-Known Member
Or using violence at all. = they bear the sword, not the Christian.
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Christians, War, and Violence
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Can anyone identify their enemy or enemies? And, are you on their enemies list? If you can make a list, what action should you take to defuse the animosity?
I was "jumped" in an alley while serving in Japan in '63. Because of that unprovoked attack I have lingering physical ailments. Were those five individuals my enemies? If they confronted me today, I would not seek revenge.
I could not produce a list of those I would be willing to kill because of their offenses against me.
Consider the following:
G2190 Vine's Expository Dictionary: enemy (30x), foe (2x).
Outline of Biblical Usage [?]
hated, odious, hateful
hostile, hating, and opposing another
used of men as at enmity with God by their sin
opposing (God) in the mind
a man that is hostile
a certain enemy
the hostile one
the devil who is the most bitter enemy of the divine government
While hatred and hostility can escalate to deadly force, it should not be so with a man professing to be a born-again believer. And most assuredly, between two Christians. There are Biblical steps to be followed in an attempt to defuse the situation.
I was "jumped" in an alley while serving in Japan in '63. Because of that unprovoked attack I have lingering physical ailments. Were those five individuals my enemies? If they confronted me today, I would not seek revenge.
I could not produce a list of those I would be willing to kill because of their offenses against me.
Consider the following:
G2190 Vine's Expository Dictionary: enemy (30x), foe (2x).
Outline of Biblical Usage [?]
hated, odious, hateful
hostile, hating, and opposing another
used of men as at enmity with God by their sin
opposing (God) in the mind
a man that is hostile
a certain enemy
the hostile one
the devil who is the most bitter enemy of the divine government
While hatred and hostility can escalate to deadly force, it should not be so with a man professing to be a born-again believer. And most assuredly, between two Christians. There are Biblical steps to be followed in an attempt to defuse the situation.
OfLivingWaters
Active Member
Well thank God that neither I nor my husband have ever had to . I pray God keep us in His Grace and Mercy, so that even if we thought we might be weak if in such a spot, Christ would prevail, ISRAEL, May God Prevail! I pray the Spirit be stronger over the flesh that is weak.
Peter thought he was strong , Christ showed him he was weak, them in that lesson he fulfilled his vow to Christ. Sometimes we say no, but then still go do what we are commanded.Others still yet say YES and do not go. I choose to state my weak thoughts and never think myself greater than I am. I will wait to see if I succeed in passing the test. So far so good, as for the greater ones, I can make no promises , I learned that from my brother St. Peter. I will hope , I know what I want to be , and I will lean on God's Mercy to run my race and win and lay hold of that Victor's crown. For now it is enough to strive toward what Christ laid hold of me for. I pray that for the rest of my family as well.
Thank the Good Lord
Oh gee that sounds sensible! Allow someone to kill you and your family so you don’t have to get old, sick and die
. Gosh Dave, do you work for an insurance company?
You're getting a little close to the line.I smell an AGENDA! Well no coincidence that this forum is most military rather than Christian.
OfLivingWaters
Active Member
The day is already here and began with Christ's Birth, and grows as men throughout time receive that truth in their hearts. Those who deny that truth remain under judgement and exercise their carnal desires, which war mongers revel in. The ordained of God do not fight in wars. Christ will work out the kinks in those who He calls elect and chosen.
Matthew 26:
Then the men stepped forward, seized Jesus, and arrested Him. 51At this, one of Jesus’ companions drew his sword and struck the servant of the high priest, cutting off his ear.
52“Put your sword back in its place,” Jesus said to him. “For all who draw the sword will die by the sword. 53Are you not aware that I can call on My Father, and He will at once put at My disposal more than twelve legions of angels? 54But how then would the Scriptures be fulfilled that say it must happen this way?”
55At that time Jesus said to the crowd, “Have you come out with swords and clubs to arrest Me as you would an outlaw? Every day I sat teaching in the temple courts, and you did not arrest Me. 56But this has all happened so that the writings of the prophets would be fulfilled.”
Then all the disciples deserted Him and fled.
John 21:17-19
Jesus Reinstates Peter
…17Jesus asked a third time, “Simon son of John, do you love Me?” Peter was deeply hurt that Jesus had asked him a third time, “Do you love Me?” “Lord, You know all things,” he replied. “You know I love You.” Jesus said to him, “Feed My sheep. 18Truly, truly, I tell you, when you were young, you dressed yourself and walked where you wanted; but when you are old, you will stretch out your hands, and someone else will dress you and lead you where you do not want to go.” 19Jesus said this to indicate the kind of death by which Peter would glorify God. And after He had said this, He told him, “Follow Me.”…
Egad... they should just say thank you then leave the country.
I don’t know, still plenty of pacifists in my family, on the Mennonite hillbilly side.
But none of them have ever questioned the salvation of us who took up arms.
You didn't answer. Moderate or extreme pacifism? I'll have to assume the most extreme pacifism.
So, if a 6-year old deaf child walks into a street and is about to be hit but a car, you will refuse to pull him unwillingly back to the sidewalk because that would be violence. After-all, the kid was just going to enter the kingdom of heaven early.
Since you didn't directly answer my question, I tried to interpret your answer as best as possible.
But I must say you have a rather extreme Koreshian viewpoint of Matthew 19:14.
OfLivingWaters
Active Member
OP: Christians, War and Violence........
Does that mean that only the opinions of war and Violence count in this thread?
"He who lives by the sword shall die by the sword" . Did I coin the phrase or did Christ?
What does it actually mean?
There are those after all , who do not live by the sword , and still die by a sword.
And there are those who have lived by the sword all their lives and have died from natural causes.
So what is the sword that one who lives by the sword dies from?
The bible likens the word of God to such a sword. “For the word of God is alive and exerts power and is sharper than any two-edged sword and pierces even to the dividing of soul and spirit, and of joints from the marrow, and is able to discern thoughts and intentions of the heart.” Hebrews 4:12
It would seem those who hate me are hating what they feel from the Living Word of God which speaks through me.
Revelation 2:16
16Therefore repent! Otherwise I will come to you shortly and wage war against them with the sword of My mouth.
It would seem the Second sword Christ says one dies by ,when he lives by the carnal sword , is the Word of God. Be mad at me all you want. The only line I am afraid to cross is the one drawn in sand by Christ.
Admittedly I , and all have weak thoughts , but as I said , I will by no means deny what Christ has said. I may even vocalize what I might do in my human weakness, but as I said as Christ said '
Matthew 21:28-
The Parable of the Two Sons
28“But what do you think? There was a man who had two sons. He went to the first one and said, ‘Son, go and work today in the vineyard.’
29‘I will not,’ he replied. But later he changed his mind and went.
30Then the man went to the second son and told him the same thing.
‘I will, sir,’ he said. But he did not go.
31Which of the two did the will of his father?”
“The first,” they answered.
Someone thought he had an 'Ah Ha gotcha moment with me", My Lord never lets me get caught in anyone's traps, I am commissioned to catch the little foxes , no one catches me. There is always a reason and method for what I post, THANKS BE TO MY REDEEMER JESUS CHRIST who always has my back. I lean upon My Beloved.
As for leaving this country EWF, I am already gone!, and have been gone since I have been within the Spirit of the kingdom of heaven.
1 Peter 2:10-11
The Living Stone
…10Once you were not a people, but now you are the people of God; once you had not received mercy, but now you have received mercy. 11Beloved, I urge you, as foreigners and exiles, to abstain from the desires of the flesh, which war against your soul.
Hence, why Christ said be in the world but not of it. I do not play nice , especially when people try to make mince meat of the written word which says what it says . They who are opposed to it simply do not like Christ. Can not be opposed to His Words and not be opposed to Him. That is Elementary. That is MY Christian response to this OP Christians (WHICH I AM), War and Violence .
Does that mean that only the opinions of war and Violence count in this thread?
"He who lives by the sword shall die by the sword" . Did I coin the phrase or did Christ?
What does it actually mean?
There are those after all , who do not live by the sword , and still die by a sword.
And there are those who have lived by the sword all their lives and have died from natural causes.
So what is the sword that one who lives by the sword dies from?
The bible likens the word of God to such a sword. “For the word of God is alive and exerts power and is sharper than any two-edged sword and pierces even to the dividing of soul and spirit, and of joints from the marrow, and is able to discern thoughts and intentions of the heart.” Hebrews 4:12
It would seem those who hate me are hating what they feel from the Living Word of God which speaks through me.
Revelation 2:16
16Therefore repent! Otherwise I will come to you shortly and wage war against them with the sword of My mouth.
It would seem the Second sword Christ says one dies by ,when he lives by the carnal sword , is the Word of God. Be mad at me all you want. The only line I am afraid to cross is the one drawn in sand by Christ.
Admittedly I , and all have weak thoughts , but as I said , I will by no means deny what Christ has said. I may even vocalize what I might do in my human weakness, but as I said as Christ said '
Matthew 21:28-
The Parable of the Two Sons
28“But what do you think? There was a man who had two sons. He went to the first one and said, ‘Son, go and work today in the vineyard.’
29‘I will not,’ he replied. But later he changed his mind and went.
30Then the man went to the second son and told him the same thing.
‘I will, sir,’ he said. But he did not go.
31Which of the two did the will of his father?”
“The first,” they answered.
Someone thought he had an 'Ah Ha gotcha moment with me", My Lord never lets me get caught in anyone's traps, I am commissioned to catch the little foxes , no one catches me. There is always a reason and method for what I post, THANKS BE TO MY REDEEMER JESUS CHRIST who always has my back. I lean upon My Beloved.
As for leaving this country EWF, I am already gone!, and have been gone since I have been within the Spirit of the kingdom of heaven.
1 Peter 2:10-11
The Living Stone
…10Once you were not a people, but now you are the people of God; once you had not received mercy, but now you have received mercy. 11Beloved, I urge you, as foreigners and exiles, to abstain from the desires of the flesh, which war against your soul.
Hence, why Christ said be in the world but not of it. I do not play nice , especially when people try to make mince meat of the written word which says what it says . They who are opposed to it simply do not like Christ. Can not be opposed to His Words and not be opposed to Him. That is Elementary. That is MY Christian response to this OP Christians (WHICH I AM), War and Violence .
Who wants to prolong the life of the wicked? If they attempt to harm one of my loved ones and I am at home, their life will not be prolonged I tell you that.
This is a part of the Sermon on the Mount. Jesus is not talking to Christians.
[Mat 5:1-2 KJV] 1 And seeing the multitudes, he went up into a mountain: and when he was set, his disciples came unto him: 2 And he opened his mouth, and taught them, saying,
The problem is that you are not following Jesus's words. Jesus said turn the other cheek - not if someone murders your mother, let them murder your wife as well. The extreme nature of your interpretation is disturbing. I don't see any words of Jesus interpreting the extreme pacifist reaction to extreme violence which you recommend.
OfLivingWaters
Active Member
Obviously they could only become Christian after hearing Him. He came to make people like Himself. He was sent into the world to draw from it, men unto Himself. Those in whom His word is received are on their way to being born again of His spirit.
What do you think it means when the scriptures say "if not for the few heaven would have none"? No one said His teachings are not a bitter thing.to digest That is not the issue, my issue is when men try to twist what He is saying and what His purpose of coming into the world means.
I get it , it is no easy feet to do what Christ said, but if one is going to follow Him ,His standard is what is to be followed. Manipulating the scriptures and making them serve ones own purpose is not cool. Simply admit what He says is true and it is difficult to do . But people need to get off it, and stop changing the meaning of Christianity. Have you no fear of God???!Face it CHRIST..... He is the Man, the BOMB, a very High standard to roll with . So the moral of the story ,the REAL warriors are those you can do as He did.
But simple men like Peter accomplished it. Soldiers like Paul who was one for the Sanhedrin, did it. People who worked for the government as tax collectors did it! Prostitutes who heard and believed , did it!
But they did not do it, because they made His doctrine out to be what they wanted it to be. But because they believed in the impossible for men of flesh, but not men born of His Spirit , which conquers the impossible according to the flesh. He will come through. JESUS TAKE THE WHEEL! It is not by ones OWN strength that he serves God as He says. People in here blast people for upholding Faith and Works= those done in the new man, but say , somehow in their brains that shooting people , even innocent people is a Work in faith????? No , healing is a work in faith, binding the wounds of the hurt and broken is a work in faith, casting out devils is a work in faith. feeding the hungry , giving people Christ, that is work in faith, but for sure killing your enemy, blowing up towns and cities. Causing children to loose parents and causing the innocent to die with the evil is a work of the flesh PERIOD!
It is the end of days, the last church is sister to the first as John writes.
2 John 1:13
Final Greetings
12I have many things to write you, but I would prefer not to use paper and ink. Instead, I hope to come and speak with you face to face, so that our joy may be complete. 13The children of your elect sister send you greetings.
I go into forums to see if I meet any Elect of the End Times.
I also make Elect out of those I encounter. Sometimes I am just to do seed dropping God gives growth. And to those who think there are no True followers in all denominations , then they are of a cult mind. Because anyone who can do the Confessing of 1 John 4, the Spirit of God is within them. If a person can Confess what Gabriel the angel of God said and what sister Elizabeth said , then they are welcome. That may not mean they have reached perfection ,but it does mean the Spirit of God is working in them and is present.
My statement is totally true. Again, you address acting for ourselves ("avenge not yourselves") and ignore acting under the color of government authority.
You can repeat your mistaken beliefs till the cows come home, you have not explained how the last 5 names in Hebrews 11 were considered saints in the NT, with their common attribute "mighty in war." Nullifying the parts of scripture you reject is without merit.
And I follow all the teachings of Jesus, including those addressing individuals acting for themselves, the church and church leadership, and acting under the color of government authority.
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Scripture is my authority, not unreferenced assertions by the non-inspired. Peter indicated Cornelius should be baptized with water, because he had been immersed with the Holy Spirit.
He that fashioned a scourge to drive the money changers from the temple, and Who told his disciples of coming days when they should sell their cloaks and buy swords, did NOT teach against violence in any form.
OfLivingWaters
Active Member
True . Cornelius became a Christian while he was a soldier.
And stayed in the station that he first heard the call, because it is Christ who delivers His chosen out of all circumstances.
1 Corinthians 7:20-22
Live Your Calling
…20Each one should remain in the situation he was in when he was called. 21Were you a slave when you were called? Do not let it concern you, but if you can gain your freedom, take the opportunity. 22For he who was a slave when he was called by the Lord is the Lord’s freedman. Conversely, he who was a free man when he was called is Christ’s slave.…
I want to know, is one in the Armed Forces free or a slave? I am not talking about not getting paid either. I am talking about,do you have the freedom to decide if you want to do what you are told, or come and go within that service as you please?
No one has to answer that ,I already know the answer. My point is I never told anyone that they are not a Christian if they received their call while in the Armed Forces. Even within the Armed Forces Christ can use a man for His purpose as is demonstrated in Cornelius.
But for sure Christ will work all things out for your good, and that good will be to Christ's end not the government's, to which one in the armed Forces is enslaved to serve. Christ even in that can make a man a free agent for himself. That is what Paul is saying.
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