Christ's Return: Spiritual or Physical?

[robycop3]

So you actually believe Christ, in effect, said that "Some of you are going to be alive a week from now"? Really?

Look carefully at that verse. Mark 9:1:

"Truly I tell you, there are some standing here who will not taste death until they see the kingdom of God arrive with power."

Can you honestly tell me that happened at the Transfiguration? Or that Christ would make such an insipid, pointless remark that some of them would survive the week to see it? Please.

Not a bit of problem! ALL the disciples didn't see His transfiguration. So, eventually, the others tasted death without seeing such an event.

Now, HOW did they know they were seeing Moses & Elijah? And there's no record that Moe or Lige spoke to them. And they both will be in God's kingdom when it's manifested upon earth with Jesus as its King.

Now, can you HONESTLY tell me Jesus has returned & was seen by ALL?

 

[asterisktom]

You are using the very same arguments that had already been hashed out by the Jehovah's Witnesses. Did you learn this antichrist doctrine of "another jesus" from the Jehovah's Witnesses or from the Seventh Day Adventists?

Incredible. You are not really well versed in what those two heretical groups teach, then, do you? Putting you on ignore. Nothing to gain by talking to you.

 

[asterisktom]

Not a bit of problem! ALL the disciples didn't see His transfiguration. So, eventually, the others tasted death without seeing such an event.

The time period we are speaking of is a week. Not "eventually". And, if you really think it was the Transfiguration that He was referring to, it was a single event. Whether others died has nothing to do with the question.

Do you really not see the problem as stated?

 

[Heretic Hunter]

Incredible. You are not really well versed in what those two heretical groups teach, then, do you? Putting you on ignore. Nothing to gain by talking to you.

It's ok if you choose to place me on ignore. In the meantime, I will address this issue.

 

[Squire Robertsson]

Six Hour Warning
This thread will be closed sometime after 5 PM Pacific.

 

[Dave G]

What the Lord Jesus said is that most of the disciples would not live to see Christ coming in His kingdom, but there were some that would.see Him.

I still see it as John in Revelation... not Peter, James and John on the mount.

" For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.
28 Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom." ( Matthew 16:27-28 )

The only one I know of that fits this to a "T", is John's being revealed all these details at the end of his life on Patmos ( Revelation 1:9 ).


For now, that is where I stand unless someone shows me Scripture that states that other men, who were present with the Lord when He made His statement in Matthew 16:27-28, also were used by God to declare things regarding His second coming.

On the "mount of transfiguration" ( Matthew 17:1-8, Mark 9:2-8, Luke 9:28-36 ), I see Christ glorified, and the witnesses of it were Peter, James and John...but I see nothing being mentioned of His second coming.

I realize it is a technicality, but that is how I am persuaded to stand at this time.




May God, in His wisdom, show all of us many things through His word alone.

 

[Yeshua1]

I still see it as John in Revelation... not Peter, James and John on the mount.

" For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.
28 Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom." ( Matthew 16:27-28 )

The only one I know of that fits this to a "T", is John's being revealed all these details at the end of his life on Patmos ( Revelation 1:9 ).


For now, that is where I stand unless someone shows me Scripture that states that other men, who were present with the Lord when He made His statement in Matthew 16:27-28, also were used by God to declare things regarding His second coming.

On the "mount of transfiguration" ( Matthew 17:1-8, Mark 9:2-8, Luke 9:28-36 ), I see Christ glorified, and the witnesses of it were Peter, James and John...but I see nothing being mentioned of His second coming.

I realize it is a technicality, but that is how I am persuaded to stand at this time.




May God, in His wisdom, show all of us many things through His word alone.

When Jesus comes in his glory, the resurrection will happen, never had that yet!

 

[Heretic Hunter]

Incredible. You are not really well versed in what those two heretical groups teach, then, do you?

In a 3 part post, I can make the case, as promised, with a handful of examples of antichrist Watchtower writings, as they mock and slander Biblical Christianity.

Part 1 of 3:

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, & the Word was with God, and the Word was God. KJB 1611

The Watchtower Society re-wrote the Bible in 1950 to teach "another jesus":

John 1:1 In [the] beginning the Word was, and the Word was with God, and the Word was a god. N.W.T. (JW Rewritten Bible)

There are hundreds, if not thousands of references in Watchtower literature that teach their "other jesus" to be Michael the Archangel; not God, but instead "a god". But here's a snippet:

"Who Is Michael the Archangel?
THE spirit creature called Michael is not mentioned often in the Bible. However, when he is referred to, he is in action. In the book of Daniel, Michael is battling wicked angels; in the letter of Jude, he is disputing with Satan; and in Revelation, he is waging war with the Devil and his demons. By defending Jehovah’s rulership and fighting God’s enemies, Michael lives up to the meaning of his name—“Who Is Like God?” But who is Michael?
At times, individuals are known by more than one name. For example, the patriarch Jacob is also known as Israel, and the apostle Peter, as Simon. (Genesis 49:1, 2; Matthew 10:2) Likewise, the Bible indicates that Michael is another name for Jesus Christ, before and after his life on earth. Let us consider Scriptural reasons for drawing that conclusion.
Archangel. God’s Word refers to Michael “the archangel.” (Jude 9) This term means “chief angel.” Notice that Michael is called the archangel. This suggests that there is only one such angel. In fact, the term “archangel” occurs in the Bible only in the singular, never in the plural. Moreover, Jesus is linked with the office of archangel. Regarding the resurrected Lord Jesus Christ, 1 Thessalonians 4:16 states: “The Lord himself will descend from heaven with a commanding call, with an archangel’s voice.” Thus the voice of Jesus is described as being that of an archangel. This scripture therefore suggests that Jesus himself is the archangel Michael.
Army Leader. The Bible states that “Michael and his angels battled with the dragon . . . and its angels.” (Revelation 12:7) Thus, Michael is the Leader of an army of faithful angels. Revelation also describes Jesus as the Leader of an army of faithful angels. (Revelation 19:14-16) And the apostle Paul specifically mentions “the Lord Jesus” and “his powerful angels.” (2 Thessalonians 1:7) So the Bible speaks of both Michael and “his angels” and Jesus and “his angels.” (Matthew 13:41; 16:27; 24:31; 1 Peter 3:22) Since God’s Word nowhere indicates that there are two armies of faithful angels in heaven—one headed by Michael and one headed by Jesus—it is logical to conclude that Michael is none other than Jesus Christ in his heavenly role.
[Footnote]
More information showing that the name Michael applies to God’s Son is found in Volume 2, pages 393-4, of Insight on the Scriptures, published by Jehovah’s Witnesses.
What Does The Bible Teach? Page 218 (WTBTS Publication).

The Watchtower also blasphemously teaches their "other jesus" to be "Abaddon/Apollyon" which is another name for Satan:

"20 Rather than announce the incoming Kingdom of God, Christendom’s clergy have chosen to remain with Satan’s world. They want no part with the locust band and their King, concerning whom John now observes: “They have over them a king, the angel of the abyss. In Hebrew his name is Abaddon [meaning “Destruction”], but in Greek he has the name Apollyon [meaning “Destroyer”].” (Revelation 9:11) As “angel of the abyss” and “Destroyer,” Jesus had truly released a plaguing woe on Christendom. But more is to follow!" - Revelation, It's Great Climax Is At Hand! Chapter 22 Page 142 Paragraph 20.

"[Footnotes]
...
This is supported by the use of Hebrew names in other visions; Jesus is given the Hebrew name “Abaddon” (meaning “Destruction”) and executes judgment at the place “called in Hebrew Har–Magedon.”—Revelation 9:11; 16:16." Revelation, It's Great Climax Is At Hand! Chapter 29 Page 205 Footnotes.

2 of 3 Invisible Return Dates of the Watchower's "other jesus":

" Our Lord, the oppointed King, is now present, since October 1874, A.D. according to the testimony of the prophets, to those that have ears to hear it..." - WT 07/15/1905 pg 3576
1897 "Our Lord the appointed King, is now present since October 1874" - Studies In The Scriptures. Vol. 4. pg 621

Date later changed to 1914:

"“As one reads through The Watchtower, what word best describes the feeling running through all its articles? Perhaps the word is ‘urgency.’ Jehovah’s Witnesses believe that Christ returned in 1914 and is now reigning, though invisibly; that we are living at 5 minutes of twelve and the final culmination of history is visibly shaping up; that it is now or never—choose God and partake of the resurrection of the righteous; deny Him and your existence will be blacked out and annihilated." - WT 09-01-1953 Page 526

This just one sample of dozens of Watchtower false prophesies: (All can be provided upon request):

1917 "Also, in the year 1918, when God destroys the churches wholesale and the church members by million, it shall be that any that escape shall come to the works of Pastor Russell to learn the meaning of the downfall of Christianity." - The Finished Mystery, 1917 edition, pg. 485

 

[Yeshua1]

In a 2 part post, I can make the case, as promised, with a handful of examples of antichrist Watchtower writings, as they mock and slander Biblical Christianity.

Part 1 of 2:

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, & the Word was with God, and the Word was God. KJB 1611

The Watchtower Society re-wrote the Bible in 1950 to teach "another jesus":

John 1:1 In [the] beginning the Word was, and the Word was with God, and the Word was a god. N.W.T. (JW Rewritten Bible)

There are hundreds, if not thousands of references in Watchtower literature that teach their "other jesus" to be Michael the Archangel; not God, but instead "a god". But here's a snippet:

"Who Is Michael the Archangel?
THE spirit creature called Michael is not mentioned often in the Bible. However, when he is referred to, he is in action. In the book of Daniel, Michael is battling wicked angels; in the letter of Jude, he is disputing with Satan; and in Revelation, he is waging war with the Devil and his demons. By defending Jehovah’s rulership and fighting God’s enemies, Michael lives up to the meaning of his name—“Who Is Like God?” But who is Michael?
At times, individuals are known by more than one name. For example, the patriarch Jacob is also known as Israel, and the apostle Peter, as Simon. (Genesis 49:1, 2; Matthew 10:2) Likewise, the Bible indicates that Michael is another name for Jesus Christ, before and after his life on earth. Let us consider Scriptural reasons for drawing that conclusion.
Archangel. God’s Word refers to Michael “the archangel.” (Jude 9) This term means “chief angel.” Notice that Michael is called the archangel. This suggests that there is only one such angel. In fact, the term “archangel” occurs in the Bible only in the singular, never in the plural. Moreover, Jesus is linked with the office of archangel. Regarding the resurrected Lord Jesus Christ, 1 Thessalonians 4:16 states: “The Lord himself will descend from heaven with a commanding call, with an archangel’s voice.” Thus the voice of Jesus is described as being that of an archangel. This scripture therefore suggests that Jesus himself is the archangel Michael.
Army Leader. The Bible states that “Michael and his angels battled with the dragon . . . and its angels.” (Revelation 12:7) Thus, Michael is the Leader of an army of faithful angels. Revelation also describes Jesus as the Leader of an army of faithful angels. (Revelation 19:14-16) And the apostle Paul specifically mentions “the Lord Jesus” and “his powerful angels.” (2 Thessalonians 1:7) So the Bible speaks of both Michael and “his angels” and Jesus and “his angels.” (Matthew 13:41; 16:27; 24:31; 1 Peter 3:22) Since God’s Word nowhere indicates that there are two armies of faithful angels in heaven—one headed by Michael and one headed by Jesus—it is logical to conclude that Michael is none other than Jesus Christ in his heavenly role.
[Footnote]
More information showing that the name Michael applies to God’s Son is found in Volume 2, pages 393-4, of Insight on the Scriptures, published by Jehovah’s Witnesses.
What Does The Bible Teach? Page 218 (WTBTS Publication).

The Watchtower also blasphemously teaches their "other jesus" to be "Abaddon/Apollyon" which is another name for Satan:

"20 Rather than announce the incoming Kingdom of God, Christendom’s clergy have chosen to remain with Satan’s world. They want no part with the locust band and their King, concerning whom John now observes: “They have over them a king, the angel of the abyss. In Hebrew his name is Abaddon [meaning “Destruction”], but in Greek he has the name Apollyon [meaning “Destroyer”].” (Revelation 9:11) As “angel of the abyss” and “Destroyer,” Jesus had truly released a plaguing woe on Christendom. But more is to follow!" - Revelation, It's Great Climax Is At Hand! Chapter 22 Page 142 Paragraph 20.

"[Footnotes]
...
This is supported by the use of Hebrew names in other visions; Jesus is given the Hebrew name “Abaddon” (meaning “Destruction”) and executes judgment at the place “called in Hebrew Har–Magedon.”—Revelation 9:11; 16:16." Revelation, It's Great Climax Is At Hand! Chapter 29 Page 205 Footnotes.

2 of 3 Invisible Return Dates of the Watchower's "other jesus":

" Our Lord, the oppointed King, is now present, since October 1874, A.D. according to the testimony of the prophets, to those that have ears to hear it..." - WT 07/15/1905 pg 3576
1897 "Our Lord the appointed King, is now present since October 1874" - Studies In The Scriptures. Vol. 4. pg 621

Date later changed to 1914:

"“As one reads through The Watchtower, what word best describes the feeling running through all its articles? Perhaps the word is ‘urgency.’ Jehovah’s Witnesses believe that Christ returned in 1914 and is now reigning, though invisibly; that we are living at 5 minutes of twelve and the final culmination of history is visibly shaping up; that it is now or never—choose God and partake of the resurrection of the righteous; deny Him and your existence will be blacked out and annihilated." - WT 09-01-1953 Page 526

This just one sample of dozens of Watchtower false prophesies: (All can be provided upon request):

1917 "Also, in the year 1918, when God destroys the churches wholesale and the church members by million, it shall be that any that escape shall come to the works of Pastor Russell to learn the meaning of the downfall of Christianity." - The Finished Mystery, 1917 edition, pg. 485

BOTH the pretierists and the JW see an invisible second coming event already happened!

 

[Heretic Hunter]

Incredible. You are not really well versed in what those two heretical groups teach, then, do you?

Part 2 of 3:

The W.T.B.T.S. denies the bodily ressurection of the Lord Jesus Christ and His Deity:

"The Fleshly Body of Jesus
WHEN Jesus was on earth was he really fully a human creature? Was he altogether a man? or was he an incarnation, part man and part spirit, divinity clothed upon with a fleshly body and appearing to be human, but yet partly spiritual, divine?
The Scriptures abound with evidence that Jesus was God’s high priest and underwent temptations such as humans are susceptible to. (Matt. 4:1-11; Heb. 2:17, 18) Does it not seem unreasonable that Christ Jesus would practice deception or would appear to be something that he really was not? Would it not be deception for the Son of God in the flesh to claim to be suffering all the temptations and undergoing all the hardships to prove himself to be a worthy high priest for mankind and really not be a man, but be above the possibilities of human temptation and sin?
Jesus was on earth to prove his blameless integrity, to be the perfect answer to Satan’s challenge that Jehovah God could not put men on the earth who would be faithful to him under the Devil’s assaults. If he was not a man, would he not have failed to answer Satan’s challenge? Jesus, God’s only-begotten Son, the Word, became flesh. The apostle John says: “So the Word became flesh.” (John 1:14, NW) Yes, he was no incarnation or materialization of a spirit person to a fleshly body parading as a man during his 33 1⁄2-year residence on earth in the flesh. He was a perfect man, having a perfect human body of flesh and blood, a perfect human organism.

THE MIRACLE OF JESUS’ HUMANITY
How, then, was it accomplished that this One, with a past of untold millions of years in the heavens, became a human and was lowered to this position to fulfill God’s purposes? Jehovah God, by his almighty power, was able to take the personality of his only-begotten Son, his life pattern, with its tested qualities of integrity over millions of years of faithful service, its complete and whole-hearted devotion to Jehovah God, and put this personality within the reproductive powers of the tiny bundle of live energy that he inserted into the womb of the virgin Mary. Thus the child Jesus was born with all the marvelous qualities of integrity in him just as a child inherits qualities from his father. Also, according to God’s laws governing inheritance Jesus received from his mother Mary certain features of body and certain of Mary’s faithful and loving characteristics. But having a perfect Father as his life source, he did not inherit imperfection from his imperfect mother Mary. He was not another personality or a different person, but he was the only-begotten Son and was able to identify himself later as such. By process of natural growth Jesus matured: “And the young child continued growing and getting strong, being filled with wisdom, and God’s favor continued upon him.”—Luke 2:40, NW.
The fact that Jesus was not an incarnation or a materialization is proved by the cases where his body tired and was refreshed by rest and food. (Mark 4:38; 6:30-33; Luke 8:23; John 4:6) This shows that he understood what it meant to be tired, that he had merely a human body with its capacities and limitations as designed by God, yet being perfect and able to live forever just as Adam and Eve’s bodies could have existed forever had they remained faithful.
When Jesus was baptized at the age of thirty he was a perfect man, the exact equivalent of Adam, who was perfect in Eden. Jehovah accepted Jesus’ dedication and put upon him the obligation by which Jesus would sacrifice his perfect human life as a ransom for the sins of all mankind. Now God would not accept a sacrifice that had any blemish or fault in it, but only that which was perfect. (Ex. 12:5; Deut. 15:21; 1 Pet. 1:19; Matt. 3:17) Therefore we can see that the thirty-year-old Jesus, although he ate the food that was eaten by the people of his day, was not deteriorated in body by it, but remained perfect.
At the time that he was baptized by John in Jordan the heavens were opened to him, meaning that he received an understanding of things in the heavens. At this time, then, and during his forty-day temptation and training period in the wilderness, it was recalled to him that he had had prehuman existence with the Father. Now, merged with his personality was all the remembrance of his past life, and his personality was greatly enriched and strengthened by having these things recalled to him.
JESUS’ FLESHLY BODY DISSOLVED
What happened to the perfect fleshly body of Jesus after his death? Was it preserved so that in time men will look upon it in worship? or does Jesus still have this fleshly body in the heavens, “spiritualized” so that it can be seen and worshiped? Neither. The Scriptures answer: It was disposed of by Jehovah God, dissolved into its constituent elements or atoms.
Jesus was the antitype foreshadowed by Moses, the great mediator and leader of the congregation of Israel. God himself disposed of Moses’ body by burial, and “no man knoweth of his sepulchre”. (Deut. 34:5, 6) Later, one of the Christian writers says that Michael had a dispute with the Devil over the body of Moses. (Jude 9) The Devil desired to get the body of Moses the great leader and to use it as an object of worship to draw the Israelites away from their true invisible Commander and Leader, Jehovah God. With stronger desire the Devil wanted to obtain the fleshly body of Jesus after his death to induce some to worship it and use it for indecent false religious purposes, thus reproaching Jehovah God. But Jehovah thwarted the Devil’s purpose in both cases by disposing of the bodies of these two faithful men.
Moses’ body returned to the dust by process of decay, as all human bodies do, but not so in Jesus’ case, for it is written: “For thou wilt not leave my soul to Sheol; neither wilt thou suffer thy holy one to see corruption.” (Ps. 16:10, AS; Acts 2:31) So God caused Jesus’ body to disappear, but not corrupt, meaning that it was dissolved, disintegrated back into the elements from which all human bodies are made.—John 20:1-13. - Watchtower 09-01-1953 Page 517

 

[Heretic Hunter]

Incredible. You are not really well versed in what those two heretical groups teach, then, do you?

Part 3 of 3:

The W.T.B.T.S. denies the bodily ressurection of the Lord Jesus Christ and His Deity:

JESUS RESURRECTED WITH SPIRIT ORGANISM
The resurrected Jesus was given a spirit body: “He being put to death in the flesh, but being made alive in the spirit.” (1 Pet. 3:18, NW) “Whom not one of men has seen or can see.” (1 Tim. 6:16, NW) Paul merely caught a glimpse of the glory of Jesus’ spirit body and was blinded. (1 Cor. 15:8; Acts 9:17, 18) At the resurrection of his faithful followers in whom God has cultivated heavenly hopes they will be given, not fleshly, but glorious spirit bodies. We all know what a fleshly body is like. But John says: “Beloved ones, now we are children of God, but as yet it has not been made manifest what we shall be. We do know that whenever he is made manifest we shall be like him, because we shall see him just as he is.”—1 John 3:2, NW.
When Jesus was on earth he was said to be “lower than the angels”. Man is lower than angels. Certainly one who is in the flesh is lower than one who is in the spirit. God often contrasts flesh and spirit. (Ps. 8:4, 5; Heb. 2:9; Isa. 31:3) Could you believe that Jesus Christ, the majestic King of the new world, made higher than all other creation, would remain in a body of flesh? He would be inferior to a spirit and far too limited to accomplish the marvelous things required of such King, among them the destroying of the mighty spirit person Satan the Devil.
A human body requires earthly elements for its continued existence. It is made for the earth and must subsist upon the things produced from the earth. (1 Cor. 15:40, 47; Isa. 45:12, 18) God does not violate his own laws that he has established to govern natural things. Therefore he would not take a human body out of its proper habitation and transfer it to the heavens, the realm of spirit persons.

HIS POST-RESURRECTION APPEARANCES
What about the bodies in which Jesus appeared after his resurrection? He manifested himself on one occasion in a body that had wounds into which Thomas was able to place his hands to prove that Jesus was the same person, resurrected, whom Thomas had known as the Master. But if Jesus took his human body to heaven to keep these wounds forever, this would be contrary to God’s laws governing fleshly bodies and their ability to repair themselves. Moreover, if Jesus sacrificed his human body for the life of the world and then took it back, retaining it for himself, he could not offer such merit before God in behalf of others. The ransom would be taken back, leaving mankind still in their sins.
So these bodies that Jesus appeared in after his resurrection were materialized bodies. Similar instances occurred in ancient times, such as when the three men visited and ate with Abraham, and those appearing to Lot, in each case being angels who materialized in the form of men. Jesus’ materialized bodies were signs, evidences to eyewitnesses proving he had been resurrected according to the promise of Jehovah God.—Gen. 18:1-22; 19:1-16; John 20:29-31.
The proofs that these were bodies materialized for the occasion are many. Mary, when she first saw Jesus after his resurrection, did not recognize him, thinking that he must be the gardener. On the road to Emmaus, he was recognized by his manners and actions, not by his facial features. (John 20:14-16; Luke 24:13-32; Mark 16:12) When he materialized a body with wound marks to convince the doubtful Thomas, Jesus appeared in a room with locked doors. (John 20:26-28) This shows that he could materialize and dematerialize a body instantaneously. Scientists claim the ability to make material substance out of pure energy. How easy for the power of the resurrected Jesus, then, to materialize a body!
Now about the scripture that says: “While they were speaking of these things he himself stood in their midst and said to them: ‘May you have peace.’ But they were terrified, and because they became frightened they were imagining they beheld a spirit. So he said to them: ‘Why are you troubled, and why is it doubts come up in your hearts? See my hands and my feet, that it is I myself; feel me and see, because a spirit does not have flesh and bones just as you behold that I have.’” (Luke 24:36-39, NW) Surely, some will contend, this shows that he was not a spirit, but a “spiritualized” fleshly body. No, but these men thought that they saw a vision, or a manifestation to them such as the manifestation of the angel to Daniel, which caused him to fall down with fear.—Dan. 10:4-9.
Since flesh and blood cannot inherit God’s kingdom, Jesus could not go to heaven with a fleshly body. “Ah,” some will argue, “Jesus did not here say he was flesh and blood, but flesh and bones.” But would it have been reasonable for Jesus to say, ‘See, I am flesh and blood,’ when no blood was running from his body? But it was easily evident to the senses of sight and touch that he had flesh and bones.
So then, those who refuse to recognize the signs of Jesus’ invisible presence because of looking for his coming in a body of flesh are mistaken. So also those who try to worship him today as the baby Jesus, in the face of the evidence that he grew to human manhood, died and was resurrected a mighty spirit person. It is not the baby Jesus that God commanded all to worship, nor the fleshly body, but Christ Jesus the glorified heavenly King of the new world." - Watchtower 09-01-1953 Page 517

 

[Heretic Hunter]

BOTH the pretierists and the JW see an invisible second coming event already happened!

I had to break down the post into 3 parts. The arguements that have been put forth by the Author of this thread match the Watchtower doctrine to the letter. There are many, many, many more quotes by the Watchtower Society, but too much to fit into a single post, even with just a few examples of their heresies. But with the samples that I provided, it is not difficult to see how the Watchtower Society wrested the scriptures to purport their antichrist doctrines, but we can also see how the leaven has spread!

 

[Heretic Hunter]

Along with the other writings of the Watchtower Society, this is a lie from the pits of hell! There is no such thing anywhere in The Holy Bible that supports this heresy. It cannot even be found in the Watchtower's rewritten N.W.T. It's a lie. It's a lie that has deceived so many people by the millions into following the false prophet.

"The Scriptures answer: It was disposed of by Jehovah God, dissolved into its constituent elements or atoms." - Watchtower 09-01-1953 Page 517

Jesus Christ is God in the flesh! I want to shout this from the housetop for the entire to hear! JESUS CHRIST IS GOD!

There are two points that I want to address here. The first is that Paul was called to be an Apostle by The Lord Jesus Christ after His ascension to heaven. The record of this is contained in the Book of the Acts of the Apostles.

The second point is that each of these verses of Scripture, written by Apostle Paul by inspiration of The Holy Spirit was well after Apostle Paul's calling by The Lord to be the Apostle to the Gentiles.


Col 2:8 Beware lest any man spoile you through Philosophie and vaine deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ:


Col 2:9 For in him dwelleth all the fulnesse of the Godhead bodily.


1Tim 3:16 And without controuersie, great is the mysterie of godlinesse: God was manifest in the flesh, iustified in the Spirit, seene of Angels, preached vnto the Gentiles, beleeued on in the world, receiued vp into glory.


The Lamb still bares the holes and scars of the print of the nails in His Holy Hands! Oh! Just to be able to tough His Holy Hands! He is worthy of our worship!


Rev 5:1 And I saw in ye right hand of him that sate on the Throne, a booke written within, & on the backeside, sealed with seuen seales.
Rev 5:2 And I saw a strong Angel proclaiming with a loude voice; Who is worthy to open the booke, and to loose the seales thereof?
Rev 5:3 And no man in heauen, nor in earth, neither vnder the earth, was able to open the booke, neither to looke thereon.
Rev 5:4 And I wept much, because no man was found worthy to open, and to reade the booke, neither to looke thereon.
Rev 5:5 And one of the Elders saith vnto me, Weepe not: beholde, the Lion of the tribe of Iuda, the roote of Dauid, hath preuailed to open the booke, and to loose the seuen seales thereof.
Rev 5:6 And I beheld, and loe, in the middest of the Throne, and of the foure beastes, and in the midst of the Elders stood a Lambe as it had beene slaine, hauing seuen hornes and seuen eyes, which are the seuen Spirits of God, sent foorth into all the earth.
Rev 5:7 And he came, and tooke the booke out of the right hand of him that sate vpon the Throne.
Rev 5:8 And when he had taken the booke, the foure Beasts, and foure and twenty Elders fel down before the Lambe, hauing euery one of them harps, and golden vials full of odours, which are the prayers of Saints.
Rev 5:9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the Booke, and to open the seales thereof: for thou wast slaine, and hast redeemed vs to God by thy blood, out of euery kinred, and tongue, and people, and nation:
Rev 5:10 And hast made vs vnto our God Kings and Priests, and we shall reigne on the earth.
Rev 5:11 And I beheld, and I heard the voyce of many Angels, round about the Throne, and the beasts and the Elders, and the number of them was ten thousand times tenne thousand, and thousands of thousands,
Rev 5:12 Saying with a lowd voice, Worthy is the Lambe that was slaine, to receiue power, and riches, and wisedome, and strength, and honour, and glory, and blessing.
Rev 5:13 And euery creature which is in heauen, and on the earth, and vnder the earth, and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, heard I, saying, Blessing, honour, glory, and power bee vnto him that sitteth vpon the Throne, and vnto the Lambe for euer and euer.
Rev 5:14 And the foure beasts said, Amen. And the foure and twenty Elders fell downe and worshipped him that liueth for euer and euer.

 

[Martin Marprelate]

On the "mount of transfiguration" ( Matthew 17:1-8, Mark 9:2-8, Luke 9:28-36 ), I see Christ glorified, and the witnesses of it were Peter, James and John...but I see nothing being mentioned of His second coming.

I realize it is a technicality, but that is how I am persuaded to stand at this time.

2 Peter 1:16-17 speaks of the 'power,' 'coming,' honour' and 'glory' of Christ in His Transfiguration. The three disciples were given, as it were, a preview of the returning Christ. The other disciples would taste death without seeing this. That seems to me to be the only consistent way of interpreting the passage, especially since all thtree accounts of the Transfiguration follow immediately after the prophecy of it..

May God, in His wisdom, show all of us many things through His word alone.

Amen!

 

[asterisktom]

BOTH the pretierists and the JW see an invisible second coming event already happened!

I don't believe it was an invisible coming.

 

[asterisktom]

2 Peter 1:16-17 speaks of the 'power,' 'coming,' honour' and 'glory' of Christ in His Transfiguration. The three disciples were given, as it were, a preview of the returning Christ. The other disciples would taste death without seeing this. That seems to me to be the only consistent way of interpreting the passage, especially since all thtree accounts of the Transfiguration follow immediately after the prophecy of it..

Amen!

But this does not take into account the nearest context, the end of Mark 8 and next vs. in Mark 9.

"38. Whosoever therefore shall be ashamed of me and of my words in this adulterous and sinful generation; of him also shall the Son of man be ashamed, when he comes in the glory of his Father with the holy angels.

1 And he said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That there be some of those that stand here, who shall not taste of death, till they have seen the kingdom of God come with power."

When did He come "in the glory of his Father with the holy angels"?

For further clarity I suggest we look at all the other similar passages, Christ coming with the angels.

This did not happen at the Transfiguration. And - once again - it is silly in the extreme that Christ would say this about some not dying in a week's time before they see this.

How is it that you would not blush to imagine Christ meaning that in order to safeguard your cherished tradition?

 

[Squire Robertsson]

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