Church Conflict: I was called an arrogant Idiot, and to attend a Calvinist Church!

[Thousand Hills]

You air out a lot of laundry about your church experience here. Why is that?

I'm wondering if he shouldn't put it all on paper and submit it to TBN, would be great material for a "Christian" Soap Opera

 

[abcgrad94]

That surely was NOT subtle... :smilewinkgrin:

It's Revmitch's fault. He posted the "Men's Rules" in the fellowship/humor area and his post indicated that subtle hints do not work on men.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Evan......let your wife stay where she is but you really need to get outa there. Go to your calvy church and grow in the lord....you will be happier.

 

[evangelist6589]

Evan......let your wife stay where she is but you really need to get outa there. Go to your calvy church and grow in the lord....you will be happier.

Have you read my earlier posts?

 

[JamesL]

Evan......let your wife stay where she is but you really need to get outa there. Go to your calvy church and grow in the lord....you will be happier.

Are we supposed to seek to be happier? Or seek what God wills for us? They can be mutually exclusive.

If he goes somewhere God doesn't want him, he won't grow even if he's happier, or even if he agrees with their doctrine.


It seems that everyone who's giving him advice is looking at externals, trying to get him to be led by the flesh - "Get outa there" or even "buckle down, suck it up, stop whining"

Nobody ever grew in the Lord by working in the flesh. We are transformed by a renewing of the mind, not by buckling down or by running away to somewhere more comfortable

He's mentioned over and over the fact that he has a wife at that church. So he gets out of there, and leaves his wife in the dust to be stagnated for the rest of her life? Leave her to her own devices, to flounder on her own?

People are acting like his wife is just a piece of baggage, an old ball and chain. Just leave that old bag to wallow in her own mire, right?

But what if Christ left HIS bride, His old bag, to wallow in her own mire? That would leave us all in pitiful shape.


What most here also aren't considering is that Evangelist believes he is called to be a street preacher. How many reports does he plaster here? Anybody else here got the cahonies to go preach a sermon on a street corner? Seems that God has John out there doing something. If nothing else, leaving those passersby without any excuse. They've all ignored him, which God does notice.


But go look at a recent thread he's started, where he talks about laying down that pitiful Way of the Master approach, and laying down his preaching on election. Take a good, honest look at what he conveyed there.

He was actually able to engage with several people, whereas his previous methods had him totally alienated form the crowds


Here's something that John probably has never considered. His approach is a total put-off in the church. People who have been in church their whole lives can't connect with what he's trying to convey with election, depravity, blah blah blah.

How much less is a city full of atheists, agnostics, humanists, etc going to connect?

In this church, God has paved a way for John to be accepted into a group who doesn't even connect with his doctrine or approach. And he now has every opportunity for the Holy Spirit to renew his mind, to where he can learn to engage with others who do not agree.

He's trying to let God have His way, by trying to focus on where there is agreement so that he can fellowship in peace with them. And it's overflowing into his street ministry.

How many people were belittling his street preaching only four months ago, accusing him of yelling at people form the corner? Quite fair criticism, in my opinion. But now people are belittling him for embracing the opportunity to be in a church where he's learning some valuable relational skills

Which is it? People need to make up their minds. Is he the fool for preaching what he's comfortable with, or is he the fool for learning how to better interact with people?


Another reason I don't believe he's there by random chance. I believe he's there because his wife needs him there. He's already gone on the weekends, experiencing his brand of Christianity on the street corners. What if he leaves her Sunday mornings also, to go experience his brand of Christianity with the Calvinists?

When will the ever have a corporate Christian experience together if he leaves here there in the dust?

Connect the dots.......him, his wife, the church, the street preaching, the people on the streets

God has it all in His plans, not just whether or not John agrees with a set of doctrine. His calling as a street preacher needs some relational polishing, and he's learning it - right there where his wife is

 

[evangelist6589]

Amen and very accurate. While I admire the WOTM I must learn to adapt to other approaches and what I did yesterday and at the grocery store saturday and as a result I was able to have some long chats with people, which is something I have not had much success with the law approach.

The humanist do not believe in the Bible & they reject the 10 commandments so I am trying to be different and RC Sproul has given me some new ideas on using logic and reason.

Yes you are correct people in the church do not like the Way of the Master or Calvinism and no doubt people have probably left the SS because of my many reports of me out witnessing. But next week I will have a different story to tell.

Are we supposed to seek to be happier? Or seek what God wills for us? They can be mutually exclusive.

If he goes somewhere God doesn't want him, he won't grow even if he's happier, or even if he agrees with their doctrine.


It seems that everyone who's giving him advice is looking at externals, trying to get him to be led by the flesh - "Get outa there" or even "buckle down, suck it up, stop whining"

Nobody ever grew in the Lord by working in the flesh. We are transformed by a renewing of the mind, not by buckling down or by running away to somewhere more comfortable

He's mentioned over and over the fact that he has a wife at that church. So he gets out of there, and leaves his wife in the dust to be stagnated for the rest of her life? Leave her to her own devices, to flounder on her own?

People are acting like his wife is just a piece of baggage, an old ball and chain. Just leave that old bag to wallow in her own mire, right?

But what if Christ left HIS bride, His old bag, to wallow in her own mire? That would leave us all in pitiful shape.


What most here also aren't considering is that Evangelist believes he is called to be a street preacher. How many reports does he plaster here? Anybody else here got the cahonies to go preach a sermon on a street corner? Seems that God has John out there doing something. If nothing else, leaving those passersby without any excuse. They've all ignored him, which God does notice.


But go look at a recent thread he's started, where he talks about laying down that pitiful Way of the Master approach, and laying down his preaching on election. Take a good, honest look at what he conveyed there.

He was actually able to engage with several people, whereas his previous methods had him totally alienated form the crowds


Here's something that John probably has never considered. His approach is a total put-off in the church. People who have been in church their whole lives can't connect with what he's trying to convey with election, depravity, blah blah blah.

How much less is a city full of atheists, agnostics, humanists, etc going to connect?

In this church, God has paved a way for John to be accepted into a group who doesn't even connect with his doctrine or approach. And he now has every opportunity for the Holy Spirit to renew his mind, to where he can learn to engage with others who do not agree.

He's trying to let God have His way, by trying to focus on where there is agreement so that he can fellowship in peace with them. And it's overflowing into his street ministry.

How many people were belittling his street preaching only four months ago, accusing him of yelling at people form the corner? Quite fair criticism, in my opinion. But now people are belittling him for embracing the opportunity to be in a church where he's learning some valuable relational skills

Which is it? People need to make up their minds. Is he the fool for preaching what he's comfortable with, or is he the fool for learning how to better interact with people?


Another reason I don't believe he's there by random chance. I believe he's there because his wife needs him there. He's already gone on the weekends, experiencing his brand of Christianity on the street corners. What if he leaves her Sunday mornings also, to go experience his brand of Christianity with the Calvinists?

When will the ever have a corporate Christian experience together if he leaves here there in the dust?

Connect the dots.......him, his wife, the church, the street preaching, the people on the streets

God has it all in His plans, not just whether or not John agrees with a set of doctrine. His calling as a street preacher needs some relational polishing, and he's learning it - right there where his wife is

 

[JamesL]

Amen and very accurate. While I admire the WOTM I must learn to adapt to other approaches and what I did yesterday and at the grocery store saturday and as a result I was able to have some long chats with people, which is something I have not had much success with the law approach.

The humanist do not believe in the Bible & they reject the 10 commandments so I am trying to be different and RC Sproul has given me some new ideas on using logic and reason.

Yes you are correct people in the church do not like the Way of the Master or Calvinism and no doubt people have probably left the SS because of my many reports of me out witnessing. But next week I will have a different story to tell.

Brother, don't put the pressure on yourself to have instant change. The Holy Spirit changes us, and sometimes it's a long work

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Are we supposed to seek to be happier? Or seek what God wills for us? They can be mutually exclusive.

If he goes somewhere God doesn't want him, he won't grow even if he's happier, or even if he agrees with their doctrine.


It seems that everyone who's giving him advice is looking at externals, trying to get him to be led by the flesh - "Get outa there" or even "buckle down, suck it up, stop whining"

Nobody ever grew in the Lord by working in the flesh. We are transformed by a renewing of the mind, not by buckling down or by running away to somewhere more comfortable

He's mentioned over and over the fact that he has a wife at that church. So he gets out of there, and leaves his wife in the dust to be stagnated for the rest of her life? Leave her to her own devices, to flounder on her own?

People are acting like his wife is just a piece of baggage, an old ball and chain. Just leave that old bag to wallow in her own mire, right?

But what if Christ left HIS bride, His old bag, to wallow in her own mire? That would leave us all in pitiful shape.


What most here also aren't considering is that Evangelist believes he is called to be a street preacher. How many reports does he plaster here? Anybody else here got the cahonies to go preach a sermon on a street corner? Seems that God has John out there doing something. If nothing else, leaving those passersby without any excuse. They've all ignored him, which God does notice.


But go look at a recent thread he's started, where he talks about laying down that pitiful Way of the Master approach, and laying down his preaching on election. Take a good, honest look at what he conveyed there.

He was actually able to engage with several people, whereas his previous methods had him totally alienated form the crowds


Here's something that John probably has never considered. His approach is a total put-off in the church. People who have been in church their whole lives can't connect with what he's trying to convey with election, depravity, blah blah blah.

How much less is a city full of atheists, agnostics, humanists, etc going to connect?

In this church, God has paved a way for John to be accepted into a group who doesn't even connect with his doctrine or approach. And he now has every opportunity for the Holy Spirit to renew his mind, to where he can learn to engage with others who do not agree.

He's trying to let God have His way, by trying to focus on where there is agreement so that he can fellowship in peace with them. And it's overflowing into his street ministry.

How many people were belittling his street preaching only four months ago, accusing him of yelling at people form the corner? Quite fair criticism, in my opinion. But now people are belittling him for embracing the opportunity to be in a church where he's learning some valuable relational skills

Which is it? People need to make up their minds. Is he the fool for preaching what he's comfortable with, or is he the fool for learning how to better interact with people?


Another reason I don't believe he's there by random chance. I believe he's there because his wife needs him there. He's already gone on the weekends, experiencing his brand of Christianity on the street corners. What if he leaves her Sunday mornings also, to go experience his brand of Christianity with the Calvinists?

When will the ever have a corporate Christian experience together if he leaves here there in the dust?

Connect the dots.......him, his wife, the church, the street preaching, the people on the streets

God has it all in His plans, not just whether or not John agrees with a set of doctrine. His calling as a street preacher needs some relational polishing, and he's learning it - right there where his wife is

No he is not. He has repeatedly sited that this church does not provide him meat.....all he gets is pablum. He has also said his wife is comfortable with that type of church. Are you an advocate of meritocracy because I think this guy needs much more......and that's what I'm getting outa these posts. I personally believe you gotta test yourself every day.....otherwise its just a wasted day......which turns into a wasted life. And that's not what God put you here for.

And if these Calvinists test him and stretch him and stimulate him to be better then do not stagnate with the pathetic thing your wife holds too. Anyway she should want spiritual growth for him and herself. Pretty soon EVANGELIST ....NO THE TIME IS NOW. Otherwise they will be coming round with the horse cart yelling......."Bring out your dead" and you will be thrown on the cart with the other comfortable losers

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

In fact.....Evangelist ......every time you go on another tirade about that church, that's what I am going to tell you......."BRING OUT YOUR DEAD, BRING OUT YOUR DEAD!"

 

[Winman]

Boy, this is a difficult problem. I really don't know what to tell Evan except to pray, pray, pray about what God would have him do.

 

[RLBosley]

Yikes! Not a good situation. IMO, the best thing to do first is pray and confirm if this is or is not where you ought to be. If it is not, and i suspect it isn't, you need to respectfully tell the pastor(s) that you would feel better and more at home elsewhere. Clearly you are not content being there at all and you seem to be causing division whether you mean to or not.

If you do feel the need to move, your wife needs to submit to your leadership. I'm not saying that you just boss her around, but after discussion and everything considered she needs to let you make the final decision and submit herself to it.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Lord, I dont get it. I go through the streets & I talk to people all day long. I like people when they dont stress over things & this Way of the Master stuff is just viewed as a "Way to manipulate people" and play the "Shame & Blame Game" & Im not into it. All I ever do is remind people that God is somehow working in their lives.....simple right. "How is God working in your life today?" Ask, dont force. People will eventually flock to the one that is the mensch (A mensch is a someone to admire and emulate, someone of noble character. The key to being "a real mensch" is nothing less than character, rectitude, dignity) After that, then they want to know why you have Peace & Love in your heart. Galatians 5:22-23

22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law.

Then you open up with scripture. Say this & then shut up & smile. They will get the idea & want that for themselves. Couldn't hurt!

 

[salzer mtn]

Evan when a person learns the doctrines of grace it is not a over night presto thing. My wife was a congregational Methodist when we were married forty three years ago. Her dad was a preacher and preached the second working of grace and sanctification of the flesh. I was saved shortly before we were married and both of us believed in falling from grace. God began to deal with me first and I started submitting to the doctrines of grace little by little. First came the belief of eternal salvation for me but my wife would not have it at all. Through much prayer and leading her through scripture she accepted the truth and we joined a Baptist church. But God was not finished, I began to read Spurgeon sermons in 1980 and the Lord opened up a new world to me. Again my wife would not have it at first, but today we both believe the same gospel. Will God lead me into deeper truth's, I hope so. I don't never want to stop learning.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

BTW John, you are an arrogant idiot........how dare you set the stage to actually get people to think and question and maybe do some research into their comfortable belief system! By now, you should know better.:laugh:

 

[evangelist6589]

BTW John, you are an arrogant idiot........how dare you set the stage to actually get people to think and question and maybe do some research into their comfortable belief system! By now, you should know better.:laugh:

Another thing I failed to mention. This brother easily makes 3 times my salary and has been a member for years. He also helps in key ways in the church. Politics do play a part in this. It's one reason why I prefer doing street evangelism alone. No motive to get them in my church I just want to see God bring his elect to faith and use me. They may not go to my church but the Calvary Chapel down the road ,etc..

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Another thing I failed to mention. This brother easily makes 3 times my salary and has been a member for years. He also helps in key ways in the church. Politics do play a part in this. It's one reason why I prefer doing street evangelism alone. No motive to get them in my church I just want to see God bring his elect to faith and use me. They may not go to my church but the Calvary Chapel down the road ,etc..

Well in my street ministry, I would like to see them going to church.....or back to church. But Im not going to send them back to a place that doesn't respect them or consider them valuable.......cause they are to me & more than me, they are valuable to God. And thats a dellema for me right now.....I cant in all fairness send them to any of these local guys who will not feed them, or worse feed them junk. So do I start a church on my own (Id prefer not to) or do I send them an hour away (they wont do that).....again, what to do?

 

[evangelist6589]

Well in my street ministry, I would like to see them going to church.....or back to church. But Im not going to send them back to a place that doesn't respect them or consider them valuable.......cause they are to me & more than me, they are valuable to God. And thats a dellema for me right now.....I cant in all fairness send them to any of these local guys who will not feed them, or worse feed them junk. So do I start a church on my own (Id prefer not to) or do I send them an hour away (they wont do that).....again, what to do?

I would be more eager to do evangelism for a church if I was in a like-minded Calvinist church where I wanted them to be at. However my present church I don't feel the need. But no question about it I have been in churches that I loved and they taught the Bible boldly.

 

[abcgrad94]

In this church, God has paved a way for John to be accepted into a group who doesn't even connect with his doctrine or approach. And he now has every opportunity for the Holy Spirit to renew his mind, to where he can learn to engage with others who do not agree.

He's trying to let God have His way, by trying to focus on where there is agreement so that he can fellowship in peace with them. And it's overflowing into his street ministry.

In other words, let him as a Calvie, come in to a non-calvie church and force his doctrine on others in an effort to to change them. Let him cause division, confusion, and recruit the members to his side until they oust the pastor, or make it impossible for him to have a ministry there. I'm well acquainted with this method and can spot it a mile away.

 

[convicted1]

Boy, this is a difficult problem. I really don't know what to tell Evan except to pray, pray, pray about what God would have him do.

:applause::applause::applause::applause:

 

[quantumfaith]

In other words, let him as a Calvie, come in to a non-calvie church and force his doctrine on others in an effort to to change them. Let him cause division, confusion, and recruit the members to his side until they oust the pastor, or make it impossible for him to have a ministry there. I'm well acquainted with this method and can spot it a mile away.

I have witnessed similar.