Church Growth Movement

It has nothing to do with what I think, but rather what Jesus taught, commanded, and demonstrated. My thoughts do not just come from me. They have been perfected by interaction with others who have made disciples under threat of losing their life. From what I am able to tell Jesus and the other NT writers discipled people personally not just corporately or in small groups. Sometime talk with those who discipled people in the midst of communism, and ask them how they did it especially considering the fact that it was illegal to do evangelism and to meet with more than just a few in a home. Some of those who met together in homes were joined by informants. If it can work there it can work anywhere.

Of course God has made me with gifts that not everyone has and I reach people that others do not. Is it not obvious that every baby is different and every parent is different but all are babies and all are parents. Is it not the responsibility of parents to raise godly children? Of course that does not happen with just one parent, but within a community. In that community are many different people. It is the same way at church. No disciple can be faithfully helped in just one way. That means that small groups are not the answer. Corporate worship is not the answer. Privately meeting with others is not the answers. All are important. If I had to pick one that I believe is most helpful it is in a private. Privacy is conducive to the most accountability.

Jesus did not either. Jesus taught His disciples as they followed Him. The end result is what is crucial. The Holy Spirit will give you wisdom in what you should or should not do. I never disciple any two people exactly alike because each person is different and has different needs. They are unique and will also reach people in their circle of influence.

Only the Holy Spirit does what is happening in your church. That is not a product of the CGM but God. Unless the Lord builds the house they labor in vain.

I agree 100% and that is my point too. Most CGM church pastors I have met would talk more about the latest book they read as the answer to growth rather than scripture and trusting God to work in the hearts of men and women. I found very few pastors in the CGM who would discuss what they read in their Greek NT or what God is teaching them. In fact I cannot think of one.

Many of those are nice but not all are essential. How many large buildings did the early church meet in? If Christians are persecuted those buildings may empty out, and the church go underground and meet in homes. Unless the Lord builds the house they labor in vain. When the Lord build people know that it is not them but Him.

A few years ago I read a book in which the author said that a church which was about 50 sent its leaders to a church growth conference. The leaders returned and did everything that the conference suggested. After one year the church grew to about 500. Then one year later the church declined to 50. The point is that it was about doing the right things but they were not blessed by God.

 

Numbers are souls but what they do with the numbers is crucial.

 

If you knew me then you would not make that statement. What would you do if 20 people within a short time asked oyu to meet with them. I would think you would do the same thing I did. I met with them as a group and met with some as individuals. I did my best to reach them in the most effective way I could. I have also met with just one person. I have also preached in a youth conference that drew from about 700 churches.

In Acts 20 Paul tells the listeners that the Holy Spirit has made them the overseers. An overseer watches and cares for the flock and does whatever it takes to help make each person well. I grew up on a farm and we watched our herd, but if an animal was sick we cared for it individually. We did whatever it took to help make the individual animal well. There were times when we spent hours and weeks caring for a sick animal. We fed the cattle as a group but we also doctored the individual animals that was sick. Sometimes it required medicine and sometimes it required a scalpel. Sometime when you get a chance visit a chicken farm. When a chicken is sick the other chickens will pounce on it and eventually make it bleed. When it bleeds the others will start pecking the bleeding spot until the chicken dies. Recently I met with a young person who saw that happen in a church and the leadership did nothing. I met with that person in private addressing their issues and pointed the person to scripture trying to encourage the person to find a good church that had good leadership.

I believe that people are discipled in three ways and it is important for each to be there. 1) corporately as an assembly 2) small group instruction and care as a small community 3) individually.

Of course but then reality hits when you ask yourself “how many less than 100% are doing that. What is done about the one that got away? Do you know who those are who got away in the church you attend? If not then why not?
There is also great value as a large assembly. When I was a kid I went to a church of at least 6,000. Others seem small to me. Your church would be small compared to what my experience was.
Two years ago I met a young man who was a declared atheist. He was going to the same church I was and heard the same sermons I heard. He went to the church because his family did. I found out later that nobody in leadership knew what was going on his mind. The first time I met him we talked for 2.5 hours. In that discussion I told him that there were answers to his doubts and questions. He looked at me and said “There are?” The next time I met with him for about the same length of time. I showed him some interaction with one who had left a large church and was an elder but now runs a well known website devoted to atheism. After the two meeting she became a follower of Jesus. He now meets with other men and disciples them. I met with him each week and at times for as long as four hours. He was hungry to grow.

Less than one year ago I started meeting with a young man who told me on the second meeting that he had never read his Bible at home. When I first started meeting I handed him a Bible study that helps to develop habits in people that will help them grow as a Christian. During that meeting I asked him if there was anyone he knew that he could pray for and possibly start meeting with. By the next week when I met with him he told me that he had gone through the same Bible study with a friend of his. His friend was trouble in the church he went to. His pastor saw me meeting with the young man and told me later that he knew the young man and his friend and that his friend did not like coming to church and acted as though he did not care. The friend was sleeping with his girl friend and after some time the friend broke off the relationship with his girlfriend and started growing. The friend was to leave to go into the military in three months. The young man did not know how to help his friend at the time but as we met I helped him to encourage the friend to do the right thing and tell him the truth. In just a few weeks both of them were studying scripture and doing things together.
Both of those men went to church and were in a small group.
Sometime study the historical background of Mt. 18:20. It is about how rabbis in training studied and helped one another. That is two or three people.

Children being trained and the historical context of Matthew 18:20.

Acts 8: 27-31 So he got up and went; and there was an Ethiopian eunuch, a court official of Candace, queen of the Ethiopians, who was in charge of all her treasure; and he had come to Jerusalem to worship, and he was returning and sitting in his chariot, and was reading the prophet Isaiah. Then the Spirit said to Philip, "Go up and join this chariot." Philip ran up and heard him reading Isaiah the prophet, and said, "Do you understand what you are reading?" And he said, "Well, how could I, unless someone guides me?" And he invited Philip to come up and sit with him.

The first step is individually, in private.

It is not. There have been times when I could not meet with everyone. There were too many who asked me to meet with them.

Many times larger than any local church. Jesus proved that. While I was in college when I came to Christ I later built a team of about 85. What is the average size of a congregation in your denomination? I am just one person. That is less than 4 years as a student at a college. The actual time from when I started meeting with one person was closer to two years. Everyone of them were at least in a Bible study and most of them were meeting with others.

A few years ago I pastored a church that went from 90 to 220 in 18 months in a town of 1100. That church grew from 25 to 89 ten years earlier because a local pastor got very sick and they could not find a pastor to come. So the church disbanded. The church I pastoredhad grown one person in 10 years. Up until the time I put a stop to it they had a regular practice of inviting the Mormon bishop to come once a year and preach. Both of the previous two pastors who allowed the practice to continue are now working in the denomination. So much for those pastors making disciples.
One man I know was discipled individually and he is now the leader of a denomination that has the largest per capita giving in the U.S. to missions. That denomination has many more churches in other countries than here. Their largest number is in Vietnam and that was largely due to what happened in the war. That is what can happen with one person being discipled and training others to disciple others.

What was the size of the church Jesus started? How big is it today. Was He wrong in what he did and commanded? The man you mentioned may have had different gifts and hence a different focus. Is there something wrong with the way God chose to gift him? Living the Christian life is not about pastors pastoring large church or pastors pastoring small church. It is about the church doing what it is commanded to do. How many people was Jesus talking to when he told them to make disciples?

By addition you are right. By multiplication you are wrong. Just compare the numbers below by addition of 100 per day and discipling one person every two years for forty years. Evangelism and Bible studies for the most part are addition. Multiplication is training people to reach and train others so they can reach others and train others who reach and train others.

 

Generations
Number of people by multiplication (discipleship)
by Addition of 100 per day (evangelism only)
1
2
36,000
2
4
72,000
3
8
108,000
4
16
144,000
5
32
180,000
6
64
216,000
7
128
252,000
8
256
288,000
9
512
324,000
10
1,024
360,000
11
2,048
396,000
12
4,096
432,000
13
8,192
468,000
14
16,384
504,000
15
32,768
540,000
16
65,536
576,000
17
131,072
612,000
18
262,144
648,000
19
524,288
684,000
20
1,048,576
720,000


The following is a quote from the book Guide to Spiritual Warfare by E.M. Bounds

To mistake the true power of the church's strength is to mistake the true character of the church. When its character is changed, then all its efforts and aims are also changed. The strength of the church lies in its devotion to God. All else is incidental and is not the source of its strength. But in worldly, popular language, a local church is called strong when its membership is large, and when it has social position and financial resources. A church is thought to be powerful when ability, learning, and eloquence fill the pulpit, and when the pews are filled by fashion, intelligence, money, and influence. An assumption of this kind is worldly to the fullest extent.

. . . The church's strength is not found in these worldly attachments or endowments, but in the endowment of the Holy Spirit on its members.

On the contrary, show us a church that is poor, illiterate, obscure, and unknown, but composed of praying people. They may not be men of power, wealth, or influence. Their families may not know one week where they are to get their bread for the next. But with them is "the hiding of [God's] power" (Habakkuk 3:4), and their influence will be felt for eternity. Wherever they go there is a fountain of light, Christ in them is glorified, and His kingdom is advanced. They are His chosen vessels of salvation who reflect His light.

Have you ever had any discussion with any of them asking them about how they personally make disciples. One of those a few years ago was a leader in your denomination and past pres. of one of its seminaries. When I asked him some questions he walked away with his head down. He has written some CGM books.

 

When we start we must ask ourselves: Why would God entrust us with many if we have not been faithful with at least one?

Why would we entrust someone to build our home if he calls himself a carpenter but has never built a home.

Why would we want to follow a pastor who calls himself a leader but has never led at least one person to maturity.

When I pastored I led the leaders of teams. I poured my life into a few who poured their+ life into a few. Almost anyone can help another grow but fewer lead many leaders. John Maxwell writes that strong leaders today were led by strong leaders.

When I visited homes, people in the hospital, funerals, etc. I almost always took one of more with me. The purpose was to train them to lead and maybe they would finds a ministry that fit their giftedness. I always felt that I should not be doing something that someone else could do. Let them have that blessing.

In a church I pastored as a man who lived a quiet life but did he ever share his faith. That man was one of the most credible men I have ever met. I cannot think of anyone I ever met who did not trust him. But he planted and took care of the flowers at the church. I really doubt many knew that. The man was very humble and was a tremendous example and encouragement to me. He also expressed gratitude for how I was leading the church and how it was helping his grandchildren.

While Jesus had many disciples he shared his life much more intimately with a few. That is what is so good about how genuine discipleship works. We do not have to run around busy like a chicken with our head cut off trying to get everything done. We train a few who train a few and the job gets done with more and more being reached.

When I was 21 I started a children's program with six kids. Eventually it grew to be one of the largest programs in that church. Each week I gave a one verse message. All of the workers prayed for each child. Eventually we had to split the group because the room was not large enough and we could get workers at other times. Eventually when it came time some of the children did not want to leave. So I asked the pastor if they could help. So we developed a way to train them to help and assist the children. Being in seventh grade they were beginning to work with children under adult supervision. We worked with each one to help them teach and assist us. We did that for two years and they they went into the high school group. Guess who some of the leaders in the high school group were? We trained the children to share their faith and follow up on their friends. Today those children are married and have families of their own.

 

Let me be frank. If I were having an illicit affair with a woman, I'm not going to confess it to 4 guys at a Denny's breakfast. And yet, too often, Christian accountability is carried out in these types of environments. We meet in small groups in a weekly environment with a few of our friends. Ultimately, there is a lid on how transparent these conversations can be, and too often, we believe that if we are meeting weekly then we are "accountable."

My best conversations about my brokenness and struggles have come in non-typical environments. Places where I am completely relaxed, at ease, and feel removed from my daily life.

I have seen leaders every year go away for a week and meet with a coach or therapist and have this time be very effective. They dump a ton of junk, begin working strategies in their life, and start dealing with significant character issues. To be frank, I would rather have us have one week of brutal honesty than 52 weeks of semi-honesty at Denny's.

Source: http://www.churchleaders.com/pastor...er&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Daily-Update

This is one reason why small groups can be ineffective. It only takes one person to slip and cause damage to another.

 

Isn't it great to be in a chruch where everyone is welcome!!!! I was born in Los Angeles and never experienced some of the things I did in more homogeneous areas of America. There is something like 178 different languages spoken in Los Angeles.