Church Security

[DHK]

So, I guess some of you truly believe that Jesus would have told you that if somebody is trying to kill you and your family, just let them, don't arm yourself, don't defend yourself, just let them do whatever they want. :tonofbricks:

Provide Scripture for your stance.
Trust in the providence of God.
It is Jesus who holds the keys of death hell and of death (Rev.1:18).
He has the power over life and death. He is sovereign. If it is your time to die, not all the weaponry in the world can stop you from dying.

Criminals have access to guns no matter what the laws are. And they have access to bigger, better, and more sophisticated guns then the little concealed "water pistol" you carry.
You need to ask yourself the question how you want people to remember you when you die: Like a member of the New York mob, the Italian Mafia, an unsaved Texan Cowboy shooting up the wild west, etc. Is that the reputation you want left behind--you and your guns?
Or is it that of a Christian who suffered gladly at the hands of others?

Look around you? What is happening in America today? In the past few days there has been six different mass shootings with dozens of people killed, all unnecessary deaths. Why? The easy accessibility of guns. Violence begets violence. And some Christians want to get caught up in this same violent culture that Christianity ought not have any part of. Is it "hip" to be violent? Is that the current fad? Take a look:

http://www.kctv5.com/news/19099840/detail.html#-


http://start.shaw.ca/start/enCA/News/WorldNewsArticle.htm?src=w0405105A.xml

http://ac360.blogs.cnn.com/2009/04/06/part-of-america-died/

America is self-destructing. Are you, as a Christian, part of the problem or part of the solution?

 

[corndogggy]

Provide Scripture for your stance.

It's not my stance... it's apparently yours. You provide it.

 

[corndogggy]

In the past few days there has been six different mass shootings with dozens of people killed, all unnecessary deaths. Why? The easy accessibility of guns.

Guns have been easily accessible ever since their invention. Nothing has changed that in the past few days, weeks, months, years, or even decades.

 

[saturneptune]

Look around you? What is happening in America today? In the past few days there has been six different mass shootings with dozens of people killed, all unnecessary deaths. Why? The easy accessibility of guns. Violence begets violence. And some Christians want to get caught up in this same violent culture that Christianity ought not have any part of. Is it "hip" to be violent? Is that the current fad? Take a look:

http://www.kctv5.com/news/19099840/detail.html#-


http://start.shaw.ca/start/enCA/News/WorldNewsArticle.htm?src=w0405105A.xml

http://ac360.blogs.cnn.com/2009/04/06/part-of-america-died/

America is self-destructing. Are you, as a Christian, part of the problem or part of the solution?

You take care of issues and concerns in your country and we will do likewise.

 

[John Toppass]

This is very true. But that he told all his disciples to be armed with swords is a misconception. You cannot find that in Scripture. He said no such thing.

Pure semantics. If Jesus didn't need to be defended then Peter was rebuked for his needless and useless action. It is the same thing.

This is true.

This is your stated opinion for which you provide no Scriptural proof. Opinions are just that--opinion. They are worth their two cents. Give me Scripture instead.

I was commenting on the Scripture or in a discussion on a particular passage of Scripture, not your stated opinions or foregone conclusions which you think are Biblically-based, but cannot prove that they are.

If you would read this whole thread then you would find that scripture is given many times supporting what I have said.

We in the USA look at our country different and we are passionate about it. We were raised as citizens and not as subjects.

 

[saturneptune]

If you would read this whole thread then you would find that scripture is given many times supporting what I have said.

We in the USA look at our country different and we are passionate about it. We were raised as citizens and not as subjects.

Couldn't have said it better myself. For all of our faults, and we have many, I would take this country over any other in the world. If I had to choose a second country, it certainly would not be one that has subjects to a royal (small r emphasized) family.

 

[JustChristian]

It's not my stance... it's apparently yours. You provide it.

Mat 5:43 Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy.
Mat 5:44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;
Mat 5:45 That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.

Apparently you believe this doesn't apply to you. It does.

 

[DHK]

If you would read this whole thread then you would find that scripture is given many times supporting what I have said.

I have read most of this thread. I have both presented Scripture, and refuted the Scripture that has been refuted, so it seems that you are the one that hasn't been following all of this thread, not me.

We in the USA look at our country different and we are passionate about it. We were raised as citizens and not as subjects.

"You in the USA," meaning who??
You know little of me? So exactly what are you referring to?
Your last point is simply a red herring that has nothing to do with this thread. It is also a demeaning slur.

 

[saturneptune]

Your last point is simply a red herring that has nothing to do with this thread. It is also a demeaning slur.

Except for the fact this is not the first time you have slurred the United States as a country.

 

[DHK]

Except for the fact this is not the first time you have slurred the United States as a country.

There is nothing that I have said, that I would not have said as an American.

 

[Alive in Christ]

PreachinJesus...

You said...

"I'm personally against any kind of violence or retaliation on the part of Christians. God has taught us not to be avengers. Christ healed the man whose ear had been cut off by one of his disciples.

As soon as I heard this sad story I immediately shuddered at how many churches would soon allow some members to begin carrying firearms into their sactuaries and in the halls. I was sad. While we can, and should, encourage appropriate security measures by vigilant people we should never condone the carrying of weapons as a defensive measure.

Just my opinion. Again I say it having served in two churches where the senior pastor was guarded by at least two armed guards because of his noteriety and (in one case) over realized sense of self.

How many accidental shootings will it take to shift public opinion the other way? It seems to me the greatest testimony of a church community is what happened with the Amish shootings several years ago, and how this church is acting in light of the more recent tragedy"

I agree with you 100%

If I were a pastor I would make it EXTREMELY clear to everyone that firearms in the meeting room will NOT be tolerated under any circumstances, and if I find out anyone is they will be disfellowshipped.

All this talking of having men "packing" in church, and people being in stategic positions to kill someone make me sick to my stomach.


God have mercy.


:godisgood:

 

[saturneptune]

PreachinJesus...

You said...



I agree with you 100%

If I were a pastor I would make it EXTREMELY clear to everyone that firearms in the meeting room will NOT be tolerated under any circumstances, and if I find out anyone is they will be disfellowshipped.

All this talking of having men "packing" in church, and people being in stategic positions to kill someone make me sick to my stomach.


God have mercy.


:godisgood:

Just curious, how can someone be disfellowshipped by the wishes of one person, pastor or not. Our church constitution, which is typical of our area, requires a 2/3rds vote by the congregation.

 

[Alive in Christ]

SaturnNeptune...

"Just curious, how can someone be disfellowshipped by the wishes of one person, pastor or not. Our church constitution, which is typical of our area, requires a 2/3rds vote by the congregation."

Well, I've never been a pastor, so I guess I dont know all the ins and outs, but I would definetly make it clear that guns will not be tolerated in the church building.

Its unthinkable.

 

[abcgrad94]

It would be very unwise to tell people they are not allowed to concealed carry on your church property when they have the legal right to do so. You are setting yourselves up for a major lawsuit if you do that.

First, research your state laws and see what they have to say. In my state I am free to carry my firearms ANYWHERE I want except for government buildings, schools, school buses, detention centers/jails, or on property where signs are posted prohibiting firearms.

If you're so all-fired against honest people carrying their own protection with them, simply put up a sign prohibiting firearms on your church property. No hard feelings, nobody gets restricted ILLEGALLY, issue over.

Honestly, the lack of information and panic on this thread against guns is amazing to me. I find it very sad that my fellow Christians have bought into the media's bias against law-abiding people. You need not fear the one who has jumped through hoops to get a permit. He may one day save your life.

 

[John Toppass]

It would be very unwise to tell people they are not allowed to concealed carry on your church property when they have the legal right to do so. You are setting yourselves up for a major lawsuit if you do that.

First, research your state laws and see what they have to say. In my state I am free to carry my firearms ANYWHERE I want except for government buildings, schools, school buses, detention centers/jails, or on property where signs are posted prohibiting firearms.

If you're so all-fired against honest people carrying their own protection with them, simply put up a sign prohibiting firearms on your church property. No hard feelings, nobody gets restricted ILLEGALLY, issue over.

Honestly, the lack of information and panic on this thread against guns is amazing to me. I find it very sad that my fellow Christians have bought into the media's bias against law-abiding people. You need not fear the one who has jumped through hoops to get a permit. He may one day save your life.

Well stated. I can not believe how many folks here decide that self defense is the same as revenge or being aggressive or what ever stretch of untruth they feel they have to add to try and defend their paranoia and unstable reasoning.

 

[corndogggy]

I was just thinking... the guy who attacked the mega-church in Denver had a very large amount of ammo, could have easily done alot of damage, but he was brought down nearly immediately by the armed security guard...

which makes me wonder just how many of those people in the congregation considered it unthinkable that the guard would protect them like that. :BangHead: I bet the guard couldn't go 5 seconds without hearing a heartfelt "thank you" for awhile.

 

[JustChristian]

It would be very unwise to tell people they are not allowed to concealed carry on your church property when they have the legal right to do so. You are setting yourselves up for a major lawsuit if you do that.

First, research your state laws and see what they have to say. In my state I am free to carry my firearms ANYWHERE I want except for government buildings, schools, school buses, detention centers/jails, or on property where signs are posted prohibiting firearms.

If you're so all-fired against honest people carrying their own protection with them, simply put up a sign prohibiting firearms on your church property. No hard feelings, nobody gets restricted ILLEGALLY, issue over.

Honestly, the lack of information and panic on this thread against guns is amazing to me. I find it very sad that my fellow Christians have bought into the media's bias against law-abiding people. You need not fear the one who has jumped through hoops to get a permit. He may one day save your life.

You're claiming that the church can't declare itself a violence-free sanctuary? People have always considered the church to be a safe haven. I hope my church is sued for not allowing firearms.

 

[abcgrad94]

You're claiming that the church can't declare itself a violence-free sanctuary? People have always considered the church to be a safe haven. I hope my church is sued for not allowing firearms.

Did you read what I posted? Check your state's laws. I do not know the laws regarding churches in all 50 states, but in my state I have a legal right to carry while at church unless there is a sign prohibiting it. If there is a sign, I cannot legally carry there. It's that simple.

 

[just-want-peace]

Did you read what I posted? Check your state's laws. I do not know the laws regarding churches in all 50 states, but in my state I have a legal right to carry while at church unless there is a sign prohibiting it. If there is a sign, I cannot legally carry there. It's that simple.

Repeat of same old problem - reading through such biased eyes that reading comprehension is almost non-existent.

A glaringly obvious problem on this board; especially this thread!

 

[JustChristian]

Did you read what I posted? Check your state's laws. I do not know the laws regarding churches in all 50 states, but in my state I have a legal right to carry while at church unless there is a sign prohibiting it. If there is a sign, I cannot legally carry there. It's that simple.

Isn't that what I said? (Can't the church declare itself a violence free sanctuary?) I suppose I didn't use the word sign.