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Churches Rarely Reprimand Members

Reformed

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
And what if it were the pastor who was misusing his authority to manipulate a person to do what he wanted him to do?

I know a individual who was told he had to sign off that his kid had asbergers so that his church school could get money from the state... ie financing. And you should know that NJ is the place this stuff happens all the time... we have the most instances of these autistic supposed mental issues.

I already addressed abuse in my two prior posts. Just because church discipline is misused does not mean the biblical command is to be forsaken. If a pastor/elder compromised his office for financial gain, he should be placed under discipline himself. Any church that protects corrupt pastors is a church you want to flee from.
 

1689Dave

Well-Known Member
I've come across a couple of churches that bothered my conscience when tithing or helping out. And going on gut feeling I broke off my involvement with them. I found suitable fellowship elsewhere. Only to find out later it was the right move.
 

Rhetorician

Administrator
Administrator

Hello all:

I hope you are enjoying the Lord's blessings today?!

Two things:

First, Luther said that it took three things for there to be a true church: The right preaching of the Gospel, the right administration of the sacraments (ordinances), and church discipline. If this is true, and this is followed; then there are not many churches about of any hew, tint, or stripe. Church discipline is a de facto lost doctrine.

Second, we of the Southern Baptist Convention are happy to supply those stats for your usage. You are welcome.

sdg!

rd
 
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Earth Wind and Fire

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
I already addressed abuse in my two prior posts. Just because church discipline is misused does not mean the biblical command is to be forsaken. If a pastor/elder compromised his office for financial gain, he should be placed under discipline himself. Any church that protects corrupt pastors is a church you want to flee from.
Or taken to the woodshed and beaten to a pulp. Guaranteed, he wouldn’t do it again.
 

tyndale1946

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Or taken to the woodshed and beaten to a pulp. Guaranteed, he wouldn’t do it again.

WHOA!... There Steve what happened to he who is without sin cast the first stone?... Brother Glen:eek::Roflmao

I'll say one thing about you Steve, you do speak your mind!
 
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Earth Wind and Fire

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
WHOA!... There Steve what happened to he who is without sin cast the first stone?... Brother Glen:eek::Roflmao

I'll say one thing about you Steve, you do speak your mind!
I don’t like it when they use their post (ie position) to manipulate and misrepresent my Lord and Savior
 
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Earth Wind and Fire

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
I've come across a couple of churches that bothered my conscience when tithing or helping out. And going on gut feeling I broke off my involvement with them. I found suitable fellowship elsewhere. Only to find out later it was the right move.

Probably the Lord warning you. I see a problem with disciplinary action by churches. If a church has a pastor that uses this doctrine to punish and get rid of people he personally disagrees with rather than loving them and working with them, then the doctrine has been corrupted. Now you got a pope who excommunicates, not a pastor.

Maybe its the churches that need independent internal boards in order to judge themselves.
 
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Salty

20,000 Posts Club
Administrator
Probably the Lord warning you. I see a problem with disciplinary action by churches. If a church has a pastor that uses this doctrine to punish and get rid of people he personally disagrees with rather than loving them and working with them, then the doctrine has been corrupted. Now you got a pope who excommunicates, not a pastor.

Maybe its the churches that need independent internal boards in order to judge themselves.

What would you think of the church inviting a counsel coming in to provide recommended action. We normally do that for ordinations
 

rlvaughn

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
What would you think of the church inviting a counsel coming in to provide recommended action. We normally do that for ordinations
I don't see anything wrong with a church calling a council to hear a matter and give them a recommendation. Hopefully it won't be that tangled in most cases. Nevertheless, the counsel is just that, and the church itself is the highest authority.

J. M. Pendleton talks about councils in his Baptist Church Manual (others probably do as well).
Councils composed of judicious brethren may be expected to give good advice, and good advice should be taken; but as councils are advisory, they are not authoritative bodies.
 

Earth Wind and Fire

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
I don’t want to be sour grapes or antagonistic here but I have seen first hand churches that misuse the discipline doctrine to railroad members and so it has put a bad taste in my mouth. So much so that I am very critical and discerning in joining churches. And let’s face it, churches are made up of humans apt to error. Why then should I then give any church authority over me?
 

Reformed

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Why then should I then give any church authority over me?
Besides the fact that scripture commands it?

Listen, I understand that you have been hurt by a bad church experience(s). As human beings, we have all been hurt. If we are truthful, we are probably guilty of hurting others. As redeemed sinners, one hallmark of being a new creature (2 Corinthians 5:17) is the ability to forgive. Another hallmark is obedience to God's commands. When we resist both of these we are like salmon swimming upstream. We resist these things to our own harm and never know the full peace of God.
 

Earth Wind and Fire

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Besides the fact that scripture commands it?

Listen, I understand that you have been hurt by a bad church experience(s). As human beings, we have all been hurt. If we are truthful, we are probably guilty of hurting others. As redeemed sinners, one hallmark of being a new creature (2 Corinthians 5:17) is the ability to forgive. Another hallmark is obedience to God's commands. When we resist both of these we are like salmon swimming upstream. We resist these things to our own harm and never know the full peace of God.
I’m sorry, how do you know I don’t forgive ... however I’m very discerning regarding people who themselves continue in their own sins. You seem to perpetuate this story that church people are at heart really good people, I don’t see it. In fact, if I wanted to go to a place where I can find hypocrites, guess where I’d go?
 

Reformed

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
I’m sorry, how do you know I don’t forgive
You and I have discussed your feelings on the church more than once. Each time it concludes with you having a very poor opinion of the church. It seems that you are holding a grudge of some type and will not let it go.
You seem to perpetuate this story that church people are at heart really good people
I never said that, nor do I believe that. The local church is a meeting place for redeemed sinners who are fighting against abiding sin daily.

I wanted to go to a place where I can find hypocrites, guess where I’d go?
Well, there is always room for one more.
 

Earth Wind and Fire

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
You and I have discussed your feelings on the church more than once. Each time it concludes with you having a very poor opinion of the church. It seems that you are holding a grudge of some type and will not let it go.

I never said that, nor do I believe that. The local church is a meeting place for redeemed sinners who are fighting against abiding sin daily.


Well, there is always room for one more.
You and I have discussed your feelings on the church more than once. Each time it concludes with you having a very poor opinion of the church. It seems that you are holding a grudge of some type and will not let it go.

I never said that, nor do I believe that. The local church is a meeting place for redeemed sinners who are fighting against abiding sin daily.


Well, there is always room for one more.
i have a poor opinion of churches in my neck of the woods if the truth be known, not every place. If you visited with a RCC down the road then went to the community Baptist Church down the road & viewed the faces I guarantee you won’t see any joy and that bothers me. We should not be “same old same old”... we should be the folks with the Good News. So what has happened?

At one time, I had a Presbyterian pastor who had tragically lost his young son in a car accident. His wife blamed him for the loss and thus divorced him. Because of that divorce, he had a difficult time finding work and he loved being a pastor. Oh boy, when he got to pastor up here he just blossomed. He did stuff, building marriage seminars, meetings with congregants to do addiction prayer meetings, visitations (the only guy to come to my house), and he rebuilt poor peoples homes, cleaned lawns, built a place for the community kids to go to and a million other things... all the while giving thought provoking sermons. He even provided marriage counseling to my wife and I and remarried us. The man never stopped until he died of a massive heart attack. That devastated me, what’s more it hurt my family.

We tried to find a suitable church, close so we could be present but that didn’t work...allot of bad stories and unbelievable shock.... we discovered liberals, pedofiles, transvestites, pastors having affairs, club churches, out and out nut jobs, and churches that never went out to the community. After a while, I started to believe that God abandoned the area...we are a family struggling in to stay Christian in a post Christian area of the country. Until the cancer came into our lives there was almost no mention of God. But now God abounds. People praying, kindness, love.

God has shown me that there are remnants of his good grace still existing here, probably not in the churches but they still exist in the communities. So I’m old now ,diabetic without the energy that once sustained me... I will have to put it in His hands. Perhaps a revival?!? But that’s Gods call, not mine.
 
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PastoralMusings

Active Member
Earth Wind And Fire,
It occurs to me that the problems that you see with discipline and hypocrisy have nothing to do with true discipline at all, but have much to do with the absence of true discipline. True discipline occurs in a loving covenant communion where people long to see their brothers and sisters live in holiness, and use discipline as a last resort in calling the erring one to repentance, and they are ready and willing to embrace them in loving communion when they do repent.
We all need that in our lives.
 
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