Until its change for the worse, that was the primary audience that the 1984 Niv was made for!
-
Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!
Col. 1 in the NLT
- Thread starter John of Japan
- Start date
No it doesn’t. I’m an American and it means
Definition of ABNORMAL
: deviating from the normal or average
//a person with abnormal [=exceptional] strength
//abnormal powers of concentration
The negative connotation is the secondary definition in American English. At least for now. It can change in the future.
Almost all of the translations of this verse that I looked at, had "hope." But the concept of hope could be understood as a whim, as in I hope to hit the lottery, but in reality, I know the odds virtually preclude the possibility. No the word here has a much more confident meaning, an expectation of God fulfilling His promised salvation. It is not hope that is reserved in the heavens, it is our eternal salvation. And when did we develop or come to that "hope?" When we heard beforehand the message of the truth of the gospel.
Col. 1:5 because of your expectation of salvation reserved for you in the heavens, which you previously heard in the message of truth, the gospel
Well, duh. You think I'm not an American?
Your quote is from Mirriam-Webster that I quoted from. It does not have numbered definitions. It clearly says "often : unusual in an unwelcome or problematic way" (emphasis added). So, with no context to say you meant the first definition, the only way to take your statement was in a negative way. There was no context to say you meant "exceptional." As it stood, it was insulting.
You are not convincing me that you understand American English communication.
Last edited:
MartyF has denigrated my knowledge of American English from the start. Just for the reader to know, I've taught English and Greek to Japanese. I taught English 101 two years when we first returned from Japan. I teach Greek to American millennials, and have to know English to do that. (Well, duh! 
) I have taught Greek to people from Hungary, Germany, Peru, Mexico, the US South, even Canada!
I'm not bragging, but simply giving my resume. If I were bragging, I'd be saying I was a good teacher or something similar. I'm not praising myself, just giving my own experience, which Marty previously did.
) I have taught Greek to people from Hungary, Germany, Peru, Mexico, the US South, even Canada!I'm not bragging, but simply giving my resume. If I were bragging, I'd be saying I was a good teacher or something similar. I'm not praising myself, just giving my own experience, which Marty previously did.
Really???? Is that your standard? I have to attack a version here on the BB to show I disagree with it???? Well, I haven't attacked The Message, The Living Bible, TEV, and many others here on the BB. So I guess I must think they are all right, too.
But FYI, in the most recent thread on the KJV, I attacked the KJV rendering of Ex 22:28, "Thou shalt not revile the gods, nor curse the ruler of thy people." This is clearly a mis-translation, and should have been "judges." As it stands, it encourages idolatry.
Well, in the first place, I don't have to do it just because you said to.
Secondly, I seriously doubt if he would want to debate me. I'm small fry. Though I'm sure he would be gracious about it. By the way, who is it? I can't find his identity on the Internet. Thirdly, I've got plenty to do right now to finish up the semester, and continue working on a book I'm writing. (My deadline is August.)My objection to paraphrases and DE versions is based on the doctrine of verbal-plenary inspiration.
Again, you quote posts yet you don't even know the content. The discussion was about the NLT.
You should have said "I taught English 101 for two years."
Tonto rides again.
You've been schooled on this before :"My view of 'verbal plenary inspiration' means that the meaning conveyed by every word is from God and should be reflected in the translation; however, if inspiration applied only to the words, then none of us would or should be reading English Bibles since these inspired words are in Hebrew, Aramaic and Greek." [Taken from Bill Mounce's blog article Formal Equivalent Theory]
"The Christian doctrine of divine inspiration concerns not words in isolation, but the meaning of those words in context....The translation that most closely adheres to the verbal and plenary inspiration of Scripture is the one that reproduces the total meaning of the text, not just its words." [Taken from How To Choose A Translation For All Its Worth by Fee and Strauss, page 36.]
"But why a literal translation is necessarily more in keeping with the doctrine of verbal inspiration, I am quite at a loss to know...The Holy Spirit who inspirit who inspired the words of Scripture equally inspired the syntax and the idioms. Ultimately what we want of a translation is a rendering that means what the original means, both in denotation and connotation." [Taken from D.A. Carson's book The King James Version Debate page 90.]
"Just because we believe in verbal, plenary inspiration does not necessarily dictate which translation philosophy we follow. The Word of God is true. The Word of God is expressed in words and sentences and grammar and punctuation. But to equate 'Word' and 'word' is not accurate...We omit some words since they perform grammatical functions...We move words around to make sense. None of this means one translation camp has a higher or lower view of Scripture." [Taken from Bill Mounce's blog Words, and Word of God.]
Last edited:
Got it. You would want them to absorb only 50% of the content instead of 90% with the NLT. Your irrationality is noted again.
9 So we have not stopped praying for you since we first heard about you. We ask God to give you complete knowledge of his will and to give you spiritual wisdom and understanding.
9 Διὰ τοῦτο καὶ ἡμεῖς, ἀφ᾽ ἧς ἡμέρας ἠκούσαμεν, οὐ παυόμεθα ὑπὲρ ὑμῶν προσευχόμενοι, καὶ αἰτούμενοι ἵνα πληρωθῆτε τὴν ἐπίγνωσιν τοῦ θελήματος αὐτοῦ ἐν πάσῃ σοφίᾳ καὶ συνέσει πνευματικῇ,
This is actually not bad. I don't consider it to be DE or paraphrase, but literal with good literary quality. I don't mind the translators making Paul's long sentence (the whole verse) into two sentences. We often had to do that in Japanese because the Japanese syntax does not favor long sentences. The main verb comes at the end in Japanese, making it hard to follow Paul's meaning sometimes.
Let me add here, after taking a second look, that the NLT is somewhat free with the time statement, "since we first heard about you." In the original, it is "from the day...." However, I don't see data being added or lost, here, and I don't see meaning essentially changed.
9 Διὰ τοῦτο καὶ ἡμεῖς, ἀφ᾽ ἧς ἡμέρας ἠκούσαμεν, οὐ παυόμεθα ὑπὲρ ὑμῶν προσευχόμενοι, καὶ αἰτούμενοι ἵνα πληρωθῆτε τὴν ἐπίγνωσιν τοῦ θελήματος αὐτοῦ ἐν πάσῃ σοφίᾳ καὶ συνέσει πνευματικῇ,
This is actually not bad. I don't consider it to be DE or paraphrase, but literal with good literary quality. I don't mind the translators making Paul's long sentence (the whole verse) into two sentences. We often had to do that in Japanese because the Japanese syntax does not favor long sentences. The main verb comes at the end in Japanese, making it hard to follow Paul's meaning sometimes.
Let me add here, after taking a second look, that the NLT is somewhat free with the time statement, "since we first heard about you." In the original, it is "from the day...." However, I don't see data being added or lost, here, and I don't see meaning essentially changed.
Last edited:
My intention for this thread was to examine ten verses and get some interaction. So far so good. I'm going to have to go home soon, so I'll post v. 10 here, since we don't have wifi at home.
10 Then the way you live will always honor and please the Lord, and your lives will produce every kind of good fruit. All the while, you will grow as you learn to know God better and better.
10 περιπατῆσαι ὑμᾶς ἀξίως τοῦ κυρίου εἰς πᾶσαν ἀρέσκειαν, ἐν παντὶ ἔργῳ ἀγαθῷ καρποφοροῦντες καὶ αὐξανόμενοι εἰς τὴν ἐπίγνωσιν τοῦ θεοῦ·
The translators substituted "way you live" for "walk" (περιπατῆσαι , an aorist active infinitive). This is a case of substituting plain language for the symbolic. This is actually an idiom, and it is acceptable IMO to do this in the case of an idiom, but not for a metaphor. The meaning is preserved here with no data added.
"Honor...the Lord" is substituted for ἀξίως, "worthily." I don't see this as necessary, thinking the average millennial understands "worthy/worthily."
There are a couple of places in this verse where the grammatical form is changed (the adverb ἀξίως became the verb "honor," etc.). This is not as big a deal with me as you might think, considering that very few languages are going to correspond in form to the Greek. English, though, is comparatively close to Greek in form (compared to Asian or PNG languages, for example), so you would think an attempt would be made to keep the form in an English translation. But I won't call a rendering incoherent or heretical or incompetent for this reason.
10 Then the way you live will always honor and please the Lord, and your lives will produce every kind of good fruit. All the while, you will grow as you learn to know God better and better.
10 περιπατῆσαι ὑμᾶς ἀξίως τοῦ κυρίου εἰς πᾶσαν ἀρέσκειαν, ἐν παντὶ ἔργῳ ἀγαθῷ καρποφοροῦντες καὶ αὐξανόμενοι εἰς τὴν ἐπίγνωσιν τοῦ θεοῦ·
The translators substituted "way you live" for "walk" (περιπατῆσαι , an aorist active infinitive). This is a case of substituting plain language for the symbolic. This is actually an idiom, and it is acceptable IMO to do this in the case of an idiom, but not for a metaphor. The meaning is preserved here with no data added.
"Honor...the Lord" is substituted for ἀξίως, "worthily." I don't see this as necessary, thinking the average millennial understands "worthy/worthily."
There are a couple of places in this verse where the grammatical form is changed (the adverb ἀξίως became the verb "honor," etc.). This is not as big a deal with me as you might think, considering that very few languages are going to correspond in form to the Greek. English, though, is comparatively close to Greek in form (compared to Asian or PNG languages, for example), so you would think an attempt would be made to keep the form in an English translation. But I won't call a rendering incoherent or heretical or incompetent for this reason.
Last edited:
I know, but point addressing here was a need for a version youths could use, and the 198 Niv was good for that!
Colossians 1:6 "which subsequently being present among you and throughout the whole world, is accordingly bearing fruit since the day you heard and truly recognized God's grace.
Putting the less imaginative rendering together:
"Paul, apostle of Christ Jesus through the will of God and Timothy the brother, to the set apart and believing siblings in Christ in Colosse, grace to you and peace from our Father. We always give thanks to God, the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, when we pray for you, since we heard about your faith in Christ Jesus and the love for all those set apart and the gospel message being present among you and throughout the whole world, is accordingly bearing fruit since the day you heard and truly recognized God's grace.
Last edited:
MartyF has denigrated my knowledge of American English from the start. Just for the reader to know, I've taught English and Greek to Japanese. I taught English 101 two years when we first returned from Japan. I teach Greek to American millennials, and have to know English to do that. (Well, duh!
I'm not bragging, but simply giving my resume. If I were bragging, I'd be saying I was a good teacher or something similar. I'm not praising myself, just giving my own experience, which Marty previously did.
FWIW
Im not messing w ya when it comes to Greek!!
Ive seen enough