COL 2:16 And The Sabbath - Are You Being Told The Truth?

[3rdAngel]

Why don't you guys convince them with the holy scriptures of Last Prophet Ellen G White?

Why would you need to change the subject of the OP when only Gods' WORD is presented? As for me I only believe and follow God's Word. Do you?

 

[3rdAngel]

John 7

22“For this reason Moses has given you circumcision (not because it is from Moses, but from the fathers), and on the Sabbath you circumcise a man. 23“If a man receives circumcision on the Sabbath so that the Law of Moses will not be broken, are you angry with Me because I made an entire man well on the Sabbath?

You can't keep Sabbath unless you are circumcised.

Listen this is about so the LAW of MOSES will not be broken.

Circumcision didn't start with Moses, Thats Abraham right? But you need to be circumcise else you break the Moses sabbath law.

Acts 15

1Some men came down from Judea and began teaching the brethren, “Unless you are circumcised according to the custom of Moses, you cannot be saved.”

Rubbish! You are confused brother in the "SHADOW LAWS IN ORDINANCES" and mixing up the OLD with the NEW. CIRCUMCISION is that of the heart through faith.

ROMANS 2:27-28 [28], For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: [29], But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

GALATIANS 5:6 For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision avails any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which works by love.

GALATIANS 6:15 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision avails any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature.

COLOSSIANS 3:11 Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all.

1 CORITNIANS 7:19 Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but the keeping of the commandments of God.

Yep God's Word says it all. Now where is the scripture that says God's 4th commandment has been abolished and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a Holy day? If you cannot find this scripture why are you following man made traditions that break the commandments of God?

Receive Gods' Word and be blessed

 

[utilyan]

Why would you need to change the subject of the OP when only Gods' WORD is presented? As for me I only believe and follow God's Word. Do you?

So the word's of Prophetess Ellen G White is not God's word?

 

[3rdAngel]

So the word's of Prophetess Ellen G White is not God's word?

You did not know God's WORD is the bible? Only God's Word is presented here in this thread. Why do you not want to discuss it?

 

[robycop3]

No need to be angry Roby. You either have God's Word for your tradition or you do not. Be honest you do not. Only God's Word is true and we should believe and follow it. Ignoring God's Word does not make it dissappear but will come back to bare witness against us come judgment day *JOHN 12:47-48.

I'm not angry; if I was, my dismissal of your cultic garbage would be much more blunt.

YOU are ignoring the TRUE meanings of certain Scriptures, substituting Mrs. White's scum for that truth.

 

[utilyan]

Rubbish! You are confused brother in the "SHADOW LAWS IN ORDINANCES" and mixing up the OLD with the NEW. CIRCUMCISION is that of the heart through faith.

ROMANS 2:27-28 [28], For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: [29], But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

GALATIANS 5:6 For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision avails any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which works by love.

GALATIANS 6:15 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision avails any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature.

COLOSSIANS 3:11 Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all.

1 CORITNIANS 7:19 Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but the keeping of the commandments of God.

Yep God's Word says it all. Now where is the scripture that says God's 4th commandment has been abolished and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a Holy day? If you cannot find this scripture why are you following man made traditions that break the commandments of God?

Receive Gods' Word and be blessed

Its never been abolished even for Jews today. The point is if you want to keep the sabbath you are REQUIRED CIRCUMCISION.

Simply give us the rundown on "HOW TO KEEP A SABBATH" Give us the scripture for it.

STEP 1



Step 1 how to keep sabbath.

"Now where is the scripture that says God's 4th commandment has been abolished and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a Holy day?"

Yes. Jesus Christ rose from the dead on Sunday in an act of HOLY WORSHIP that makes that day HOLIER than all weekdays.

We can get everyone in the world and force them to worship saturday........JESUS STILL HAS US BEAT, He did it on SUNDAY.

Romans 1
4who was declared the Son of God with power by the resurrection from the dead, according to the Spirit of holiness, Jesus Christ our Lord,

The Resurrection has blown out of the water the very essence of Sunday being holy. The power of the ressurection is ACCORIDING to the SPIRIT of holiness.


If your trying to say we are not allowed to worship on Sundays more than Saturdays, Jesus Christ already broke your rule.

He annihilated any chance of Saturday to ever top Sunday.


1 Corinthians 15

17and if Christ has not been raised, your faith is worthless; you are still in your sins.

ALL the worth came SUNDAY. No raise? WORTHLESS.


I can find more scripture. Point being if you want worship to occur on Saturday over Sunday. Jesus broke that.

 

[robycop3]

You did not know God's WORD is the bible? Only God's Word is presented here in this thread. Why do you not want to discuss it?

No, what you're presenting is Mrs. White's goofy private interps of God's word, not just His word.

 

[utilyan]

You did not know God's WORD is the bible? Only God's Word is presented here in this thread. Why do you not want to discuss it?

According to who?

What bible do you use, who says you have the correct bible?

We need to clearly define what the word is in order to discuss it.

You say Ellen G White is a false teacher, that clears plenty of things up.

 

[robycop3]

Just out of curiosity, did anyone actually read through all 7 of the Opening Posts wall of text?

(It seemed too high a price to pay just to join a conversation that will change nobody’s mind.)

Yes, I did. I have Bibles, & had read the Scriptures long ago, but the OPINIONS & FALSE PRIVATE INTERPS in those posts came from various writings of Mrs. Ellen G. White, the Grand Imperial Ooobah of the SDA cult.

 

[Alofa Atu]

John 7

22“For this reason Moses has given you circumcision (not because it is from Moses, but from the fathers), and on the Sabbath you circumcise a man. 23“If a man receives circumcision on the Sabbath so that the Law of Moses will not be broken, are you angry with Me because I made an entire man well on the Sabbath?

You can't keep Sabbath unless you are circumcised. ...

I am circumcised in the manner God requires, "spiritually" (Deuteronomy 10:16, 30:6; Jeremiah 4:4; Romans 2:29, etc) of the heart, since the Law of God is "spiritual" (Romans 7:14). Therefore, no law is broken. Or are you saying, that the keeping of the spiritual is not keeping?

 

[robycop3]

So you are saying that the entire portions of Isaiah, a Psalm, Kings and Chronicles aren't worth reading, simply because they 'repeat'? If not, help me understand the logic you are using here.

What's not worth reading is Mrs. White's false private interps of those Scriptures.

 

[1689Dave]

You seem to be in direct contradiction to robycop3, and robycop3 in direct contradiction to yourself. What do you say of robycop3's answer and position then, in relation to your own?



How about it robycop3? What do you now say of 1689Dave's answer, correct or not?

Why take the thread Off Topic?

 

[1689Dave]

That would mean that the definition you have, the substance of Love God and neighbour is abolished, empty. You have only the husk of the words remaining, which, btw, again, are contexually OT, and connected to Ten Commandments, see Deut. 6:5, and Lev. 19:17-18 and their context (such as Deut 5, and "sin", etc).

You are confusing the 10 Cs aimed at wicked unbelievers with the 2 GCs aimed at believers.

 

[1689Dave]

That is a misrepresentation of the following text:

Jer 31:32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:

Notice, it says nothing about "law". It refers to "Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers ..."

That "covenant" is found in Exodus 19, and is not the Ten Commandments:

Exo 19:3 And Moses went up unto God, and the LORD called unto him out of the mountain, saying, Thus shalt thou say to the house of Jacob, and tell the children of Israel;
Exo 19:4 Ye have seen what I did unto the Egyptians, and how I bare you on eagles' wings, and brought you unto myself.
Exo 19:5 Now therefore, if ye will obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant, then ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto me above all people: for all the earth is mine:
Exo 19:6 And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel.
Exo 19:7 And Moses came and called for the elders of the people, and laid before their faces all these words which the LORD commanded him.
Exo 19:8 And all the people answered together, and said, All that the LORD hath spoken we will do. And Moses returned the words of the people unto the LORD.

There are two covenants mentioned here.

[1] God's "my covenant", aka "His covenant" = the eternal covenant, the Ten Commandments (that already existed, even with Abraham, etc)

[2] The ('old') covenant God made with "their fathers", in which He offered, "If ... then ...", and they said, "All that the LORD hath spoken we will do. ..." (which 'covenant' at that time, then came into existence), then turn to Hebrews 8:

Heb 8:6 But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.
Heb 8:7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.
Heb 8:8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
Heb 8:9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.

The 'old' covenant was their agreement to obey God in all things.

The Law of God, the Ten Commandments, is at the heart of both covenants (see 2 Cor 3), but the means by which it is obeyed is differing. in the 'old' they promised and failed. Their promises of their fathers was faulty (in fact Jeremiah speaks of the teeth set on edge). God's Law of Ten Commandments are perfect promises, never to be rescinded.

Psa_89:34 My covenant will I not break, nor alter the thing that is gone out of my lips.

The Two Great Commandments are smack in heart of the Torah OT, Deuteronomy 6:5 and Leviticus 19:17-18, in context of God's Law, the Ten Commandments, see Deut 5, and Lev. 19 "sin". I thought you told us it wasn't the same? What gives?

““The LORD our God made a covenant with us at Mount Sinai. The LORD did not make this covenant with our ancestors, but with all of us who are alive today.” (Deuteronomy 5:2–3)

 

[Alofa Atu]

Why take the thread Off Topic?

Umm, it is on topic, and I am sure 3rdAngel would like an answer also. However, I do recall a certain someone going the route of "covenants" rather than exegete, line upon line Colossians 2. Who was that again? Maybe you can help me find that post.

 

[1689Dave]

There is nowhere in scripture that says that the 'old covenant' is the Ten Commandments. That too is eisegetically read into certain texts, when the context declares otherwise.

Jeremiah itself even refutes the claim, for Jeremiah says, under inspiration, "I will put my law ...". Just do a study in Jeremiah (then elsewhere) about "my law". It refers to the Ten Commandments. Don't take my word for it, go look up the words, "my law" or "my laws".

For instance:

Exo_16:4 Then said the LORD unto Moses, Behold, I will rain bread from heaven for you; and the people shall go out and gather a certain rate every day, that I may prove them, whether they will walk in my law, or no.

What is amazing, is the goal post shifting that goes on during the conversations on the Sabbath, from 1st day to no day, to any day, to changed, to no change, to solemnity change, to covenants, to day lines, to ISS, to Lunar, to etc etc etc ... It's truly a mess of a mess. Babylon (iow "confusion") itself.

Ten Commandments were the Old Covenant

“And He (God) wrote upon the tables the words of the covenant, the Ten Commandments.” Exodus 34:28


“And He declared unto you His covenant, which He commanded you to perform, even the Ten Commandments.” Deuteronomy 4:13:


“When I was gone up into the mount to receive the tables of stone, even the tables of the covenant.” Deuteronomy 9:9:


“So I turned and came down from the mount . . . and the two tables of the covenant were in my two hands.” Deuteronomy 9:15:

“There was nothing in the ark save the two tables of stone which Moses put there at Horeb, when Jehovah made a covenant with the children of Israel, when they came out of the land of Egypt,” I Kings 8:9

“And there have I set a place for the ark, wherein is the covenant of Jehovah, which he made with our fathers, when he brought them out of the land of Egypt.” I Kings 8:21

The second of these two texts is repeated in II Chronicles 6:11.

Consider “The ark of the covenant” that held the Ten Commandments (Numbers 10:33; Jeremiah 3:16, and other places)

Also; “It contained the golden altar of incense and the ark of the covenant covered entirely with gold. In this ark were the golden urn containing the manna, Aaron’s rod that budded, and the stone tablets of the covenant.” (Hebrews 9:4) (NET)

 

[Alofa Atu]

““The LORD our God made a covenant with us at Mount Sinai. The LORD did not make this covenant with our ancestors, but with all of us who are alive today.” (Deuteronomy 5:2–3)

I already showed you. There are two covenants in Exodus 19. The one made with the fathers, "If .. then ...", "All that the LORD hath said we will do ...". That is the 'old' covenant, that wasn't made with others.

 

[1689Dave]

Umm, it is on topic, and I am sure 3rdAngel would like an answer also. However, I do recall a certain someone going the route of "covenants" rather than exegete, line upon line Colossians 2. Who was that again? Maybe you can help me find that post.

You will be taking it off topic diverting attention away from the OP.

 

[1689Dave]

I already showed you. There are two covenants in Exodus 19. The one made with the fathers, "If .. then ...", "All that the LORD hath said we will do ...". That is the 'old' covenant, that wasn't made with others.

But you are confusing the now defunct 10Cs with the eternal 2GCs.

 

[Alofa Atu]

Ten Commandments were the Old Covenant

“And He (God) wrote upon the tables the words of the covenant, the Ten Commandments.” Exodus 34:28


“And He declared unto you His covenant, which He commanded you to perform, even the Ten Commandments.” Deuteronomy 4:13:


“When I was gone up into the mount to receive the tables of stone, even the tables of the covenant.” Deuteronomy 9:9:


“So I turned and came down from the mount . . . and the two tables of the covenant were in my two hands.” Deuteronomy 9:15:

“There was nothing in the ark save the two tables of stone which Moses put there at Horeb, when Jehovah made a covenant with the children of Israel, when they came out of the land of Egypt,” I Kings 8:9

“And there have I set a place for the ark, wherein is the covenant of Jehovah, which he made with our fathers, when he brought them out of the land of Egypt.” I Kings 8:21

The second of these two texts is repeated in II Chronicles 6:11.

Consider “The ark of the covenant” that held the Ten Commandments (Numbers 10:33; Jeremiah 3:16, and other places)

Also; “It contained the golden altar of incense and the ark of the covenant covered entirely with gold. In this ark were the golden urn containing the manna, Aaron’s rod that budded, and the stone tablets of the covenant.” (Hebrews 9:4) (NET)

As stated, there are two covenants in Exodus 19 (even plenty of commentaries agree if you need those also). You just proved what I stated. The eternal Law of God was "my covenant", not the one the father's made with God, in agreement.

As I said, you have to eisegetically read into those texts.