• Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Col.2{16}

Status
Not open for further replies.

DHK

<b>Moderator</b>
I would say yes...by implication, anyway. But it would depend on how one interprets observance, from a limited Old Testament perspective, or from a perspective where New Testament revelation defines obedience as a spiritual matter, rather than that which is more ritualistic.

Exodus 20:10 (King James Version)

10But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:

This command was given only to the Israelites. It is the only one not repeated in the NT. There is no direct command anywhere in the NT for the believer to keep the Sabbath.

Speak thou also unto the children of Israel, saying, Verily my sabbaths ye shall keep: for it is a sign between me and you throughout your generations; that ye may know that I am the LORD that doth sanctify you. (Exodus 31:13)
--The Sabbath was a sign between Israel and their generations forever; not for the NT believer.

Ye shall keep the sabbath therefore; for it is holy unto you: every one that defileth it shall surely be put to death: for whosoever doeth any work therein, that soul shall be cut off from among his people. (Exodus 31:14)
YE--(The Israelites) were to keep the Sabbath. No one else is ever commanded. And no one else would be commanded to be put to death for breaking it. It was only for the Israelites.

Wherefore the children of Israel shall keep the sabbath, to observe the sabbath throughout their generations, for a perpetual covenant. (Exodus 31:16)
--It was for the Israelites and their generations forever, for a perpetual covenant, not for the NT believer, not for any Gentile believer.

It is a sign between me and the children of Israel for ever: for in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he rested, and was refreshed. (Exodus 31:17)
--Emphatically, it is a sign between Jehovah and the children of Israel forever; not between Jehovah and anyone else.

This chapter makes it very clear what the purpose of the sabbath was for. It was for the Israelites, as a sign, a perpetual covenant, and not for anyone else.
 

Gerhard Ebersoehn

Active Member
Site Supporter
Not so! The Old Testament claims the seventh day Sabbath is the Old Covenant "sign" between God and Israel. The New Testament abolished the Old Covenant - and that you cannot deny along with its "sign" and "ceremonial types" which were as a "shadow" or "types" (Heb. 10:1; Col. 2:16-17) but the body or the essence which the shadow/types projected was Christ. The signs and types were abolished but the principles and truths projected by the signs and types are found in Christ.

Illustration - the sacrifices (Heb. 10:1-4) but the essence is a better sacrifice (Heb. 10:5-17). Illustration - the Seventh day Sabbath - Heb. 4:2-8 but the essence is a better Sabbath (Heb. 4:9-10) which commemorates the better work of resurrection (the first day of the week) and a better covenant - the New Covenant.

GE:

Not so! The Old Testament claims the Seventh Day Sabbath is the COVENANT-"sign" between God and Israel in most intimate, personal relationship "I-AM : YOUR God"; "I-AM YOUR God : who SANCTIFIES YOU", i.e., 'chooses YOU and sets YOU apart as MINE!

The New Testament CONFIRMS THAT 'Covenant', with "ALL ISRAEL" which is "SPIRITUAL ISRAEL"... I thought you knew that most elementary principle in Christian doctrine and faith, Dr Walter.

Indeed the Covenant with its "sign" and "ceremonial types" were as a "shadow" or "type" of Christ to come (Heb. 10:1) and of Christ's Body still "growing with the growth of God", Col. 2:16-19.

Yes, "the body or the essence which the shadow/types projected was Christ". What Worthy "Fullness of God all things in all" God's People "The Church ... fulfilling". (Ephesians 1:23)

The signs and types were abolished in the flesh of Jesus God's Christ on and through the cross; but the principles and truths projected by the signs and types were founded in and upon Jesus God's Christ in and through his Resurrection from the dead.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Gerhard Ebersoehn

Active Member
Site Supporter
...and I'll sommer borrow this for an answer to DHK's question of questions of all legalists who persist and insist 'Law' makes 'Law' :

"The signs and types were abolished in the flesh of Jesus God's Christ on and through the cross; but the principles and truths projected by the signs and types were founded in and upon Jesus God's Christ in and through his Resurrection from the dead."

 

DHK

<b>Moderator</b>
...and I'll sommer borrow this for an answer to DHK's question of questions of all legalists who persist and insist 'Law' makes 'Law' :

"The signs and types were abolished in the flesh of Jesus God's Christ on and through the cross; but the principles and truths projected by the signs and types were founded in and upon Jesus God's Christ in and through his Resurrection from the dead."

You have to allegorize and misconstrue Scripture to come to your conclusion stated above.

What is so hard about understanding this simple verse?

Speak thou also unto the children of Israel, saying, Verily my sabbaths ye shall keep: for it is a sign between me and you throughout your generations; that ye may know that I am the LORD that doth sanctify you. (Exodus 31:13)

The meaning is clear. If I can understand it, I am sure you can also.
 

Gerhard Ebersoehn

Active Member
Site Supporter
It is "MY SABBATHS, ye shall keep", that is the crux of the matter; not any or anyone's sabbaths -- not YOUR sabbaths -- ye shall keep; BUT GOD'S! "...my sabbaths .... a sign ... that ye may know that _I-AM_ am the LORD."

The only thing that ever changed here, is 'Israel', 'ye'. 'Israel' became "ALL ISRAEL"; "Israel after the flesh", has been "built up a spiritual House" of God's Own.

Also, yes, the Sabbath changed; from the from Egypt redeemed Sabbath, to the from hell redeemed Sabbath. Not even the Saviour of the two redemptions is another, for God is One in both redemptions --- The Rock was Christ; and salvation's water is drunk from the Same and Eternal Rock.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

DHK

<b>Moderator</b>
It is "MY SABBATHS, ye shall keep", that is the crux of the matter; not any or anyone's sabbaths -- not YOUR sabbaths -- ye shall keep; BUT GOD'S!

The only thing that ever changed here, is 'Israel', 'ye'. 'Israel' became "ALL ISRAEL"; "Israel after the flesh", has been "built up a spiritual House" of God's Own.

Also, yes, the Sabbath changed; from the from Egypt redeemed Sabbath, to the from hell redeemed Sabbath. Not even the Saviour of the two redemptions is another, for God is One in both redemptions --- The Rock was Christ; and salvation's water is drunk from the Same and Eternal Rock.
Read again:
Six days may work be done; but in the seventh is the sabbath of rest, holy to the LORD: whosoever doeth any work in the sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death. Wherefore the children of Israel shall keep the sabbath, to observe the sabbath throughout their generations, for a perpetual covenant. It is a sign between me and the children of Israel for ever: for in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he rested, and was refreshed. (Exodus 31:15-17)
--One verse mentions "my sabbaths."
The rest of the passage emphasizes the sabbath day. Six days thou shalt work, and one day shall be rest holy unto the Lord. That speaks of the Sabbath Day, and only the Sabbath Day, that was a sign to the children of Israel forever.
 

Gerhard Ebersoehn

Active Member
Site Supporter
You have to allegorize and misconstrue Scripture to come to your conclusion stated above.

What is so hard about understanding this simple verse?

Speak thou also unto the children of Israel, saying, Verily my sabbaths ye shall keep: for it is a sign between me and you throughout your generations; that ye may know that I am the LORD that doth sanctify you. (Exodus 31:13)

The meaning is clear. If I can understand it, I am sure you can also.

GE:

It seems the veil remaineth for you, DHK, when Moses is read... because you read with a 'law'- and fleshly eye.

 

Gerhard Ebersoehn

Active Member
Site Supporter
..............
--One verse mentions "my sabbaths"
...........................

GE:

And many others, always, mention "The Seventh Day Sabbath _OF THE LORD your God_" where "LORD" stands for "I-AM" the Self-Existing LORD-VICTOR-IN-BATTLE; and "God" stands for "MIGHTY-ONE-IN-REDEMPTION".

 
Last edited by a moderator:

DHK

<b>Moderator</b>
GE:

And many others, always, mention "The Seventh Day Sabbath _OF THE LORD your God_".

Yes, that day, and all the Sabbaths were to by kept by the Israelites and only by them. Not one Sabbath Day was ever to be kept by a Gentile Christian; not one. Can you point to any NT command where a Gentile believer is commanded to keep the Sabbath. You cannot, because there isn't one. We are not under the law, but under grace.
 

Gerhard Ebersoehn

Active Member
Site Supporter
Yes, that day, and all the Sabbaths were to by kept by the Israelites and only by them. Not one Sabbath Day was ever to be kept by a Gentile Christian; not one. Can you point to any NT command where a Gentile believer is commanded to keep the Sabbath. You cannot, because there isn't one. We are not under the law, but under grace.

GE:

Can you give me one Scripture that speaks of "a Gentile Christian" or one Scripture that speaks of a "Gentile believer"? Then I can "point" you, "to NT command where a Gentile believer is commanded to keep the Sabbath".

But even if I could without your help, it would be in vain I point it out to you, because you are DEAF for the Word of God that throughout the New Testament DO speak loud and clear for the believing and willing to obey ear under grace, that "If Jesus had given them Rest, there THEREFORE REMAINS valid for the People of God a keeping of the Sabbath Day, He having entered into his own Rest as God in his Own."
 

Gerhard Ebersoehn

Active Member
Site Supporter
For me and for the Truth I believe of God, my Holy Command to ‘keep holy’ and “FEAST” "The Seventh Day Sabbath of the LORD your God", God speaking to ME, is the Word of New Testament Scripture, that "God thus concerning the Seventh Day spake: And God the Seventh Day from all his works, RESTED", IN AND THROUGH JESUS CHRIST IN AND THROUGH RESURRECTION FROM THE DEAD "IN THE SABBATH, DAY'S FULLNESS".

... for me it is my only and final word of many more possible, WHY I BELIEVE GOD'S WORD "concerning the Seventh Day" and "Sabbath of the LORD your God", "SPOKEN", "THUS" : _BY “GOD”_!
 
Last edited by a moderator:

DHK

<b>Moderator</b>
GE, this is your answer to me:
But even if I could without your help, it would be in vain I point it out to you, because you are DEAF for the Word of God that throughout the New Testament DO speak loud and clear for the believing and willing to obey ear under grace, that "If Jesus had given them Rest, there THEREFORE REMAINS valid for the People of God a keeping of the Sabbath Day, He having entered into his own Rest as God in his Own."
Notice the accusations, the personal attacks.
1. It would be in vain.
2. You are deaf.
3. The word of God speaks to the believing (and not the deaf?), a reference that I am not saved.

This is uncalled for.
I gave you a challenge to give me just one command in the NT that commands the Gentile believer to keep the Sabbath.
--Your answer:
Even if I could...
That is a free admission that you cannot.
You have admitted that you cannot show me a commandment that commands believers to keep the Sabbath, then because you couldn't you went on and attacked my character and called me deaf and unsaved. You have clearly lost all credibility on this board. In fact with posts like this you shouldn't even be allowed to post IMO.
 

Gerhard Ebersoehn

Active Member
Site Supporter
DHK, you entered this conversation with your hackneyed arguments obviously with the intent to elicit the personal attacks. I have waited for you to grab the occasion to catch me in your web. I am not the least surprised. Or caught off guard. What is INEVITABLE IS INEVITABLE: YOU GOT WHAT YOU WANTED. You got me!

...and I got you. It worked out EXACTLY as I planned, too, see.
 

Darrell C

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Originally Posted by Darrell C
I would say yes...by implication, anyway. But it would depend on how one interprets observance, from a limited Old Testament perspective, or from a perspective where New Testament revelation defines obedience as a spiritual matter, rather than that which is more ritualistic.

Exodus 20:10 (King James Version)

10But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:


Hello DHK, the answer given in no way imposes sabbath keeping upon New Covenant believers.

What was asked was concerning gentiles. While the commandment was most definitely given to Israel, gentiles who dwelt among them were not permitted to "work" on the Sabbath, and in that way, as I said before, depending upon how you view obsevance, they were compelled to "keep the Sabbath."





This command was given only to the Israelites.

As shown in the above verse, Exodus 20:10, it would seem that those who associated with the Jews were expected to keep the Sabbath as well.


It is the only one not repeated in the NT. There is no direct command anywhere in the NT for the believer to keep the Sabbath.


Speak thou also unto the children of Israel, saying, Verily my sabbaths ye shall keep: for it is a sign between me and you throughout your generations; that ye may know that I am the LORD that doth sanctify you. (Exodus 31:13)
--The Sabbath was a sign between Israel and their generations forever; not for the NT believer.

Ye shall keep the sabbath therefore; for it is holy unto you: every one that defileth it shall surely be put to death: for whosoever doeth any work therein, that soul shall be cut off from among his people. (Exodus 31:14)
YE--

While it may be the only one "not repeated in the New Testament," surely the reverse is not implied? That the New Testament believer must "keep all the other commandments?"


(The Israelites) were to keep the Sabbath. No one else is ever commanded. And no one else would be commanded to be put to death for breaking it. It was only for the Israelites.

Would you care to explain Exodus 20:10?


Wherefore the children of Israel shall keep the sabbath, to observe the sabbath throughout their generations, for a perpetual covenant. (Exodus 31:16)
--It was for the Israelites and their generations forever, for a perpetual covenant, not for the NT believer,

Agreed.


not for any Gentile believer.

Except those who happened to be "within their gates?"


It is a sign between me and the children of Israel for ever: for in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he rested, and was refreshed. (Exodus 31:17)
--Emphatically, it is a sign between Jehovah and the children of Israel forever; not between Jehovah and anyone else.

This chapter makes it very clear what the purpose of the sabbath was for. It was for the Israelites, as a sign, a perpetual covenant, and not for anyone else.
[/SIZE]

I am out of time today in my forum rounds, but I will go back and examine my post to see how it is worded.

That I have given the impression that I believe that New Covenant believers have to keep the Sabbath is something that perplexes me.

The question asked about gentiles, to which I gave my answer.

Understand that concerning the Levitical Economy, I do not see obligation given to those of the New Covenant to observe the law. Whether they are repeated in the New Testament or not.

Neither am I saying that the life of the Christian is in opposition to the law, but, that probably should be left for another time.

God bless.
 

DHK

<b>Moderator</b>
Hello DHK, the answer given in no way imposes sabbath keeping upon New Covenant believers.

What was asked was concerning gentiles. While the commandment was most definitely given to Israel, gentiles who dwelt among them were not permitted to "work" on the Sabbath, and in that way, as I said before, depending upon how you view obsevance, they were compelled to "keep the Sabbath."
In the OT, under the law; not in the NT, not under grace or in this Church age.
As shown in the above verse, Exodus 20:10, it would seem that those who associated with the Jews were expected to keep the Sabbath as well.
We are not associated with the Jews. In fact if a Jew becomes a Christian he forsakes his Jewish religion and becomes a believer in Christ and worships on the same day that those believers worship on, which normally would be on a Sunday. It is the Jew that must accommodate to the customs of the Christians, not the Christians to the Jews.
The Bible says of all believers (Jews and Gentiles):
"Forsake not the assembling of yourselves together as the manner of some is."
--The idea here is, as the manner of the local church assembles so you assemble with them, whether they assemble on Sunday, or Tuesday, or whenever they assemble.
While it may be the only one "not repeated in the New Testament," surely the reverse is not implied? That the New Testament believer must "keep all the other commandments?"
When one of those commands is specifically reserved for Israel we are not obliged to keep it; we never were.
Would you care to explain Exodus 20:10?
What is there to explain?
The Sabbath is Saturday BTW. It always has been. That can never change for it is the last day of the week "and on the seventh day God rested." This command was not given to Gentile believers--those who took Christ as their Savior. It was a command given to Israel and Israel only.
Except those who happened to be "within their gates?"
Those withing the gates of Israel. What has that to do with the NT Christianity??
I am out of time today in my forum rounds, but I will go back and examine my post to see how it is worded.

That I have given the impression that I believe that New Covenant believers have to keep the Sabbath is something that perplexes me.

The question asked about gentiles, to which I gave my answer.

Understand that concerning the Levitical Economy, I do not see obligation given to those of the New Covenant to observe the law. Whether they are repeated in the New Testament or not.

Neither am I saying that the life of the Christian is in opposition to the law, but, that probably should be left for another time.

God bless.
Here is what the NT says about God's moral law:

For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves: Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another;) (Romans 2:14-15)

All men, saved and unsaved alike, do by nature the things contained in the law. The law is written in their hearts. They also have a conscience to tell them when they have done wrong.

This holds true no matter where you go in this world--Africa, South America, Asia, etc. All mankind knows it is wrong to steal, murder, commit adultery, etc. Those are the commands written in the Ten Commandments. They know that intuitively, except for one command: Thou shalt keep holy the Sabbath Day. No one anywhere regards that as part of the moral law. Go to the tribal regions of Africa. They know it is wrong to murder and steal. But to keep holy the sabbath day, that is just ridiculous to them. It is not part of the moral law; rather a specific law given to the nation of Israel as per, Exodus 31.
 

Gerhard Ebersoehn

Active Member
Site Supporter
I..............................
Here is what the NT says about God's moral law:

For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves: Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another;) (Romans 2:14-15)

All men, saved and unsaved alike, do by nature the things contained in the law. The law is written in their hearts. They also have a conscience to tell them when they have done wrong.

This holds true no matter where you go in this world--Africa, South America, Asia, etc. All mankind knows it is wrong to steal, murder, commit adultery, etc. Those are the commands written in the Ten Commandments. They know that intuitively, except for one command: Thou shalt keep holy the Sabbath Day. No one anywhere regards that as part of the moral law. Go to the tribal regions of Africa. They know it is wrong to murder and steal. But to keep holy the sabbath day, that is just ridiculous to them. It is not part of the moral law; rather a specific law given to the nation of Israel as per, Exodus 31.



GE:

I am a Calvinist and I have respect for the Reformed Faith. Now I am acquainted with the best of the champions and their works of this Faith. Therefore this I can state categorically, that it is CONTRARY Reformed Protestant Faith to allege that Paul in Romans "Romans 2:14-15", refers to God's "moral law".

In fact, Paul means the 'law of nature', man's nature, specifically --- which, for example, excludes "by nature", worship of the Living Triune God revealed through Jesus Christ.

And in fact, Paul makes it unambiguously clear, that man, by doing the 'natural law' supposed in "Romans 2:14-15", SHALL THEREBY DIE, AND NOT FIND REDEMPTION, EVER.

So, "when the Gentiles, which have NOT the law" --- the 'moral' and ONLY 'Law' God ever has had --- "do by nature the things contained in the law" --- they do have, the 'law' of their own conscience and promptings --- "these ... GENTILES ... having NOT the law" --- God's Law --- “ARE A LAW UNTO THEMSELVES" --- they ARE not nor do they HAVE the ‘moral law’ of God --- “: Which SHEW (IN FACT AND REALITY) the work of the law (which is) written in their (OWN WICKED) hearts, their (own tarnished and totally depraved nature and) conscience also bearing witness (AGAINST THEM), and their (only and always SINFUL) thoughts the mean while ACCUSING or else EXCUSING one another (thought)"— REGARDLESS, They “shall surely DIE” by the judgment of God's, ‘moral law’! "FOR AS MANY AS SINNED WITHOUT THE LAW (OF GOD) SHALL ALSO PERISH WITHOUT LAW!" There's no way they with OR WITHOUT the 'natural law' they do dispose of, shall LIVE.


 

Gerhard Ebersoehn

Active Member
Site Supporter


"But God be thanked..." FOR WHAT?!

"...that ye were the servants of : SIN..."! HOW COME?!

"...but ye have obeyed FROM THE HEART..."! WHAT?!

"...that FORM OF DOCTRINE which was delivered you..." HOW?!

"Being then made FREE FROM SIN, ye became the servants of..." WHAT?!

"...RIGHTEOUSNESS..." : "THE LORD OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS" ... by the LORD OUR LAW!!

 
Last edited by a moderator:

Darrell C

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Hello DHK, I am posting this again for you to examine. I myself have re-examined what I wrote and can see nothing that suggests sabbath keeping for believers today, nor where another member comes to the conclusion that I am a sabbatarian.

A few notes along the way.

First, I again remind you that your question asked "if there was a command for Gentiles, not Christians, were commanded anywhere to observe the Sabbath."

Please examine this again.

I would say yes...by implication, anyway.

If the entire post was read, the conclusion that I am a sabbatarian would not have been reached.


But it would depend on how one interprets observance, from a limited Old Testament perspective, or from a perspective where New Testament revelation defines obedience as a spiritual matter, rather than that which is more ritualistic.

I think you would agree that keeping the law for many before the Cross was a ritualistic endeavor (as it is today) that was accomplished in outward motions that were not accompanied by the heart of the "observers."

My point here is that like those who worshipped thus, the "stranger" of Exodus 20:10 was compelled to do no work on the Sabbath, and in that way, he "observed" the Sabbath.

As I said in the opening statement, it was by implication, not a direct command to gentiles.

Furthermore, as is the case with all of God's Law, it was for the benefit of the stranger, not for the purpose of exercising authority:

Exodus 23:12 (King James Version)

12Six days thou shalt do thy work, and on the seventh day thou shalt rest: that thine ox and thine ass may rest, and the son of thy handmaid, and the stranger, may be refreshed.







Exodus 20:10 (King James Version)

10But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:

Within the congregation, the stranger (and I think it a reference to a foreigner) was forbidden also from doing work.

Does this mean they observed the Sabbath? By an indirect command they were to do no work, that they might have rest, and, I think, that the Jew be not offended, but...in no way does this mean they kept this day holy.

That is my definition of "observing" the Sabbath.

Today, many "observe" the Sabbath in like manner, not working, perhaps resting, but the question is...do they keep it holy?

You would probably agree that every day belongs to the Lord, and we should keep every day holy unto the Lord, and I, for one, admit that I am not perfect in that. But, my belief is that every day belongs to the Lord, and I try to be the same Christian all week long.


What is interesting though, is, though they were expected to observe this, consider:

Now this may have thrown you, I will admit.

This refers to the following passage (Ex. 12:43-49), not to the one above, and I would just like to clarify that now.



Exodus 12:43-49 (King James Version)

43And the LORD said unto Moses and Aaron, This is the ordinance of the passover: There shall no stranger eat thereof:


44But every man's servant that is bought for money, when thou hast circumcised him, then shall he eat thereof.


45A foreigner and an hired servant shall not eat thereof.


46In one house shall it be eaten; thou shalt not carry forth ought of the flesh abroad out of the house; neither shall ye break a bone thereof.


47All the congregation of Israel shall keep it.


48And when a stranger shall sojourn with thee, and will keep the passover to the LORD, let all his males be circumcised, and then let him come near and keep it; and he shall be as one that is born in the land: for no uncircumcised person shall eat thereof.


The reason I brought this out is this: notice that circumcision is required of the stranger that would keep the passover.

This sign truly, in specificity, predates even the command to keep the Sabbath holy, and that is just my personal opinion, let that be known. While God rested on the seventh day, and this is given as commentary when the law was given, circumcision was given before the law.

What is significant about that is this: circumcision is directly refuted as an obligation of the New Covenant believer, and if this sign, which very much includes gentiles before the Cross is refuted, seeing that through Abraham the nations would be blessed, why do those who seek to teach sabbath-keeping not also impose circumcision upon believers?

Because it is so directly addressed.

The Sabbath also, being part of the law, is also directly addressed by the writer of Hebrews.


49One law shall be to him that is homeborn, and unto the stranger that sojourneth among you.
Predating the law, observance of the Passover was allowed only for those who underwent circumcision, which also predated the law.

A glorious fact concerning Passover is that gentiles were not excluded. They were to be circumcised, but not excluded. There is one law for both the homeborn and the stranger.

So, one could say that "gentiles" were commanded to observe the Sabbath, though, it would be a matter of the proselyte, rather than a general or even a direct command to the gentile population.

I hope you better see what it is I am saying in response to your question.

It could be answered yes or no, depending, as I said at the beginning, upon how you view "observance."


However, in light of the discussion at hand, keeping in mind that all physical acts of that day (both before and during) were meant to figure the reality of Christ, and the fulfillment of what they looked forward to, we can easily separate them from the obligations that are associated with the people of God today.

At least two things have been charged to me which were not true:

1) That no-one is arguing keeping the law (except Dr. Walter and I)...as I said before, that is why I joined this conversation.

Those who teach sabbath-keeping are, in my view, teaching contrary to New Testament doctrine. Imposition of keeping the sabbath, though, has a converse...forbidding to keep the Sabbath.

If one chooses to worship on saturday, that is between he and God. But that is where it should stay. What someone feels about the particular day I worship really has no impact on that day, or days.

2)That I am a sabbatarian.


At least, that is the impression I have gotten from the content of this thread.

God bless.

Again, I joined this thread due to what I felt was an imposition of law, the error of the Judaizers that Paul contended with.

God bless.
 

DHK

<b>Moderator</b>
At least two things have been charged to me which were not true:

1) That no-one is arguing keeping the law (except Dr. Walter and I)...as I said before, that is why I joined this conversation.

Those who teach sabbath-keeping are, in my view, teaching contrary to New Testament doctrine. Imposition of keeping the sabbath, though, has a converse...forbidding to keep the Sabbath.

If one chooses to worship on saturday, that is between he and God. But that is where it should stay. What someone feels about the particular day I worship really has no impact on that day, or days.

2)That I am a sabbatarian.

Again, I joined this thread due to what I felt was an imposition of law, the error of the Judaizers that Paul contended with.

God bless.
Simple worship on a Saturday is not equivalent to "keeping the Sabbath." Keeping the Sabbath meant absolutely no work from sundown on Friday to sundown on Saturday. Before that time on Friday all foods had to be prepared before time. In our day and age all things like coffee and tea would have to be prepared before time and put into thermoses. The preparation of any food or drink on the Sabbath is against the Law. That is keeping the Sabbath.

Remember the one who was stoned simply for gathering sticks on the Sabbath? Why was he stoned. Gathering sticks was a type of work. The sticks were for fuel. Since they couldn't light any fires it is probable that you wouldn't be able to turn on your furnaces, lights or use your electricity. That is keeping the Sabbath. Follow the evidence given in the Bible. NO WORK! And nothing that is perceived as work--like turning on a light switch--the equivalent of lighting a fire.

It was a day of complete rest. Find out what that means in the Bible. I don't think that anyone in our society, including the SDA's will follow the observances that God laid out for the Israelites in keeping the Sabbath Day.

Once a person lives in a third world country where in rural places some people have no electricity, one sees how these things were possible to do. I have had that experience. But most people in North America, can't even imagine it.
 

Gerhard Ebersoehn

Active Member
Site Supporter
Simple worship on a Saturday is not equivalent to "keeping the Sabbath." Keeping the Sabbath meant absolutely no work from sundown on Friday to sundown on Saturday. Before that time on Friday all foods had to be prepared before time. In our day and age all things like coffee and tea would have to be prepared before time and put into thermoses. The preparation of any food or drink on the Sabbath is against the Law. That is keeping the Sabbath.

Remember the one who was stoned simply for gathering sticks on the Sabbath? Why was he stoned. Gathering sticks was a type of work. The sticks were for fuel. Since they couldn't light any fires it is probable that you wouldn't be able to turn on your furnaces, lights or use your electricity. That is keeping the Sabbath. Follow the evidence given in the Bible. NO WORK! And nothing that is perceived as work--like turning on a light switch--the equivalent of lighting a fire.

It was a day of complete rest. Find out what that means in the Bible. I don't think that anyone in our society, including the SDA's will follow the observances that God laid out for the Israelites in keeping the Sabbath Day.

Once a person lives in a third world country where in rural places some people have no electricity, one sees how these things were possible to do. I have had that experience. But most people in North America, can't even imagine it.


GE:
How far is this painted picture of legalistic Sabbath-view, removed from the "Sabbaths' Feast", of "the Body of Christ's Own" in Colossians 2:12-19! --- far removed, because the first impression is formed from arbitrary selected extractions from the history of a rebellious and stiff-necked people, while ignoring the latter impression— that of the worship “in eating and drinking of Sabbaths’ Feast” of the Christian Congregation because of Christ’s Triumph over death and grave, in a hostile “world” under the “dominion of darkness”.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top