Col.2{16}

[DHK]

GE:
How far is this painted picture of legalistic Sabbath-view, removed from the "Sabbaths' Feast", of "the Body of Christ's Own" in Colossians 2:12-19! --- far removed, because the first impression is formed from arbitrary selected extractions from the history of a rebellious and stiff-necked people, while ignoring the latter impression— that of the worship “in eating and drinking of Sabbaths’ Feast” of the Christian Congregation because of Christ’s Triumph over death and grave, in a hostile “world” under the “dominion of darkness”.

Your post shows how ignorant you are about the Sabbath. Either you observe the Sabbath Biblically or you don't observe it at all. My guess is that you don't observe it at all. You simply attach some legalistic observances to your worship service and falsely call it observing the Sabbath. You have deceived yourself.

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

This New Testament impression of the “Sabbaths’-feasting” “Body of Christ’s Own” is found again in the Gospels written long after Paul’s Letter, only in the Gospels the Body is represented in its Lord and “HEAD”. How did Jesus revel in doing good on God’s Sabbath Day! And how free were his followers as they walked through the corn-fields, and reaped, and ate, and were merry. So also with sinner-friends, as all were served at table “on the Sabbath”, and ate and drank in the presence of the Bread and Water of Life in Person, “Sabbaths’ … as was his custom”.

But it is insisted on: “give me just one command in the NT that commands the Gentile believer to keep the Sabbath”… THEN WHAT? WOULD FAITH FOLLOW? SEEING IS BELIEVING!

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

‘To rest on the Sabbath’ means to do God’s Will of the Sabbath – unconditionally. For example, When God ordered Joshua and the People to wage war on the Sabbath Day, the people ‘rested’ in that they waged war on the Sabbath Day.

So when Jehoiada had Athaliah KILLED on the Sabbath Day, he both obeyed the Sixth Commandment and the Fourth Commandment, and “MADE COVENANT THAT THEY SHOULD BE THE LORD’S PEOPLE!”

God’s WORD is ‘Law’; and if his Living Word is the direct breaking and opposite of the Law engraved in stone, God’s LIVING WORD has preference, despite to us mortals it may sound in conflict …. even with our own conscience.

To rest God’s Sabbath Day DOES NOT MEAN DOING NOTHING; LEAST FOR GOD HIMSELF, WHO, by “the EXCEEDING GREATNESS (UTMOST) OF HIS POWER WHICH HE WORKED … WHEN HE RAISED CHRIST FROM THE DEAD”— “and from all the works of God : the Seventh Day : RESTED!” Ephesians 1:19 Hebrews 4:4.

 

[DHK]

This New Testament impression of the “Sabbaths’-feasting” “Body of Christ’s Own” is found again in the Gospels written long after Paul’s Letter, only in the Gospels the Body is represented in its Lord and “HEAD”. How did Jesus revel in doing good on God’s Sabbath Day! And how free were his followers as they walked through the corn-fields, and reaped, and ate, and were merry. So also with sinner-friends, as all were served at table “on the Sabbath”, and ate and drank in the presence of the Bread and Water of Life in Person, “Sabbaths’ … as was his custom”.

You are very much confused.
There is only ONE Sabbath Day. Only one. That day was an OT observance. It was observed only by the Jews. It was observed by Jews and Jews alone, and for the strangers (or proselytes) that entered into their gates. If you tell me what tribe you are from your arguments might have more credence with me. But I know you are not a Jew.

There is no command in the NT anywhere for a Gentile believer to "observe the Sabbath Day."
"The Sabbath Day is not Christ.
The Sabbath Day is Saturday, the seventh day of the week, and that is all.
To keep the Sabbath day holy after the manner of the Jews takes much preparation and following a strict manner of laws as outlined in the OT, which I daresay few people in North America, and most other countries are willing to follow.

But it is insisted on: “give me just one command in the NT that commands the Gentile believer to keep the Sabbath”… THEN WHAT? WOULD FAITH FOLLOW? SEEING IS BELIEVING!

You can't give me one command can you? You fail.
Seeing what? Seeing you fail to give me an example of such a command?
Yes you fail. You fail in giving such a command. There is no command that any believer should keep the observance of the Sabbath Day, and you have miserably failed in demonstrating this.

 

[DHK]

‘To rest on the Sabbath’ means to do God’s Will of the Sabbath – unconditionally. For example, When God ordered Joshua and the People to wage war on the Sabbath Day, the people ‘rested’ in that they waged war on the Sabbath Day.

So when Jehoiada had Athaliah KILLED on the Sabbath Day, he both obeyed the Sixth Commandment and the Fourth Commandment, and “MADE COVENANT THAT THEY SHOULD BE THE LORD’S PEOPLE!”

God’s WORD is ‘Law’; and if his Living Word is the direct breaking and opposite of the Law engraved in stone, God’s LIVING WORD has preference, despite to us mortals it may sound in conflict …. even with our own conscience.

To rest God’s Sabbath Day DOES NOT MEAN DOING NOTHING; LEAST FOR GOD HIMSELF, WHO, by “the EXCEEDING GREATNESS (UTMOST) OF HIS POWER WHICH HE WORKED … WHEN HE RAISED CHRIST FROM THE DEAD”— “and from all the works of God : the Seventh Day : RESTED!” Ephesians 1:19 Hebrews 4:4.

Are you totally ignorant of the laws of keeping the Sabbath day; of the observance of the Sabbath Day? Really?
Why was a boy stoned for simply gathering sticks on the Sabbath Day?
You don't know?
What a pity!

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

I fail, obviously; God's Word does not fail.

Were the Gospels and Acts and Paul's Letters written 'AD', or, BC? well, if AD, I think it's about 69 cases you'll find 'Sabbath", 'AD'.

But I see through you, DHK. You're only provoking me again; but I won't fall for you, this time.

And what if I were a Jew? I was told in Germany Ebersohn's with no Umlaut, were regarded Jews; so my great great great grandpa gave our Surname an Umlaut -- to fool the fascists. So I may just as well have been a Jew; and so it is with God as well. The Revelation of God of Himself unto salvation was unto the salvation of SINNERS, as I have said above, Paul gives us command to THANK GOD for!

The Sabbath suits me BECAUSE I AM A SINNER; not because I may be a Jew.

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

Are you totally ignorant of the laws of keeping the Sabbath day; of the observance of the Sabbath Day? Really?
Why was a boy stoned for simply gathering sticks on the Sabbath Day?
You don't know?
What a pity!

GE:

There was no such thing as "a boy stoned for simply gathering sticks on the Sabbath Day". YOU SHOW ME THAT TEXT, BRAVE DHK! Just that one text! I challenge you.

You DO provoke me to anger; but shall not to madness!

 

[DHK]

I fail, obviously; God's Word does not fail.

Were the Gospels and Acts and Paul's Letters written 'AD', or, BC? well, if AD, I think it's about 69 cases you'll find 'Sabbath", 'AD'.

The command given by Jehovah through Moses to the nation of Israel to keep the Sabbath as holy unto the Lord, was given ca. 1440 B.C., or about 3,540 years ago. That is long before the NT was ever written. It was given to the nation of Israel, not to Gentile believers. The command was never given to Gentile Believers. According to Exodus 31 it is a sign of the covenant made between Jehovah and the nation of Israel and their generations forever; not for others. God's word does not fail. His word is true. His promises do not fail nor contradict each other. What he promised Israel in Exodus 31 still stands today, unless Christ is a liar. Which one?

And what if I were a Jew? I was told in Germany Ebersohn's with no Umlaut, were regarded Jews; so my great great great grandpa gave our Surname an Umlaut -- to fool the fascists. So I may just as well have been a Jew; and so it is with God as well.

No offense meant GE. I only asked to point out your logical fallacy. The observance of the Sabbath Day was a command given only to the nation of Israel. If that be true, and most assuredly it is, then what tribe of Israel are you from that you should lay claim to keep it?

The Revelation of God of Himself unto salvation was unto the salvation of SINNERS, as I have said above, Paul gives us command to THANK GOD for!

What revelation? I have asked but you have not provided. I ask for chapter and verse and you cannot provide any. Provide me with chapter and verse where the Gentile believer is commanded to keep the Sabbath Day observance. This you will not do. And then you bluster on that God has commanded us to do so, but you cannot produce one text of Scripture that tells us that we need to.

The Sabbath suits me BECAUSE I AM A SINNER; not because I may be a Jew.

As sinners we are saved because of Christ, not because of the Sabbath.
If the Sabbath suits you because you are a sinner, then you are going down the wrong road. Salvation is through Christ alone. The Sabbath is totally irrelevant.

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

My son who is working in Dallas since recently tells me there are greater traffic jams on Sundays than during any working days, the people are so great SUNDAY-GO-TO-MEETINGers. Maybe if Americans could feel the quiet of a bushveld Sabbath Day, like I grew up with. Thank God for my 'back-bush' upbringing; thank God for my Seventh-day Adventist parents. I pray God, may we soon on the New Earth again celebrate and feast Sabbaths— with Christ ... NO DIFFERENCES THAT SURVIVED JUDGMENT DAY!

 

[DHK]

GE:

There was no such thing as "a boy stoned for simply gathering sticks on the Sabbath Day". YOU SHOW ME THAT TEXT, BRAVE DHK! Just that one text! I challenge you.

You DO provoke me to anger; but shall not to madness!

And while the children of Israel were in the wilderness, they found a man that gathered sticks upon the sabbath day. And they that found him gathering sticks brought him unto Moses and Aaron, and unto all the congregation. And they put him in ward, because it was not declared what should be done to him. And the LORD said unto Moses, The man shall be surely put to death: all the congregation shall stone him with stones without the camp. And all the congregation brought him without the camp, and stoned him with stones, and he died; as the LORD commanded Moses. (Numbers 15:32-36)

Did I use the word "boy"? I meant man.
The principle is the same. The man was stoned for gathering sticks on the Sabbath Day. The "male person" was stoned.

 

[DHK]

My son who is working in Dallas since recently tells me there are greater traffic jams on Sundays than during any working days, the people are so great SUNDAY-GO-TO-MEETINGers. Maybe if Americans could feel the quiet of a bushveld Sabbath Day, like I grew up with. Thank God for my 'back-bush' upbringing; thank God for my Seventh-day Adventist parents. I pray God, may we soon on the New Earth again celebrate and feast Sabbaths— with Christ ... NO DIFFERENCES THAT SURVIVED JUDGMENT DAY!

Sunday is not the Sabbath.
And if traffic jams are caused by crowds of people going to church, then praise God!

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

I have never in my life seen a more beautiful illustration of irony ... or satire? : "No offense meant GE. I only asked to point out your logical fallacy." ... No ill feelings, DHK!

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

And while the children of Israel were in the wilderness, they found a man that gathered sticks upon the sabbath day. And they that found him gathering sticks brought him unto Moses and Aaron, and unto all the congregation. And they put him in ward, because it was not declared what should be done to him. And the LORD said unto Moses, The man shall be surely put to death: all the congregation shall stone him with stones without the camp. And all the congregation brought him without the camp, and stoned him with stones, and he died; as the LORD commanded Moses. (Numbers 15:32-36)

Did I use the word "boy"? I meant man.
The principle is the same. The man was stoned for gathering sticks on the Sabbath Day. The "male person" was stoned.

GE:

'Boy''s not the word; 'simply', dear DHK, is the word!

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

.............
What revelation? I have asked but you have not provided. I ask for chapter and verse and you cannot provide any. Provide me with chapter and verse where the Gentile believer is commanded to keep the Sabbath Day observance. This you will not do. And then you bluster on that God has commanded us to do so, but you cannot produce one text of Scripture that tells us that we need to.
....................

GE:

Yes, Master Legalist, DHK.

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

..............
As sinners we are saved because of Christ, not because of the Sabbath.
If the Sabbath suits you because you are a sinner, then you are going down the wrong road. Salvation is through Christ alone. The Sabbath is totally irrelevant.

GE:

I have not claimed, ever, "we are saved ... because of the Sabbath"; that's you saying.

The Sabbath suits me because I am a sinner-member of the Body that is Christ's on earth, still, until He shall come again. Until then, the Sabbath BY THE WILL OF GOD suits me because I am a sinner.

"Going down the wrong road" is going down Sunday-Road nowhere in the Bible found a map of.

The Sabbath is absolutely relevant exactly for a rejoicing, feasting and worshipping Body-of-Believers in their suffering, groaning and longing after God and the Communion of the faithful. God knows what He is doing; we cannot do better than him.

 

[DHK]

GE:

'Boy''s not the word; 'simply', dear DHK, is the word!

This is now post #236. Back in post #225 I asked you this question:

Are you totally ignorant of the laws of keeping the Sabbath day; of the observance of the Sabbath Day? Really?
Why was a man [edit made] stoned for simply gathering sticks on the Sabbath Day?
You don't know?
What a pity!

Instead of answering the question you felt the need to nit pick. I am sure if you could have corrected commas and colons you would have, but you found that when I (quoting from memory) used the word "boy" instead of "man" you found fault, and reason, to avoid answering the post. This is pitiful. It is not debate, but the avoidance thereof.

You know little of the observance of the Sabbath, do you?
You don't know what all is entailed in preparation for observing the Sabbath as outlined throughout the books of Exodus, Leviticus, and Deuteronomy.
And even if you studied thoroughly those books, chances are that you wouldn't be willing to keep all that is required to observe in "keeping the Sabbath holy." It is too much for you to bear. In fact, ironically, on a day of rest, it would be too much "work" for you to observe "this day of rest," if you were to observe it like the Israelites were commanded to.

You don't study your Bible. You simply want to keep "the traditions of men," those traditions that Christ condemned.

 

[DHK]

GE:

I have not claimed, ever, "we are saved ... because of the Sabbath"; that's you saying.

The Sabbath suits me because I am a sinner-member of the Body that is Christ's on earth, still, until He shall come again. Until then, the Sabbath BY THE WILL OF GOD suits me because I am a sinner. [/SIZE]

You should join the discussion in the thread "doctrines of demons" 1Tim.4:1-5.
Here is the gist of it:

Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron; Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth. (1 Timothy 4:1-3)

Notice that some (some churches having false teachers) will teach doctrines of demons.
In verse 3 two examples are given:
--forbidding members to marry, as they do in the RCC (those entering the priesthood).
--commanding member to abstain from certain foods (as the SDA does in telling their members to follow the Levitical diet and abstain from pork).

Both of these are doctrines of demons. They are examples of doctrines of demons. They are not the only doctrines of demons. There are others. A doctrine of demons is when a church exercises authority over its members that is not Biblical.
Commanding them not to marry.
Commanding them to abstain from certain foods.
Commanding them to worship only on a certain day.

The latter also falls into the same group. It is the church commanding its members to do something that is not Biblical.

I am a missionary. I teach others to be pastors in other third world nations. The harvest is great but the laborers are few. Sometimes one pastor must pastor 3 to 5 churches. How is it possible? He goes to one church on Sunday, then to another on Monday, and another on Tuesday, etc.
It was very much like the circuit riding preacher in America in the 19th century and even into the early 20th century. They held their service on whatever day the preacher got there. One day was no holier than any other day.

If your church commands that one day (the Sabbath Day) is holier than all other days, and that is the day that we MUST worship than they also are teaching a doctrine of demons. They are standing on dangerous ground. They are teaching false doctrine and need to repent of this foolishness.

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

......................
If your church commands that one day (the Sabbath Day) is holier than all other days, and that is the day that we MUST worship than they also are teaching a doctrine of demons. They are standing on dangerous ground. They are teaching false doctrine and need to repent of this foolishness.

GE:

'My Church' is 'Sabbaths' Feast of Christ Assemblies' --- membership : unknown, I believe, Jesus Christ the Head, and Gerhard Ebersoehn and other members known to God only, the Body; NOT "many, but few, chosen", "where two or three come together in My Name" the Name of our Lord and God Jesus Christ. The last day will reveal the full number of 'my', Church. Thank, and praise, God, for it.

I, and us, have peace with the rest of the world and other Churches.

'My Church' do NOT believe in 'missionary work'. Thank God, and praise his Name, "For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid which is Jesus Christ", Paul said, "I have laid", and Jesus Christ commanded the other apostles to lay.

Therefore 'my Church' do not baptise with water, nor take money or gifts, or touch currency on Sabbaths or other days.

These : four in number, are the 'differences' 'my Church' have with our brethren in Jesus Christ the Protestant Church from the Reformation.

Anyone who by grace happens to believe in Jesus Christ like the Father like the Holy Spirit One God, is welcome to feast with "Sabbaths' eating and drinking" of Jesus Christ spiritually by faith, for He rose from the dead, "In fullness of the Sabbath Day" as God in Christ "from all his works, the Seventh Day, rested."


Therewith I shall for some time be absent from this forum, and shall return God willing after I have updated my website.

For that reason, please accept the bold print.

God be with you all, BaptistBoard brothers and sisters in Jesus Christ.

 

[Dr. Walter]

GE:

'My Church' is 'Sabbaths' Feast of Christ Assemblies' --- membership : unknown, I believe, Jesus Christ the Head, and Gerhard Ebersoehn and other members known to God only, the Body; NOT "many, but few, chosen", "where two or three come together in My Name" the Name of our Lord and God Jesus Christ. The last day will reveal the full number of 'my', Church. Thank, and praise, God, for it.

I, and us, have peace with the rest of the world and other Churches.

'My Church' do NOT believe in 'missionary work'. Thank God, and praise his Name, "For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid which is Jesus Christ", Paul said, "I have laid", and Jesus Christ commanded the other apostles to lay.

Therefore 'my Church' do not baptise with water, nor take money or gifts, or touch currency on Sabbaths or other days.

These : four in number, are the 'differences' 'my Church' have with our brethren in Jesus Christ the Protestant Church from the Reformation.

Anyone who by grace happens to believe in Jesus Christ like the Father like the Holy Spirit One God, is welcome to feast with "Sabbaths' eating and drinking" of Jesus Christ spiritually by faith, for He rose from the dead, "In fullness of the Sabbath Day" as God in Christ "from all his works, the Seventh Day, rested."


Therewith I shall for some time be absent from this forum, and shall return God willing after I have updated my website.

For that reason, please accept the bold print.

God be with you all, BaptistBoard brothers and sisters in Jesus Christ.

Jesus explicitly said that the Sabbath was made for "man" (lit. "the man" or "mankind"). He had reference to the creation Sabbath which the fourth commandment as far as a moral obligation conveys to man. The fourth commandment cannot be restricted to the Jew any more than the other nine can be restricted to the Jew.

However, the seventh day of the week application of the Sabbath law and the whole sabbatical cycle is restricted to the Jew and is the sign of the Old Covenant.

The first day of the week is the better sabbath day observance that is recognized and commanded in Hebrews 4:9. There is no possible way that Hebrews 4:9 can be interpreted to mean simply spiritual rest obtained by faith in Christ as that is what Hebrews 4:2-3 specifically addresses and which was obtained prior to the cross by all who believed in the Gospel and YET they observed a weekly sabbath. Therefore, the sabbath day observance that remains for gospel believers in Hebrews. 4:9 cannot possibly be restricted to spiritual rest entered by faith but is the weekly sabbath that still has not been fulfilled until we enter that yet future eternal rest (Heb. 4:11) that our Great High Priest has already entered (Heb. 4:14) that is like heaven where everything is in complete harmony with God and at rest.

 

[Dr. Walter]

Jesus explicitly said that the Sabbath was made for "man" (lit. "the man" or "mankind"). He had reference to the creation Sabbath which the fourth commandment as far as a moral obligation conveys to man. The fourth commandment cannot be restricted to the Jew any more than the other nine can be restricted to the Jew.

However, the seventh day of the week application of the Sabbath law and the whole sabbatical cycle is restricted to the Jew and is the sign of the Old Covenant.

The first day of the week is the better sabbath day observance that is recognized and commanded in Hebrews 4:9. There is no possible way that Hebrews 4:9 can be interpreted to mean simply spiritual rest obtained by faith in Christ as that is what Hebrews 4:2-3 specifically addresses and which was obtained prior to the cross by all who believed in the Gospel and YET they observed a weekly sabbath. Therefore, the sabbath day observance that remains for gospel believers in Hebrews. 4:9 cannot possibly be restricted to spiritual rest entered by faith but is the weekly sabbath that still has not been fulfilled until we enter that yet future eternal rest (Heb. 4:11) that our Great High Priest has already entered (Heb. 4:14) that is like heaven where everything is in complete harmony with God and at rest.

Mark 2:27 And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath:
28 Therefore the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath.

When God made the Sabbath there were no Jews. Mark 2:27 has the definite article in the Greek text and literally reads "the man" or mankind as represented in Adam and Eve. The Sabbath was made for mankind. Hence, there can be no restricting the sabbath merely to the Jews.


The Fourth commandment is no more restricted to the Jews than any of the other nine. These are all moral laws. True, the "seventh day" is not inherently moral law as there is nothing inherently moral about any 24 hour period of time more so than any other 24 hour period of time. Hence, the "seventh day" has no more inherent morality. What makes it moral obligation is God's direct command.

Furthermore, the fourth commandment never makes any day "of the week" the Sabbaths rest. It merely conveys the principle that one day in seven be observed as a Sabbath. However, it is true that there must be a practical application to our calendar and the jews applied it to the seventh day "of the week." The Egyptians applied it to Friday.

Moreover, the entire ceremonial sabbatical laws as seen in Levticus 23-25 are based upon the weekly Seventh day Jewish application (Lev. 23:2-3). Christ abolished the whole Jewish Sabbatical application as it was a special covenant application with Israel and not with the Gentiles.

The New Testament application of the fourth commandment is "the first day of the week" as one day out of seven and is a better sabbath observance (Heb. 4:9) than the Jewish application but the same principle remains - one day out of seven.

To argue that any day is as good as another is to repudiate the fourth commandment, repudiate the prophetic prediction of another Sabbath day in connection with the New Covenant (Lev. 23; Psa. 118:24 with Acts 4:10-11) as well as the practice of New Testament congregations (Acts 2:1; 20:7) based upon apostolic command (1 Cor. 16:1-2; Heb. 4:9) as the "Lord's Day" (Rev. 1:10) and to repudiate the universal understanding and application in the first three centuries.

In addition to deny the first day of the week Sabbath application is to reject the greatest Baptist confessions of faith in history (1689 London, Philadelphia Baptist Confession; The New Hampshire Confession). These three confessions represent the vast majority of Baptist congregations in England and America from 1600 to 1900's.