Col.2{16}

[Dr. Walter]

GE:

So, according to your line of 'thinking', Dr Walter, since the following texts

“use the NOUN form - "thesaurous" descriptive of the house of God …

"the earth" (Mt6:19),
"in heaven" (v.20), "himself" (Lk12:21),
"wrath" (Ro2:5),
"the parents" (2Cor12:14),
"the last days" (James 5:3) and
"fire" (2Pt3:7) …

and so on, like "Egypt", "field", "cracked earthen pots" ...

…ought to be "the house of God where tithes and offerings were brought and stored".


[/SIZE]

You may not like the fact that the noun is used in Malichi 3;10 and that Paul purposely uses it in its verb form in 1 Cor. 16:2 but that is your problem in trying to defend your heretical sabbath theory. The seventh day Sabbath is the sign of the Old Covenant and even you must admit the Old Covenant has been abolished and if it has been abolished so has its sign.

You may not like the fact that bringing your tithes and offerings to the house of God ON THE DAY OF WORSHIP was and still is an INSEPARABLE ACT OF PUBLIC WORSHIP toward God. Hence, I Cor. 16:1-2 proves that "the first day of the week" is THE LORD's DAY as it is ON the Lord's day public worship occurred and bringing and giving tithes and offerings at the house of God ON the Lord's Day was and is inseperable from TRUE PUBLIC WORSHIP!

 

[Dr. Walter]

your eisgetical comments are ludricous! Paul knows the term "oikou" and if if that were on his mind and would have used it here - BUT HE DID NOT! Tithes and offerings are a PERSONAL matter for each member of the congregaton and that is precisely how he addressed the congregation in regard to each member's person responsibility.

The Old Testament use of "store house" in the Jewish mind was inseparable from "the house of God" and Paul is addressing the new house of God at Corinth, as the congregation of Christ is "the house of God (1 Tim. 3:15). Bringing and giving ones tithes and offerings to God ON THE LORD'S DAY to the HOUSE OF GOD was and is inseparable from TRUE PUBLIC WORSHIP as it is an act of true public worship in God's House!

It is your heretical legalistic Old Covenant Sabbath view that clouds your mind so you cannot see the truth. You are waging Satan's battle not the Lords - Beware!

GE:

No! ‘thesauridzoh’ simply means what it is usually translated in 1Cor16:2, namely, “to save or store up”.

The text tells WHERE to ‘store up’:
“INDIVIDUALLY AT HOME”
=
“EACH ONE” ‘hekastos’
“OF you” ‘humohn’— Genitive; not Nominative!
“BY HIMSELF” ‘par heautohi’.

NOT IN “the house of God where tithes and offerings were brought and stored". You are directly contradicting and OPPOSING, the Apostle Paul, claiming, "1 Cor. 16:2 uses the verb form to define the action of bringing it to God's house."!

 

[Dr. Walter]

The fact moneys etc. were handled on the First Day of the week per se is proof the First Day was NOT the Christian Day of Worship Rest. NO such things belong to the Sabbath of the LORD your God WHICH IS DEDICATED TO "the LORD your God" unless MONEY is your god!

Please provide any factual data to support your statement that Sunday's were the appointed day money was handled in this manner? Giving your tithe ON the Lord's day IS PART OF TRUE BIBLICAL PUBLIC WORSHIP IN GOD's HOUSE!

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

T......................
You cannot find ONE TEXT that states that ANY CONGREGATION of Christ met on the Jewish Sabbath - NOT ONE!
...........................

GE:


Ja, TRUE! NOT ONE! In the New Testament especially, an ugly thing like "the Jewish Sabbath", does not exist!

Unfortunately the "Jewish Sabbath" is about all one finds among Christian Sabbatharians today. Which is VERY unhappy a thing and seriously to be repented of.

But the Scriptures do not know "the Jewish Sabbath" under the New Testament. "The Jewish Sabbath" can a few times be traced in the Old Testament; but not in the New— which says a lot for the “Sabbath of the LORD your God” in the New Testament and under the New Covenant the Eternal Covenant of Grace— “THE LORD’S DAY”:- the “Sabbath Day” Jesus Christ is “Lord of”, has always been “Lord of”, and for ever shall be “Lord of”— for “On the Sabbath Day” the Lord Jesus Christ fulfilled ALL the Word of God, that “God the Seventh Day from ALL his works, RESTED”— “rested”, in Christ, and through Him, and in Christ and through Christ “blessed the Sabbath”, and “sanctified it” and in it “FINISHED” … “finished” in, and “finished” through, RESURRECTION FROM THE DEAD: “SABBATH’S”! Halleluiah!

This kind of “Sabbath of the LORD your God”, is scarcely to be found today … true … so heart-sore … but true, nevertheless…

BUT IT DOES NOT JUSTIFY SUNDAY IDOLATRY WITH ALL ITS ACCOMPANYING SINS OF LYING AND CHEATING AND CORRUPTING THE SCRIPTURES!

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

Please provide any factual data to support your statement that Sunday's were the appointed day money was handled in this manner?

GE:

You have yourself answered brilliantly!

 

[Dr. Walter]

GE:

Strats is right, and Dr Walter, is 'wrong'.

In fact:

1) Acts 2:1 'Pentecost' fell on the Sabbath Day according to prophecy and all the Scriptures "GOD THUS CONCERNING THE SEVENTH DAY SPAKE". Hebrews 4:4. God NEVER “THUS” concerning the First Day of the week, “spake”!

Absolute falsehood!

Leviticus 23:15 ¶ And ye shall count unto you from the morrow after the sabbath, from the day that ye brought the sheaf of the wave offering; seven sabbaths shall be complete:
16 Even unto the morrow after the seventh sabbath shall ye number fifty days; and ye shall offer a new meat offering unto the LORD.

2) Acts 20:7 implies through Perfect Participle the initial 'gathering together',
happened on the Sabbath Day BEFORE,
…BECAUSE…

"HAVING BEEN ASSEMBLING ON THE FIRST DAY STILL,
Paul conversed with them ... until midnight..."

Hogwash! You know as well as I do that the perfect tense conveys a completed action in the past that stands completed right up to the present. This is conveying the habit of this congregation from its inception as a congregation right up to the present - It assembled on Sunday's from its inception as a congregation and continued assemblying on Sunday's right up to the present - customary habit.

3) 1Corinthians 16:2 ... The savings up of contributions to charity had to be
"calculated according to ability / prospering" 'ho ti e-an euodohtai'
"at home on one's own"
because on Sabbaths, the Congregations worshiped.

Absolute lie with no historical or Biblical basis whatsoever. Just as the congregation at Troas took a permenant position of Sunday assembling so did the congregation at Corinth as they were both established by the same Missionary - Paul! In the Old Testament, those who lived far from the Temple would save up their money at home and then ON THE SABBATH when they came to worship they brought all the money or tithes they had saved. Likewise, the members of the congregation at Corinth would save their money throughout the week and when they assembled ON the Lord's day - the first day of the week - they would bring their tithes and offerings.

By the way giving your tithes and offerings to the Lord IS PART OF WORSHIP on the Lord's day!

 

[Dr. Walter]

GE:


Ja, TRUE! NOT ONE! In the New Testament especially, an ugly thing like "the Jewish Sabbath", does not exist!

Unfortunately the "Jewish Sabbath" is about all one finds among Christian Sabbatharians today. Which is VERY unhappy a thing and seriously to be repented of.

But the Scriptures do not know "the Jewish Sabbath" under the New Testament. "The Jewish Sabbath" can a few times be traced in the Old Testament; but not in the New— which says a lot for the “Sabbath of the LORD your God” in the New Testament and under the New Covenant the Eternal Covenant of Grace— “THE LORD’S DAY”:- the “Sabbath Day” Jesus Christ is “Lord of”, has always been “Lord of”, and for ever shall be “Lord of”— for “On the Sabbath Day” the Lord Jesus Christ fulfilled ALL the Word of God, that “God the Seventh Day from ALL his works, RESTED”— “rested”, in Christ, and through Him, and in Christ and through Christ “blessed the Sabbath”, and “sanctified it” and in it “FINISHED” … “finished” in, and “finished” through, RESURRECTION FROM THE DEAD: “SABBATH’S”! Halleluiah!

This kind of “Sabbath of the LORD your God”, is scarcely to be found today … true … so heart-sore … but true, nevertheless…

BUT IT DOES NOT JUSTIFY SUNDAY IDOLATRY WITH ALL ITS ACCOMPANYING SINS OF LYING AND CHEATING AND CORRUPTING THE SCRIPTURES![/QUOTE]

Your Sabbath is the "JEWISH" Sabbath or SATURN day worship! No congregation of Jesus Christ can be found worshipping on SATURN day which is the "JEWISH" worship day!

You can only find Paul doing MISSIONARY work toward the Jews and Gentile Proselytes on SATURN day but SUNDAY is the Lord's (kuriakos) day and the day all congregations of Christ assembled habitually for worship (Acts 20:7; 1 Cor. 16:1-2) in order to offer up their TITHES and OFFERINGS as part of public worship!

 

[Dr. Walter]

GE:

You have yourself answered brilliantly!

How about being honest? You know very well I was making this comment concerning YOUR COMMENTARY on this not mine! Your COMMENTARY by design was to make the rediculous idea that Jews made Sunday the secular work day for handling money. If you had proof you would give it.

My commentary was about bringing and giving tithes ON the Lord's day IN the house of God as inseparable part of PUBLIC WORSHIP.

Try being honest, it is not only a virtue but a fruit of the Spirit!

 

[Dr. Walter]

GE:

Re: "1 Cor. 16:1-2 is a direct command to do this ......"

"......this......" referring to Strats,
“…with regard to anybody getting together on the first (day) of the week…”

So, Dr Walter is saying: "1 Cor. 16:1-2 is a direct command to...”, “…get together on the first (day) of the week".

Please show us, Dr Walter?

Giving tithes and offerings is inseparable from PUBLIC WORSHIP in God's House ON the Lord's Day. The LXX uses the noun form to describe God's House that Paul uses in the verb form in 1 Cor. 16:2 "store." The noun describes the House of God where tithes and offerings are given on the Lord's day as part of worship and where they are STORED and distributed by the priests. The verb describes the action of each individual bringing their offerings to God's house "on the first day of the week" when they assembled for worship so that the elders have possession of these to give to Paul when he comes. Instead of seeking out each individual member to obtain these offerings, this orderly way of bringing their offering to worship service on the first day of the week and giving it to the elders would effectively collect them and make it easier for Paul to obtain them by just meeting the eldership when he came to them. For example, in Acts 20 he met only the eldership of the church at Ephesus and such a collection would be in the possession of the elders when they met Paul.

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

.............
Quote:
Originally Posted by rstrats
The breaking of bread mentioned (even if it were referring to the Lord’s Supper) had nothing to do with placing a special emphasis on the first (day) because Acts 2:46 says that they broke bread every day.

Dr Walter:
Completely false. Paul planned his visit around the new Christian Sabbath as the text demands that Paul came to them "when" the disciples came together rather than "when" Paul came to them.
...............

GE:
What is this?: “Paul came to them "when" the disciples came together rather than "when" Paul came to them”?

Luke:
“Paul … came into Greece, and stayed there for three months. … And he planned to return (to Jerusalem) …There accompanied him into Asia, Sopater … Aristarchus … Secundus … Gaius … Timotheus … Tychicus and Trophimus. These GOING BEFORE TARRIED FOR US at Derbe. … And we (Paul and Luke) CAME UNTO THEM to Troas …”

Paul and Luke took “five days” to get from Greece around the Jews who “laid wait for him” (Paul) in Syria, “through Macedonia”, to Troas. In Troas “we (they all— nine persons) abode seven days”. Seven of them were in Troas therefore 12 days, it seems.

The last full day of their stay was a Sabbath, because Paul “departed” to Assos on the morning of the First Day of the week. Vv 7, 13.

IN THE EVENING OF THE FIRST DAY ('Saturday evening') the disciples “were being assembling STILL”— ‘sunehgmenohn’, a PERFECT Participle, meaning PRECISELY: “Us having had been assembling in the PAST FOR TO Break Bread us being assembling STILL in the PRESENT, Paul dialogued with them …”.

They all had been together the whole week already, coming and going. But on the last day they— or rather “us, had been assembling for Holy Communion and were being assembling STILL ON THE FIRST DAY”, and “Paul preached to them”.

Clearly the group celebrated the Lord’s Supper on the last Sabbath of their stay in Troas. What doubt can there be accept in the mind of the willing blind out of pure bias against the importance still attached by the New Testament Church to the Sabbath?

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gerhard Ebersoehn
........
1) Acts 2:1 'Pentecost' fell on the Sabbath Day according to prophecy and all the Scriptures "GOD THUS CONCERNING THE SEVENTH DAY SPAKE". Hebrews 4:4. God NEVER “THUS” concerning the First Day of the week, “spake”!

Absolute falsehood!

Leviticus 23:15 ¶ And ye shall count unto you from the morrow after the sabbath, from the day that ye brought the sheaf of the wave offering; seven sabbaths shall be complete:
16 Even unto the morrow after the seventh sabbath shall ye number fifty days; and ye shall offer a new meat offering unto the LORD.
.............................

GE:

The ‘sabbath’ here intended is defined right in place: “…the morrow after the sabbath, from the day that ye brought the sheaf…”.
“The day that ye brought the sheaf” was “the day (‘morrow’) after the sabbath” referred to. The sheaf was brought / harvested and “waved before the LORD” on the third day of the passover-season, “the sixteenth day” “cleansing” of the temple was “made an end of / finished”, 2Chronicles 29:17. “The day that ye brought the sheaf”, was actually, “the morrow / day after the sabbath”; “the sabbath” therefore having been “The-Feast-of-the-Passover” “the fifteenth day of the First Month” and “great-day-of-sabbath” of the passover. John 19:31.

These days irrespective indissolubly being LINKED to the DATE of the month, “which YE (the people and their priests) shall proclaim / appoint / determine in (or ‘according to’) THEIR, SEASONS”, IRREFUTABLE proves they were ‘typological’ or ‘ceremonial’ or ‘YEARLY’, ‘sabbaths’. Just like the ‘sabbath’ of the tenth day of the Seventh Month, the ‘great day of atonement’, ‘sabbath’.

Which no one has ever QUESTIONED or COULD question are ‘seasonal sabbaths’ that have NO relevance with “The Seventh Day : ‘Sabbath’, OF THE LORD GOD” and determined and proclaimed by HIM SOLELY, by own mandate and authority of His Divinity.

But here comes along one Dr Walter with authority above that of God Himself and proclaims the seasons’ ‘sabbaths’ SHALL BE THE LORD GOD’S, Sabbath. Yet at once this Dr Walter decided “The Seventh Day : ‘Sabbath’, OF THE LORD GOD” is “the Jewish Sabbath” and no longer valid ….except when Dr Walter wants them for his anti-sabbath rhetoric needs.

 

[Dr. Walter]

1. The Greek preposition "en" confines the Time of this assemblying, breaking bread and preaching to "the first day of the week"

2. The Greek term found as a Perfect participle is the common term in the book of Acts used to describe the ACT of public assembly by New Testament congregations:

When we were gathered together (συνηγμενων ημων). Genitive absolute, perfect passive participle of συναγω, to gather together, a formal meeting of the disciples. See this verb used for gatherings of disciples in #Ac 4:31; 11:26; 14:27; 15:6,30; 19:7,8; 1Co 5:4. -Dr. A.T. Robertson on Acts 20:7


3. The actions of breaking bread and preaching are acts of PUBLIC WORSHIP

4. The Greek perfect Participle as a gentivie absolute conveys that gathering "en" the first day of the week for the public acts of worship (breaking bread and preaching) is the ESTABLISHED practice by this congregation from its inception and continues to be the established practice.

GE:
What is this?: “Paul came to them "when" the disciples came together rather than "when" Paul came to them”?

Luke:
“Paul … came into Greece, and stayed there for three months. … And he planned to return (to Jerusalem) …There accompanied him into Asia, Sopater … Aristarchus … Secundus … Gaius … Timotheus … Tychicus and Trophimus. These GOING BEFORE TARRIED FOR US at Derbe. … And we (Paul and Luke) CAME UNTO THEM to Troas …”

Paul and Luke took “five days” to get from Greece around the Jews who “laid wait for him” (Paul) in Syria, “through Macedonia”, to Troas. In Troas “we (they all— nine persons) abode seven days”. Seven of them were in Troas therefore 12 days, it seems.

The last full day of their stay was a Sabbath, because Paul “departed” to Assos on the morning of the First Day of the week. Vv 7, 13.

IN THE EVENING OF THE FIRST DAY ('Saturday evening') the disciples “were being assembling STILL”— ‘sunehgmenohn’, a PERFECT Participle, meaning PRECISELY: “Us having had been assembling in the PAST FOR TO Break Bread us being assembling STILL in the PRESENT, Paul dialogued with them …”.

They all had been together the whole week already, coming and going. But on the last day they— or rather “us, had been assembling for Holy Communion and were being assembling STILL ON THE FIRST DAY”, and “Paul preached to them”.

Clearly the group celebrated the Lord’s Supper on the last Sabbath of their stay in Troas. What doubt can there be accept in the mind of the willing blind out of pure bias against the importance still attached by the New Testament Church to the Sabbath?

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

You may not like the fact that the noun is used in Malichi 3;10 and that Paul purposely uses it in its verb form in 1 Cor. 16:2 but that is your problem in trying to defend your heretical sabbath theory. The seventh day Sabbath is the sign of the Old Covenant and even you must admit the Old Covenant has been abolished and if it has been abolished so has its sign.

You may not like the fact that bringing your tithes and offerings to the house of God ON THE DAY OF WORSHIP was and still is an INSEPARABLE ACT OF PUBLIC WORSHIP toward God. Hence, I Cor. 16:1-2 proves that "the first day of the week" is THE LORD's DAY as it is ON the Lord's day public worship occurred and bringing and giving tithes and offerings at the house of God ON the Lord's Day was and is inseperable from TRUE PUBLIC WORSHIP!

GE:

In Afrikaans we have a saying about horse figs. Don't tell me Paul had Malachi in mind ... and that, in Greek! Unbelievable! as Hugh Bladen always exclaims when rugby at its best.

Unbelievable!

And you are very dependent, Dr Walter, on just about every sort of 'Jewish' relics for your modern day 'Christian' religion? Like tithing?

Unbelievable!

And you are the one who claims, "the Old Covenant has been abolished and if it has been abolished so has its sign"?

Unbelievable!

Aren't you going to call in the help from circumcision on the eighth day still for your Sunday-sacredness? Forgetting its ‘sign’ has been abolished?

Unbelievable!

Most unbelievable, is how you pride yourself, Dr Walter, on mutual 'public worship', such as Sabbath legalists thrive on worldwide.

 

[Dr. Walter]

Hogwash! You can put this interpretation upon the 15th and 21st as seasonal Sabbaths you cannot do so with the phrase "seven sabbaths" and the 50th day occurred after the seventh Sabbath which makes it the first day of the week.

Besides the Jews beleived it celebrated the giving of the law at Mount Sinai which they attributed to the first day of the week.

GE:

The ‘sabbath’ here intended is defined right in place: “…the morrow after the sabbath, from the day that ye brought the sheaf…”.
“The day that ye brought the sheaf” was “the day (‘morrow’) after the sabbath” referred to. The sheaf was brought / harvested and “waved before the LORD” on the third day of the passover-season, “the sixteenth day” “cleansing” of the temple was “made an end of / finished”, 2Chronicles 29:17. “The day that ye brought the sheaf”, was actually, “the morrow / day after the sabbath”; “the sabbath” therefore having been “The-Feast-of-the-Passover” “the fifteenth day of the First Month” and “great-day-of-sabbath” of the passover. John 19:31.

These days irrespective indissolubly being LINKED to the DATE of the month, “which YE (the people and their priests) shall proclaim / appoint / determine in (or ‘according to’) THEIR, SEASONS”, IRREFUTABLE proves they were ‘typological’ or ‘ceremonial’ or ‘YEARLY’, ‘sabbaths’. Just like the ‘sabbath’ of the tenth day of the Seventh Month, the ‘great day of atonement’, ‘sabbath’.

Which no one has ever QUESTIONED or COULD question are ‘seasonal sabbaths’ that have NO relevance with “The Seventh Day : ‘Sabbath’, OF THE LORD GOD” and determined and proclaimed by HIM SOLELY, by own mandate and authority of His Divinity.

But here comes along one Dr Walter with authority above that of God Himself and proclaims the seasons’ ‘sabbaths’ SHALL BE THE LORD GOD’S, Sabbath. Yet at once this Dr Walter decided “The Seventh Day : ‘Sabbath’, OF THE LORD GOD” is “the Jewish Sabbath” and no longer valid ….except when Dr Walter wants them for his anti-sabbath rhetoric needs.

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

1. The Greek preposition "en" confines the Time of this assemblying, breaking bread and preaching to "the first day of the week"
................

GE:

Irrelevant! There IS, NO, "this assembling" OR, "breaking bread", OR, "preaching" whatsoever "on the First Day". They did NOT 'assemble' "on the First Day"; "we were still being assembling on the First Day --- AFTER WE HAD BEEN ASSEMBLING TOGETHER BEFORE" is the complete and unitary and only meaning carried in the Perfect Participle. It's NO Verb! And you and I before, have been over all this. This Perfect Participle describes the circumstance and situation of the nine people, that kept on existing into the First Day of the week. That circumstance or set-up RESULTED FROM the "having been assembling together BEFORE" in the PAST on the Sabbath Day BEFORE when "we were being assembling together for Holy Communion".

And so, the Preposition 'en', confines the whole time-phrase to the only actual VERB of the sentence, "Paul conversed..." (He didn't 'preach'. Where's his 'sermon'?) Paul "conversed / dialected" with his fellow disciples "On the First Day of the week", ('en tehi miai tohn sabbatohn') reason given "BECAUSE THE NEXT MORNING HE WOULD DEPART". THAT'S ALL --- itinerary and logistics!

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

Hogwash! You can put this interpretation upon the 15th and 21st as seasonal Sabbaths you cannot do so with the phrase "seven sabbaths" and the 50th day occurred after the seventh Sabbath which makes it the first day of the week.

Besides the Jews beleived it celebrated the giving of the law at Mount Sinai which they attributed to the first day of the week.

GE:

“seven of sevens / seven of seven-days you must count”— not seven ‘weeks as from Seventh Day Sabbath to Seventh Day Sabbath’ as you allege.

There you say it yourself, “the 15th and 21st as seasonal Sabbaths”; and the first “seven-of-days” its first day had to be counted as day one “on the day after the sabbath”— THIS, ‘the 15th … as seasonal Sabbaths’.

It does NOT say what you say, “the 50th day occurred after the seventh Sabbath”; it speaks of “the 50th day”, as “the day after the seventh of sevens / of seven days (counted)”.

Ask any Jew to this day.

Besides, I would like to see the Jews attributed the giving of the Law “to the first day of the week”. In any case, who are these Jews who may do so? Jews of five to eight centuries after Christ? As far as I know the giving of the Law occurred three days after Pentecost; that’s what I see in the Torah itself; not what I heard from Jews.

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

.............

2. The Greek term found as a Perfect participle is the common term in the book of Acts used to describe the ACT of public assembly by New Testament congregations:

When we were gathered together (συνηγμενων ημων). Genitive absolute, perfect passive participle of συναγω, to gather together, a formal meeting of the disciples. See this verb used for gatherings of disciples in #Ac 4:31; 11:26; 14:27; 15:6,30; 19:7,8; 1Co 5:4. -Dr. A.T. Robertson on Acts 20:7

.................

GE:

Dr Robertson or not, his ‘definition’ here, is INCOMPLETE. Any Greek Grammar – even Dr Robertson’s own – will tell you that.

And Dr Robertson’s exegesis of HIMSELF is clearly subjective, “to gather together, a formal meeting of the disciples.”

Acts 4:31… “the place where they were being assembling together” Perfect Participle … quite naturally, ‘STILL’, when the earthquake occurred. The implication that they “having been assembling BEFORE” until the earthquake occurred is quite obvious and undeniable. It is my personal view that Acts here records the ongoing events of the day of Pentecost, so that the disciples “had had been assembling together”, since the beginning of the day of Pentecost! No different than the meaning in 20:7.

Acts 11:26, Infinitive … a whole year, they assembled together …. Makes one think, hey, ‘on the First Day’, or, on the Sabbaths? In as late as 13:14 “they (Paul included) came to Antioch and went into the synagogue on the Sabbath Day”. Now it so happened in chapter 11, “That a whole year they”— Barnabas and the same Paul, “assembled themselves WITH THE CHURCH” IN ANTIOCH, “and taught MANY people, and the disciples (the heathen) in Antioch were first called Christians.”

Is it unreasonable that I, even subjectively, may conclude, Acts 11:26 uses the term ‘συναγω’ “to describe the ACT of public assembly by New Testament congregations:… to gather together” in “formal meeting of disciples” of Jesus Christ, “on the Sabbath Day”? Why, oh why, not?! Because Dr A.T. Robertson said, “(συνηγμενων ημων). Genitive absolute, perfect passive participle of συναγω, to gather together, a formal meeting of the disciples. See this verb used for gatherings of disciples in #Ac 4:31; 11:26; 14:27; 15:6,30; 19:7,8; 1Co 5:4… ON THE FIRST DAY? NOT ‘ON THE SABBATH’? I WOULD MAKE DR ROBERTSON A LIAR!

And so would you, Dr Walter.

Shall I go on with the references? It will be very interesting to see how many times “(συνηγμενων ημων). Genitive absolute, perfect passive participle of συναγω”— or ‘συναγω’ in whatever form, indicated to gather together in and as “a formal meeting of the disciples”, ‘ON THE SABBATH’, because we already have seen it not once was used of actual coming together for formal worship “on the First Day of the week”.

 

[Dr. Walter]

you call yourself a Greek student and say the preposition "en" is irrelevant???? That is what you will stoop to to defend your heresy and it is a heresy that smells rotten in God's sight because it logically rejects Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior.

No, like it or lump it the Greek preposition "en" CONFINES and RESTRICTS all events within "the first day of the week" and that is just simple abc, grammar!

No, like it or lump it breaking of bread and preaching are acts of PUBLIC WORSHIP.

Dr. Robertson is considered one of the greatest Greek grammarians that has ever lived and I will take his word for the gentive absolute participle over yours -thank you any way!

No, they were saying that assemblying by the congregation at Troas from its initial origin until the present has been ESTABLISHED on Sunday.

GE:

Irrelevant! There IS, NO, "this assembling" OR, "breaking bread", OR, "preaching" whatsoever "on the First Day". They did NOT 'assemble' "on the First Day"; "we were still being assembling on the First Day --- AFTER WE HAD BEEN ASSEMBLING TOGETHER BEFORE" is the complete and unitary and only meaning carried in the Perfect Participle. It's NO Verb! And you and I before, have been over all this. This Perfect Participle describes the circumstance and situation of the nine people, that kept on existing into the First Day of the week. That circumstance or set-up RESULTED FROM the "having been assembling together BEFORE" in the PAST on the Sabbath Day BEFORE when "we were being assembling together for Holy Communion".

And so, the Preposition 'en', confines the whole time-phrase to the only actual VERB of the sentence, "Paul conversed..." (He didn't 'preach'. Where's his 'sermon'?) Paul "conversed / dialected" with his fellow disciples "On the First Day of the week", ('en tehi miai tohn sabbatohn') reason given "BECAUSE THE NEXT MORNING HE WOULD DEPART". THAT'S ALL --- itinerary and logistics!

 

[Dr. Walter]

Levitiucs 23:15 does not say "seven sevenths" it literally says in the Hebrew text "seven Sabbaths" and the term "sabbath" does not mean "seven" but "rest" or "cessation." - So your wrong.

GE:

“seven of sevens / seven of seven-days you must count”— not seven ‘weeks as from Seventh Day Sabbath to Seventh Day Sabbath’ as you allege.

There you say it yourself, “the 15th and 21st as seasonal Sabbaths”; and the first “seven-of-days” its first day had to be counted as day one “on the day after the sabbath”— THIS, ‘the 15th … as seasonal Sabbaths’.

It does NOT say what you say, “the 50th day occurred after the seventh Sabbath”; it speaks of “the 50th day”, as “the day after the seventh of sevens / of seven days (counted)”.

Ask any Jew to this day.

Besides, I would like to see the Jews attributed the giving of the Law “to the first day of the week”. In any case, who are these Jews who may do so? Jews of five to eight centuries after Christ? As far as I know the giving of the Law occurred three days after Pentecost; that’s what I see in the Torah itself; not what I heard from Jews.

 

[Dr. Walter]

Wiggle wiggle wiggle little worm! Robertson is correct and the examples prove it. This term demonstrates that SUNDAY GATHERING was the ESTABLISHED gathering at the beginning and continues to STAND as the day of worship and breaking of bread with preaching is worship.

GE:

Dr Robertson or not, his ‘definition’ here, is INCOMPLETE. Any Greek Grammar – even Dr Robertson’s own – will tell you that.

And Dr Robertson’s exegesis of HIMSELF is clearly subjective, “to gather together, a formal meeting of the disciples.”

Acts 4:31… “the place where they were being assembling together” Perfect Participle … quite naturally, ‘STILL’, when the earthquake occurred. The implication that they “having been assembling BEFORE” until the earthquake occurred is quite obvious and undeniable. It is my personal view that Acts here records the ongoing events of the day of Pentecost, so that the disciples “had had been assembling together”, since the beginning of the day of Pentecost! No different than the meaning in 20:7.

Acts 11:26, Infinitive … a whole year, they assembled together …. Makes one think, hey, ‘on the First Day’, or, on the Sabbaths? In as late as 13:14 “they (Paul included) came to Antioch and went into the synagogue on the Sabbath Day”. Now it so happened in chapter 11, “That a whole year they”— Barnabas and the same Paul, “assembled themselves WITH THE CHURCH” IN ANTIOCH, “and taught MANY people, and the disciples (the heathen) in Antioch were first called Christians.”

Is it unreasonable that I, even subjectively, may conclude, Acts 11:26 uses the term ‘συναγω’ “to describe the ACT of public assembly by New Testament congregations:… to gather together” in “formal meeting of disciples” of Jesus Christ, “on the Sabbath Day”? Why, oh why, not?! Because Dr A.T. Robertson said, “(συνηγμενων ημων). Genitive absolute, perfect passive participle of συναγω, to gather together, a formal meeting of the disciples. See this verb used for gatherings of disciples in #Ac 4:31; 11:26; 14:27; 15:6,30; 19:7,8; 1Co 5:4… ON THE FIRST DAY? NOT ‘ON THE SABBATH’? I WOULD MAKE DR ROBERTSON A LIAR!

And so would you, Dr Walter.

Shall I go on with the references? It will be very interesting to see how many times “(συνηγμενων ημων). Genitive absolute, perfect passive participle of συναγω”, indicated to gather together in and as “a formal meeting of the disciples”, ‘ON THE SABBATH’, because we already have seen it not once was used of actual coming together for formal worship “on the First Day of the week”.