Col.2{16}

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

you call yourself a Greek student and say the preposition "en" is irrelevant???? That is what you will stoop to to defend your heresy and it is a heresy that smells rotten in God's sight because it logically rejects Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior.

No, like it or lump it the Greek preposition "en" CONFINES and RESTRICTS all events within "the first day of the week" and that is just simple abc, grammar!

No, like it or lump it breaking of bread and preaching are acts of PUBLIC WORSHIP.

Dr. Robertson is considered one of the greatest Greek grammarians that has ever lived and I will take his word for the gentive absolute participle over yours -thank you any way!

No, they were saying that assemblying by the congregation at Troas from its initial origin until the present has been ESTABLISHED on Sunday.

GE:

“The preposition "en" is irrelevant” to your argument, Dr Walter, most definitely. It helps you NOTHING that the disciples “were being assembling together STILL on the First Day of the week, AFTER they BEFORE were being assembling”, because their assembling still on the First Day happened to be in the evening of the First Day which was the ‘Saturday evening’ in ‘our’ terms. So that BEFORE ‘Saturday evening’, MUST have been on the Sabbath Day just before it. And it was at their ‘original’ or initial “having been assembling in the PAST”— ‘PERFECT’ Participle, see, that they were “assembling for to eat the Lord’s Supper”. Infinitive of Noun Force, ‘hehmohn klasai arton’.

The Preposition "en" is not irrelevant to LUKE’S argument, that it was while “we were being assembling STILL on the First Day of the week”, that “Paul discussed matters with them”. Not at all; I never contemplated the idea. The idea comes from you, Dr Walter; I should ‘thank’ you, for it.

So, yes, absolutely! “the Greek preposition "en" CONFINES and RESTRICTS all events within "the first day of the week" and that is just simple abc, grammar!” Prettily put! The ONLY “events within "the first day of the week"” having been that Paul discussed matters with them, because that’s the only and first Verb of ‘events’, and then of course every event that actually happened after that and also during that— Paul’s ‘discussion with them’. Again I, never denied any of it or that “the Greek preposition "en" CONFINES and RESTRICTS all events within "the first day of the week"”; never; not me, Dr Walter. Show me where if I did? I have been the one who STATED that the Perfect Participle is ADVERBIAL AND ADJECTIVAL, describing the CONDITIONS “On the First Day of the week” when the ACTION-word was “Paul DISCUSSED” (and NOT, ‘the disciples assembled’)! ME! The stupid plumber of God; and not you, the learned Doctor in God-science. Scandal!

Now this is getting serious stuff, Dr Walter maintaining, Dr. Robertson’s “word for the genitive absolute participle”, as were he “…saying that assemblying by the congregation at Troas from its initial origin until the present has been ESTABLISHED on Sunday”. Dr Walter, did I hear you say you respect Dr Robertson? Did I hear you say you accept his word before anyone else’s? How noble of you, Dr Walter! Dr Robertson really DESERVES highest regard and respect. Take care, Dr Walter, that you don’t do Dr Robertson injustice. A common man like me would say, take care not to shoot yourself in the foot, old chap. For what Dr A.T. Robertson maintains in effect is THIS: Assembly-ing by the congregation at Troas – from its initial origin – WAS STILL GOING ON, until and into the present, on Sunday / ‘Saturday-night’. THAT! And not your cowardly manipulation of his statements.

 

[Dr. Walter]

GE:

“The preposition "en" is irrelevant” to your argument, Dr Walter, most definitely. It helps you NOTHING that the disciples “were being assembling together STILL on the First Day of the week, AFTER they BEFORE were being assembling”, because their assembling still on the First Day happened to be in the evening of the First Day which was the ‘Saturday evening’ in ‘our’ terms. So that BEFORE ‘Saturday evening’, MUST have been on the Sabbath Day just before it. And it was at their ‘original’ or initial “having been assembling in the PAST”— ‘PERFECT’ Participle, see, that they were “assembling for to eat the Lord’s Supper”. Infinitive of Noun Force, ‘hehmohn klasai arton’.

The Preposition "en" is not irrelevant to LUKE’S argument, that it was while “we were being assembling STILL on the First Day of the week”, that “Paul discussed matters with them”. Not at all; I never contemplated the idea. The idea comes from you, Dr Walter; I should ‘thank’ you, for it.

So, yes, absolutely! “the Greek preposition "en" CONFINES and RESTRICTS all events within "the first day of the week" and that is just simple abc, grammar!” Prettily put! The ONLY “events within "the first day of the week"” having been that Paul discussed matters with them, because that’s the only and first Verb of ‘events’, and then of course every event that actually happened after that and also during that— Paul’s ‘discussion with them’. Again I, never denied any of it or that “the Greek preposition "en" CONFINES and RESTRICTS all events within "the first day of the week"”; never; not me, Dr Walter. Show me where if I did? I have been the one who STATED that the Perfect Participle is ADVERBIAL AND ADJECTIVAL, describing the CONDITIONS “On the First Day of the week” when the ACTION-word was “Paul DISCUSSED” (and NOT, ‘the disciples assembled’)! ME! The stupid plumber of God; and not you, the learned Doctor in God-science. Scandal!

Now this is getting serious stuff, Dr Walter maintaining, Dr. Robertson’s “word for the genitive absolute participle”, as were he “…saying that assemblying by the congregation at Troas from its initial origin until the present has been ESTABLISHED on Sunday”. Dr Walter, did I hear you say you respect Dr Robertson? Did I hear you say you accept his word before anyone else’s? How noble of you, Dr Walter! Dr Robertson really DESERVES highest regard and respect. Take care, Dr Walter, that you don’t do Dr Robertson injustice. A common man like me would say, take care not to shoot yourself in the foot, old chap. For what Dr A.T. Robertson maintains in effect is THIS: Assembly-ing by the congregation at Troas – from its initial origin – WAS STILL GOING ON, until and into the present, on Sunday / ‘Saturday-night’. THAT! And not your cowardly manipulation of his statements.

Put all the spin you want on his words but the common version is plain and easy to grasp and true. The first day of the week was the established day for gathering to worship that included breaking of bread and preaching.

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

You may not like the fact that the noun is used in Malichi 3;10 and that Paul purposely uses it in its verb form in 1 Cor. 16:2 but that is your problem in trying to defend your heretical sabbath theory. The seventh day Sabbath is the sign of the Old Covenant and even you must admit the Old Covenant has been abolished and if it has been abolished so has its sign.

You may not like the fact that bringing your tithes and offerings to the house of God ON THE DAY OF WORSHIP was and still is an INSEPARABLE ACT OF PUBLIC WORSHIP toward God. Hence, I Cor. 16:1-2 proves that "the first day of the week" is THE LORD's DAY as it is ON the Lord's day public worship occurred and bringing and giving tithes and offerings at the house of God ON the Lord's Day was and is inseperable from TRUE PUBLIC WORSHIP!

GE:
1Corinthians 16:2,
“Foreasmuch as ye know that your labour is not in vain in the Lord, about the collection then for the saints (in Judah) , as I have given order to the churches of Galatia, even so do ye: Every First Day of the week let each of you by himself put away storing up (thehsauridzohn’) that whatever he is prospered, lest whenever I come then collections there are.” (Marshall)

First observation, Paul does NOT “purposely use it (‘thehsauridzoh’) in its verb form in 1 Cor. 16:2”; he uses ‘it’, ‘thehsauridzoh’, in its Participle form— Nominative Singular Masculine Present, ‘thehsauridzohn’.

Second observation, The verb form Paul “uses in 1 Cor. 16:2”, is, ‘tithehmi’, ‘tithetoh’ Present Imperative third Person— “lay by / put (away)”.

Main Verb of sentence? ‘tithetoh’, “lay by / put (away)”.

Conclusion:
Main Verb of sentence : ‘tithetoh’, “lay by / put (away)”—
NOT the “verb form” of “thesaurous” and
certainly not that Paul uses it – the “verb form” of “thesaurous” – in 1Cor. 16:2, “purposely”, or, with reference to “the noun used in Malichi 3;10” in the LXX!

Third observation:
Subclauses that confirm my conclusions:
HOW to “lay by / put (away)”? : Adverbial phrase of Manner: “by storing up” / “accumulating”, “each of you” (‘hekastos humohn’), “by himself” (‘par heautohi’).

WHEN to “lay by / put (away)”? : Adverbial phrase of Time: “On the First day of the week”.

Also:
1) Paul, saying,
“as I have given order to the churches of Galatia, even so do ye”,
gives a new, first-time instruction;

and

2) Paul, saying,
“about the collection then for the saints (in Judah) … lest whenever I come then collections there are”,
gives a special and for once only, instruction…

contradict Dr Walter,
“bringing your tithes and offerings to the house of God ON THE DAY OF WORSHIP was and still is an INSEPARABLE ACT OF PUBLIC WORSHIP toward God”.

Therefore,
Re:
Dr Walter:
“1 Cor. 16:1-2 is a direct command to do this and the word "store" in the Greek is the same identical term used in the LXX in Malichi 3:10 and refers to the house of God which the congregation is (1 Tim. 3:15).”

‘Storehouses’ (‘otsar’) = “the house of God” ?

Malachi 3:10, “Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse (‘otsar’) that there may be meat in my house (‘bayita’).”

1Chronicles 27:25, “…the king’s treasures (‘otsar’) … storehouses in the fields, cities, villages, and castles…”

Psalm 33:7, “He layeth up the depth in storehouses.”

So here is Dr Walter’s stronghold of Sunday-sacredness, the Septuagint, in Malachi 3:10,

“The year is completed, and ye have brought all the produce (ta ekphoria’) into the STOREHOUSES (‘eis tous thehsaurous’, Plural!)— but there shall be the PLUNDER THEREOF IN ITS HOUSE (‘en tohi oikohi’).”

If Malachi couldn’t find connection between ‘storehouses’ and “the house of God which is the congregation”, how would Paul? And the fact Paul found none, raises the question, how could Dr Walter?

Yes, there really is an answer: the miracle of Sunday-worship.

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr. Walter
The Greek term found as a Perfect participle is the common term in the book of Acts used to describe the ACT of public assembly by New Testament congregations:

When we were gathered together (συνηγμενων ημων). Genitive absolute, perfect passive participle of συναγω, to gather together, a formal meeting of the disciples. See this verb used for gatherings of disciples in Ac 4:31; 11:26; 14:27; 15:6,30; 19:7,8; 1Co 5:4. -Dr. A.T. Robertson on Acts 20:7


GE:


The Verb ‘sunagoh’ is used in the NT 59 times in its different verbal forms, of which 11 occur in the book of Acts.

Of the 11 times the Verb ‘sunagoh’ is used in Acts in its different verbal forms, it is used as
Aorist Indicative 4 times;
as Aorist Infinitive, 2 times;
as Aorist Participle, 2 times;
as Perfect Participle Nominative Plural, twice, in 4:31 and 20:8;
as Perfect Participle Genitive Plural, once, Acts 20:7.

Therefore, of the 59 times “this verb used for gatherings of disciples” considered as “a formal meeting of the disciples” in the New Testament — as (allegedly) ‘quoted’ from “Dr. A.T. Robertson on Acts 20:7” by Dr Walter, at least 47 incidences may safely be assumed were incidences of SABBATH-KEEPERS’ ‘formal meetings’— SABBATH-KEEPERS Jews or Gentiles, disciples or other than the disciples, Christian or non-Christian, pre-Pentecost or post-Pentecost, and THEREFORE MAY SAFELY BE ASSUMED most probably would have been ‘formal meetings’ rather than any other days, ON SABBATH DAYS!

Ratio: 48 on Sabbaths, against 11 on Sundays ASSUMED instances of – according to Dr Walter’s insinuation – “formal meeting of the disciples”.

BUT!
Dr Walter made big issue of “the fact that the noun is used in” the case of the Verb ‘thesauridzoh’, ‘to store away’. So, why can’t we now make big issue of “the fact that the noun is used in” the case of the Verb ‘sunagoh’, and bring into account the fact the Noun of ‘sunagoh’, “Synagogue”, ‘sunagohgeh’ is used in the NT (another) 56 times?! And seeing a ‘Synagogue’ is meant for exclusive use on the Seventh Day Sabbath for WORSHIP, why can’t we conclude (another) 56 incidences of SABBATH-KEEPERS’ ‘formal meetings’— SABBATH-KEEPERS Jews or Gentiles, disciples or other than the disciples, Christian or non-Christian, pre-Pentecost or post-Pentecost, and THEREFORE MAY SAFELY ADD another 56 incidences of ‘formal meetings’ rather than any other days ON SABBATH DAYS— bringing the total to a ratio of 104 to 11!

BUT!
These alleged 11 instances out of the 115 mentioned instances of words from ‘meet’ / ‘meeting’ / ‘gather’ / ‘gathering’ : ‘sunagoh’ ‘sunagohgeh’ according to Dr Walter of “formal meeting of the disciples” on Sundays, is HIGHLY SUSPECT! Understand, that “the First Day of the week” is mentioned but ONCE; and that, in that one time, “the First Day of the week” is mentioned in conjunction with the Perfect Participle of the Verb, ‘sunagoh’, ‘sunehgmenohn’.

All these factors result in the TRUE “fact”, The Greek term found as a Perfect Participle in Acts 20:7 and 8 is RATHER, the common term in the book of Acts used to describe the ACT of public assembly by New Testament congregations ON SABBATHS : 113 times against 2 – ‘two’ certain last straws, to break the poor Sunday-hackneyed camel’s back once for all, for we may easily add MANY more IMPLIED Sabbaths’ instances such as are suggested by expressions like “As his habit was” and “he stayed there fore three months” etc.; not to mention the every-day life situation of Sabbaths’ observance in the Judaic state and era.

Again these factors act like a huge magnifying glass with the help of which most careful scrutiny WON’T YIELD ONE SINGLE CASE in the New Testament of authentic Christian worship on the First Day of the week.

 

[Dr. Walter]

GE:
1Corinthians 16:2,
“Foreasmuch as ye know that your labour is not in vain in the Lord, about the collection then for the saints (in Judah) , as I have given order to the churches of Galatia, even so do ye: Every First Day of the week let each of you by himself put away storing up (thehsauridzohn’) that whatever he is prospered, lest whenever I come then collections there are.” (Marshall)

First observation, Paul does NOT “purposely use it (‘thehsauridzoh’) in its verb form in 1 Cor. 16:2”; he uses ‘it’, ‘thehsauridzoh’, in its Participle form— Nominative Singular Masculine Present, ‘thehsauridzohn’.

That is correct. I have been dealing with four different persons on this forum and three different arguments and got them confused with one another and made a slip of the tongue here. I had been dealing with a perfect participle on another thread.

Dr Walter:
“‘Storehouses’ (‘otsar’) = “the house of God” ?

I am quoting Malichi 3:10 from the LXX not the Hebrew text. Trying to make your case from the Hebrew text is sly but dishonest because it is the Greek usage not the Hebrew that I am comparing. Paul is writing in Greek in 1 Cor. 16:2 not hebrew. Take a look at the LXX and you will see that Malichi 3:10 in the LXX uses "thesaurous" the noun and Paul uses the same term except in the participle form which can be used as a noun and several Greek scholars believe it is used as a noun for the common "treasury." Paul is simply telling them take what each individual has laid aside and on the first day of the week put it into the common treasury so that Paul will not have to come and go house to house collecting it but it will be in one place most likely with one person who holds the church purpose.

Your intepretation makes a fool out of Paul. The idea that it will be less complicated by making Paul search out every single house in Corinth in order to collect the offering is impractical and irrational thinking.

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

Dr Walter, call me sly and dishonest does not change the open and visible fact I HAVE PRESENTED THE LXX version too, directly in the same post. Word wakker!



And what would make referring to the Hebrew, sly and dishonest practice? Is there such a vast inferiority to the Hebrew text that it isn't worthy to be placed side by side with the Greek?

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

That is correct. I have been dealing with four different persons on this forum and three different arguments and got them confused with one another and made a slip of the tongue here. I had been dealing with a perfect participle on another thread.





I am quoting Malichi 3:10 from the LXX not the Hebrew text. Trying to make your case from the Hebrew text is sly but dishonest because it is the Greek usage not the Hebrew that I am comparing. Paul is writing in Greek in 1 Cor. 16:2 not hebrew. Take a look at the LXX and you will see that Malichi 3:10 in the LXX uses "thesaurous" the noun and Paul uses the same term except in the participle form which can be used as a noun and several Greek scholars believe it is used as a noun for the common "treasury." Paul is simply telling them take what each individual has laid aside and on the first day of the week put it into the common treasury so that Paul will not have to come and go house to house collecting it but it will be in one place most likely with one person who holds the church purpose.

Your intepretation makes a fool out of Paul. The idea that it will be less complicated by making Paul search out every single house in Corinth in order to collect the offering is impractical and irrational thinking.

GE:

Who said these things, "making Paul search out every single house in Corinth in order to collect the offering"?

NOT GE; BUT DR WALTER!

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

...............
I am quoting Malichi 3:10 from the LXX not the Hebrew text. ...................

GE:

So, the LXX, Malachi 3:10, "“The year is completed, and ye have brought all the produce (ta ekphoria’) into the STOREHOUSES (‘eis tous thehsaurous’, Plural!)— but there shall be the PLUNDER THEREOF IN ITS HOUSE (‘en tohi oikohi’).” "

Just one question, Dr Walter, All the produce of the whole land of the whole year, were brought to the "house of God" the Congregation or Church?

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

....................
it is the Greek usage not the Hebrew that I am comparing. Paul is writing in Greek in 1 Cor. 16:2 not hebrew. Take a look at the LXX and you will see that Malichi 3:10 in the LXX uses "thesaurous" the noun and Paul uses the same term except in the participle form which can be used as a noun and several Greek scholars believe it is used as a noun for the common "treasury." ....................

GE:

First you made an issue about the 'VERB' and now you make an issue about the 'NOUN'..... being the big factor of distinction / and / or similarity between the two texts?

I do not understand you, Dr Walter, quite frankly, and your rhetoric seems meant to confuse rather than explain.

 

[Dr. Walter]

GE:

Who said these things, "making Paul search out every single house in Corinth in order to collect the offering"?

NOT GE; BUT DR WALTER!

You came into this discussion between my self and another poster who had been defending that interpretation in regard to a saturday sabbath.

 

[Dr. Walter]

GE:

First you made an issue about the 'VERB' and now you make an issue about the 'NOUN'..... being the big factor of distinction / and / or similarity between the two texts?

I do not understand you, Dr Walter, quite frankly, and your rhetoric seems meant to confuse rather than explain.

You are choosing to make it confusing when it is very simple. The term "house of God" is carried over from the Old Testament application of the temple to the New Testament application to the "congregation" of Christ.

The phrase "house of God" conveyed basic ideas associated with the Temple when applied to the congregation.

1. God's dwelling place - (I Tim. 3:15; 1 Cor. 3:9,16)
2. qualified ministry (1 Tim. 3:1-13).
3. Public designated place of worship (1 Pet. 2:5; Heb. 13)
4. Where tithes and offerings were brought
5. Where the ordinances were administered

The Septuigent was well known among the Jews and proselytes in that day. The Greek noun "thesaurous" is descriptive of the house of God as the designated place where the Jews would bring their tithes and offerings as the storage place from whence the Levites would distribute them accordingly.

Paul intentionally uses the same term that identifies the house of God with tithes and offerings in Malichi 3:10 with the New Testament house of God in 1 Cor. 16:1-2.

The logic is simple, Paul did not want to go house to house collecting each persons offerings as that would require lots of time and energy by Paul. They were to take what they had laid up for offerings and put it in the common treasury. This way, when Paul came he simply had to go to one place, most likely to one person (treasurer) who kept the community bag and take the offering and go.

The participle can be used as a noun and the sense is very simple. They were to take their individual offerings and put them, place them in the treasury - or the common bag for the congregation.

Judas carried such a bag and was the treasurer with the treasury. T

The first day of the week was the Sabbath day of the congregations and would be the day they would take what is considered as and inseparable from an act of worship (giving) and "put it" or "place" in the treasury ready for Paul's arrival.

 

[Dr. Walter]

You are choosing to make it confusing when it is very simple. The term "house of God" is carried over from the Old Testament application of the temple to the New Testament application to the "congregation" of Christ.

The phrase "house of God" conveyed basic ideas associated with the Temple when applied to the congregation.

1. God's dwelling place - (I Tim. 3:15; 1 Cor. 3:9,16)
2. qualified ministry (1 Tim. 3:1-13).
3. Public designated place of worship (1 Pet. 2:5; Heb. 13)
4. Where tithes and offerings were brought
5. Where the ordinances were administered

The Septuigent was well known among the Jews and proselytes in that day. The Greek noun "thesaurous" is descriptive of the house of God as the designated place where the Jews would bring their tithes and offerings as the storage place from whence the Levites would distribute them accordingly.

Paul intentionally uses the same term that identifies the house of God with tithes and offerings in Malichi 3:10 with the New Testament house of God in 1 Cor. 16:1-2.

The logic is simple, Paul did not want to go house to house collecting each persons offerings as that would require lots of time and energy by Paul. They were to take what they had laid up for offerings and put it in the common treasury. This way, when Paul came he simply had to go to one place, most likely to one person (treasurer) who kept the community bag and take the offering and go.

The participle can be used as a noun and the sense is very simple. They were to take their individual offerings and put them, place them in the treasury - or the common bag for the congregation.

Judas carried such a bag and was the treasurer with the treasury. T

The first day of the week was the Sabbath day of the congregations and would be the day they would take what is considered as and inseparable from an act of worship (giving) and "put it" or "place" in the treasury ready for Paul's arrival.

1 Corinthians 16:1-2 establishes the "first day of the week" as the worship day when worship (giving) as well as preaching and breaking of bread (Acts 20:7) occurred. Revelation 1:10 does not use the common Greek word for "the day (kurios) of the Lord" but uses the well known established word for that which designated Sunday as the worship day for Ceasar (on the Lord's (kuriakos) day but like Paul, John used it for the worship observances of Christ (1 Cor. 11:20) rather than for Ceasar.

 

[percho]

1 Corinthians 16:1-2 establishes the "first day of the week" as the worship day when worship (giving) as well as preaching and breaking of bread (Acts 20:7) occurred. Revelation 1:10 does not use the common Greek word for "the day (kurios) of the Lord" but uses the well known established word for that which designated Sunday as the worship day for Ceasar (on the Lord's (kuriakos) day but like Paul, John used it for the worship observances of Christ (1 Cor. 11:20) rather than for Ceasar.

As to what is described in the word of God concerning what is to happen on the day of the LORD I would venture to say that may be what will happen on a day Ceasar would assign for himself.

 

[Dr. Walter]

As to what is described in the word of God concerning what is to happen on the day of the LORD I would venture to say that may be what will happen on a day Ceasar would assign for himself.

John explicitly states he was exiled for his service to Christ. Most likely John refused to offer the pinch of incense unto Ceasar on the Sunday set apart to observe Ceasar worship as the god/man. Instead, John took that title for the day of worship and attributed to the true God/man on every first day of the week.

Paul took the same term "kuriakos" attributed to observing Ceasars ordinances and attributed to observing the Supper (1 Cor. 11:20) or the "Lord's Supper."

Later Christians would take the same term "kuriakos" that was attributed to the place or temple to worship Caesar and ascribe it to the place where Christians met to worship Christ or "The Lord's (kuriakos) house."

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

You are choosing to make it confusing when it is very simple. The term "house of God" is carried over from the Old Testament application of the temple to the New Testament application to the "congregation" of Christ.

The phrase "house of God" conveyed basic ideas associated with the Temple when applied to the congregation.
..................

GE:

Alright, the words ‘thehsauros’ and ‘oikos’ are used synonymously; the Singular ‘house’ as Collective Noun of the all over the land, many, ‘barns’, where real “produce” was stored. Frankly, Malachi 3:10 has nothing to do with the temple in Jerusalem or the Convocation of the People there for worship. That is fantastically far fetched.

The Hebrew, 'bayita' for 'house' --- how is it associated with the Congregation worshiping? Whenever it is associated with "the House of God", it is distinctly with the very words, "'bayita' OF GOD", so that in all the cases that do not so distinguish the 'house', 'bayita', it naturally will NOT mean 'the House of God' or TEMPLE, not to mention even, the Congregation in worship, and that, the NEW Testament Congregation worshipping --- SUNDAYS!.

And the VERY SAME applies in the LXX.

You are a desperate man, Dr Walter, clutching at straws in drowning deep waters.

And for what purpose and cause? "Weak and beggarly superstitious elementary no-gods" of the "former" walk of Christianised heathen pagans? Galatians 4:8-10?

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

As to what is described in the word of God concerning what is to happen on the day of the LORD I would venture to say that may be what will happen on a day Ceasar would assign for himself.

GE:

("The Lord's Day" Adjectival, in distinction from 'the day (of judgment) of the LORD" - Genitive Substantive 'hehmera tou kuriou'.)

The Caesar's day of lordship was something like the 'basileukeh* hemera' from 'ho basileus', 'king' / 'lord' / 'boss' / 'caesar'; from 'basileuoh', 'to reign'. 1Timothy 6:15, Jesus Christ "the King of kings". (*Not sure about my Greek here.)

No, Dr Walter is dead right, "the Lord's Day", 'Kuriakeh Hehmera' is the "LORDLY DAY" of Jesus Christ THROUGH RESURRECTION FROM THE DEAD, "THE LORD" VICTOR KING. Glory be to his Name!

 

[Dr. Walter]

GE:

Alright, the words ‘thehsauros’ and ‘oikos’ are used synonymously; the Singular ‘house’ as Collective Noun of the all over the land, many, ‘barns’, where real “produce” was stored. Frankly, Malachi 3:10 has nothing to do with the temple in Jerusalem or the Convocation of the People there for worship. That is fantastically far fetched.

1. Malichi was written after the new temple in Jerusalem had been built.

2. The New Temple had a chamber built around it to house the tithes and offerings called the treasurery over which there were appointed treasurers:

Nehemiah 13:4 And before this, Eliashib the priest, having the oversight of the chamber of the house of our God, was allied unto Tobiah:
5 And he had prepared for him a great chamber, where aforetime they laid the meat offerings, the frankincense, and the vessels, and the tithes of the corn, the new wine, and the oil, which was commanded to be given to the Levites, and the singers, and the porters; and the offerings of the priests....12 Then brought all Judah the tithe of the corn and the new wine and the oil unto the treasuries.13 And I made treasurers over the treasuries, Shelemiah the priest, and Zadok the scribe, and of the Levites, Pedaiah: and next to them was Hanan the son of Zaccur, the son of Mattaniah: for they were counted faithful, and their office was to distribute unto their brethren.


3. Malich represents bringing in the tithes and offerings into the storehouse the same as bringing them into "MINE HOUSE" or temple:

Malichi 3:10 Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in mine house, and prove me now herewith, saith the LORD of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it.


4. In the New Testament the congregation is called "the house of God" and has a qualified ministry (1 Tim. 3:1-13).

1 Tim. 4:15 But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.


5. Paul describes the congregation at Corinth as a "building" and "temple" of God:

1 Cor. 3:9 For we are labourers together with God: ye are God’s husbandry, ye are God’s building......16 ¶ Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?


6. The local congregation had a treasurer and that can be seen in the pre-resurrection congregation where Judas held the congregational purse.


Paul is instructing them to take what they have laid aside for this offering during the week and bring it to the house of God on "the first day of the week" and put it, place it in the treasury. Once located, Paul merely comes and picks up the special offering from the treasurer without having to track down every member and go to their home.

The first day of the week is appointed because that is when the house of God - the congregation assembles or worship which included breaking bread, preaching and giving of tithes and offerings (Acts 20:7; 1 Cor. 16:1-2).

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

Chewing gum and bubble gum ... ag please daddy, take us to the drive-in...?

 

[Dr. Walter]

Chewing gum and bubble gum ... ag please daddy, take us to the drive-in...?

When I was kid that is where we went - the drive in movies. Now, there are none around.

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

Did you know the song, a South African pop group who made hit worldwide. I'll ask my wife the words. At that time I was too absorbed in the classics to stoop so low as pop .... a, what a relief .... although classic will ever be MY MUSIC!