Col.2{16}

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

Dr Walter, it’s a nice study, but you draw unwarranted conclusions, and so spoil the whole thing.

First, your OT examples do not contain any suggestion the bringing into the treasury of the tithes etc. happened on the day of worship (Sabbaths). On the contrary, stuff like “the corn, the new wine, and the oil” were brought into the ‘treasury-room(s)’ more probably a separate “treasury-HOUSE” NOT the actual “house of God” itself. The whole business had nothing to do with either Congregational worship or the Day of Worship except that it was NOT performed on the Day of Worship!

You seem also not to have noticed Malachi says the whole enterprise was going to collapse and be abolished through failure. Due to Israel’s infidelity yes, but nevertheless.

You also fail to see that Malachi specifically talks about dispersed ‘barns’-ordinary all over the countryside --- NOT the temple or at the temple (House of God).

And then of course, you rely on the LXX at the expense of the Hebrew text which unnecessary to mention does not contain the word or concept of a ‘thesaurus’ but plainly speaks of ‘store-room’ or ‘barn’.

You do not pay attention to the finer detail of the Corinthians text either, but invent your own distorted ideas in its stead. Chief of which is “…Once located, Paul merely comes and picks up the special offering from the treasurer without having to track down every member and go to their home.” (Which, by the buy, is self-contradictory of your idea the collections had to be made in the Church on every Sunday of worship!)

No, I see in the context that Paul wants to AVOID sudden and frantic last minute scrambling around for items of charity (mainly money). He expressly says every believer should “work out / calculate / ascertain / do book-keeping” of “what he prospered / was able to give”, and obviously did not want it to be done on the Sabbath Day, and therefore “advised” or “instructed” that it be done -- as one naturally can deduce -- as soon as possible after the Sabbath and before another week with its own challenges confronts everyone. Soon a man won’t know if he’s coming or going, and may make promises he may not be able to keep, or give less than he according to good Christian conscience, should have given.

Now all this turmoil, Paul wanted behind and history when he would arrive in Corinth. Once there, he would also not have liked to be bothered with campaigning or ‘strategies’ to collect or ‘gather in’ items of charity— BECAUSE EXACTLY THAT SORT OF THING WOULD NEVER BE THOUGHT OF when he would gather together with the Congregation to worship on the Sabbath Days he might spend in Corinth. Only when he would LEAVE again for Judea, Paul would pick everything up and oversee its transport to Judea. Everybody might have brought his contribution to the point of Paul’s departure, and so again, exempts the idea of Congregational, weekly, ‘collection’. (‘Kollekte’ in Afrikaans. Horrible thought!)

Please do not FORCE God’s Word for the vain and deceitful ‘holiness’ of Sundays’ worship. Become FREE-FOR-CHRIST!

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

post wiped out by GE (duplication)

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

I said above,

"No, I see in the context that Paul wants to AVOID sudden and frantic last minute scrambling around for items of charity (mainly money). He expressly says every believer should “work out / calculate / ascertain / do book-keeping” of “what he prospered / was able to give”, and obviously did not want it to be done on the Sabbath Day, and therefore “advised” or “instructed” that it be done -- as one naturally can deduce -- as soon as possible after the Sabbath and before another week with its own challenges confronts everyone."

The Acts 20:7 circumstantial context strengthens the impression Paul as it were CUSTOMARILY saved working out / calculating / planning for after the Sabbath Day, and therefore “discussed” “matters” / "business" of his pending journey -- as one naturally can adduce -- as soon as possible after the Sabbath and BEFORE he ventured on his way "on the First Day of the week". It is very clearly so, if one read the chapter further— everything in the end 'worked out as planned'.

 

[Chowmah]

Lets look back at what Col.2{16} is speaking of. It definately does not say what the sunday mornin denoinations claim it says

COL. 2 [16] Let no man therefore judge you in MEAT, or in DRINK, or in respect of an HOLYDAY, or of the NEW MOON, or of the SABBATH DAYS:

The scripture above is the scripture used by all the sunday go to meetin pulpiteers to distance themselves from Gods sabbath day. Its also their biggy to eat their piggy. There are many places in your bible which discuss the meat and the drink offerings of the holy days, new moons and the sabbath days which explain what Col.2 is speaking about but they are ignored by the “many”.

EZEKIEL 45 [17] And it shall be the prince's part to give burnt offerings, and MEAT offerings, and DRINK offerings, in the FEASTS, and in the NEW MOONS, and in the SABBATHS, in all solemnities of the house of Israel: he shall prepare the sin offering, and the meat offering, and the burnt offering, and the peace offerings, to make reconciliation for the house of Israel.

Heres one. Same exact order as Col.2{16}, meat, drink, holy days (feast days), new moons, sabbaths. What are the odds these 2 scriptures are not speaking about the same thing? A trillion to one? Do you believe that Ezek.45 is telling the old testament folks they no longer need keep Gods sabbath day or that its alright to go out and eat their piggys? Aint no way. Its simply speaking of the meat and drink offerings which were written in the law contained within the ordinances which were to take place on Gods holy days, new moons and His sabbath days. The many claim that the meat and drink spoken of in Col.2 are the unclean foods such as the oinker. If that were so please show me where any drink was said to be unclean. If there is an unclean drink ive yet to find it in the scriptures.

HEBREWS 13 [9] Be not carried about with divers and strange doctrines. For it is a good thing that the heart be ESTABLISHED WITH GRACE; NOT WITH MEATS, which have not profited them that have been occupied therein. [10] We have an altar, whereof they have no right to eat which serve the tabernacle. [11] For THE BODIES OF THOSE BEASTS, WHOSE BLOOD is brought into the sanctuary by the high priest for sin, are burned without the camp. [12] WHEREFORE JESUS ALSO, THAT HE MIGHT SANCTIFY THE PEOPLE WITH HIS OWN BLOOD, suffered without the gate.

So why should we judge no man in meat or drink in respect to holy days, new moons and sabbath days? Because Jesus fulfilled these offerings that were written in the law of commandments contained in the ordinances. Its the meat and drink offerings that are no more to be observed.

JOHN 6 [53] Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you. [54] Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day. [55] For MY FLESH IS MEAT INDEED, and MY BLOOD IS DRINK INDEED.

When we let scripture interpret scripture its very clear what Col.2 is speaking about. The meat and drink offerings of those days are no longer to be kept.

 

[Chowmah]

COL.2 [14] Blotting out THE HANDWRITING OF ORDINANCES that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;[15] And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.[16] Let no man therefore judge you in MEAT, or in DRINK, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:[17] Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

Jesus blotted out “only” the handwriting of the ordinances.

2 KINGS 17 [36] But the LORD, who brought you up out of the land of Egypt with great power and a stretched out arm, him shall ye fear, and him shall ye worship, and to him shall ye do sacrifice.[37] And the statutes, AND the ordinances, AND the law, AND the commandment, which he wrote for you, ye shall observe to do for evermore; and ye shall not fear other gods.

The “many” have come in the name of Christ and would have you to believe the law, the ordinances and the commandments are all lumped together as one. They do this so they can point out a scripture which talking about the law of circumcision (which was nailed to the cross) and then apply that scripture to the ten commandments. But as you can see in above scripture, the ordinances, the law, and the commandments are all separate. And it was not the law nor the ten commandments that Jesus nailed to the cross. It was the law contained in the ordinances.

EXODUS 12 [11] And thus shall ye eat it; with your loins girded, your shoes on your feet, and your staff in your hand; and ye shall eat it in haste: it is THE LORD'S PASSOVER. [12] For I will pass through the land of Egypt this night, and will smite all the firstborn in the land of Egypt, both man and beast; and against all the gods of Egypt I will execute judgment: I am the Lord. [13] And the blood shall be to you for a token upon the houses where ye are: and when I see the blood, I will pass over you, and the plague shall not be upon you to destroy you, when I smite the land of Egypt. [14] And this day shall be unto you for a memorial; and ye shall keep it a feast to the Lord throughout your generations; ye shall keep it A FEAST BY AN ORDINANCE FOR EVER.

Theres one of the feast days (holy days) which are to be kept by ordinance. The Lords passover

NUMBERS 28 [16] And in the fourteenth day of the first month is THE PASSOVER OF THE LORD. [17] And in the fifteenth day of this month is the feast: seven days shall unleavened bread be eaten. [18] In the first day shall be an holy convocation; ye shall do no manner of servile work therein: [19] But ye shall offer a sacrifice made by fire for a burnt offering unto the Lord; two young bullocks, and one ram, and seven lambs of the first year: they shall be unto you without blemish: [20] And their MEAT OFFERING shall be of flour mingled with oil: three tenth deals shall ye offer for a bullock, and two tenth deals for a ram; [21] A several tenth deal shalt thou offer for every lamb, throughout the seven lambs: [22] And one goat for a sin offering, to make an atonement for you. [23] Ye shall offer these beside the burnt offering in the morning, which is for a continual burnt offering. [24] After this manner ye shall offer daily, throughout the seven days, the meat of the sacrifice made by fire, of a sweet savour unto the Lord: it shall be offered beside the continual burnt offering, and his DRINK OFFERING.

Here we see the Lords passover and the meat and drink offering which are in the handwriting of that ordinance

HEBREWS 9 [1] Then verily THE FIRST COVENANT HAD ALSRDINANCES of divine service, and a worldly sanctuary. [9] Which was a figure for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience;[10] WHICH STOOD ONLY IN MEATS AND DRINKS, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation.[12] NEITHER BY THE BLOOD OF GOATS AND CALVES, BUT BY HIS OWN BLOOD he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.

 

[Chowmah]

NUMBERS 28 [9] And on the sabbath day two lambs of the first year without spot, and two tenth deals of flour for a MEAT OFFERING, mingled with oil, and the DRINK OFFERING thereof: [10] This is the burnt offering of EVERY SABBATH, beside the continual burnt offering, and his drink offering.

Theres the meat and drink offerings for the sabbath days that Col.2 [16] was speaking of.

EZEKIEL 46 [6] And in the day of the NEW MOON it shall be a young bullock without blemish, and six lambs, and a ram: they shall be without blemish. [7] And he shall prepare a MEAT OFFERING, an ephah for a bullock, and an ephah for a ram, and for the lambs according as his hand shall attain unto, and an hin of oil to an ephah.

The meat offering for the new moon that was spoken of in Col.2 [16].

LEVITICUS 23 [4] These are THE FEASTS OF THE LORD, even holy convocations, which ye shall proclaim in their seasons. [5] In the fourteenth day of the first month at even is THE LORD'S PASSOVER. [6] And on the fifteenth day of the same month is the feast of unleavened bread unto the Lord: seven days ye must eat unleavened bread…… [13] And the MEAT OFFERING thereof shall be two tenth deals of fine flour mingled with oil, an offering made by fire unto the Lord for a sweet savour: and the DRINK OFFERING thereof shall be of wine, the fourth part of an hin.

In all the feast days (holy days) meat and drink offerings were written into the laws of commandments contained in the ordinances. The above scripture points out the holy day of passover when Jesus was crucified.

HEBREWS 9 [1] Then verily THE FIRST COVENANT HAD ALSRDINANCES of divine service, and a worldly sanctuary. [9] Which was a figure for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience;[10] WHICH STOOD ONLY IN MEATS AND DRINKS, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation.[12] NEITHER BY THE BLOOD OF GOATS AND CALVES, BUT BY HIS OWN BLOOD he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.

Once again, the 1st covenant had ordinances which stood only in meat and drinks

EPH.2 [15] HAVING ABOLISHED in his flesh the enmity, even the LAW OF COMMANDMENTS CONTAINED IN ORDINANCES; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;[16] And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:

COL. 2 [13] And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses; [14] BLOTTING OUT THE HANDWRITING OF ORDINANCES that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

ISAIAH 24 [5] The earth also is defiled under the inhabitants thereof; because they have transgressed the laws, CHANGED THE ORDINANCE, broken the everlasting covenant.[6] Therefore hath the curse devoured the earth, and they that dwell therein are desolate: therefore the inhabitants of the earth are burned, and few men left.

But in this “Day of the Lord” scripture it seems the many will go on believing what they’ve been taught by their sunday mourning pulpiteers. They will continue to believe the commandments mentioned in Eph.2 are the 10 commandments and not the law of commandments contained in the ordinances

 

[Chowmah]

COL.2 [14] BLOTTING OUT THE HANDWRITING OF ORDINANCES that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;[15] And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.[16] Let no man therefore judge you in MEAT, or in DRINK, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:[17] WHICH ARE A SHADOW OF THINGS TO COME; but the body is of Christ.

The handwriting of ordinances has been blotted out. They were the shadow of things to come. What do the “many” claim the shadow was? They say the shadow was the new moons, feast days and Gods sabbath day. What do the scriptures say?

HEBREWS 9 [1] Then verily THE FIRST COVENANT HAD ALSRDINANCES of divine service, and a worldly sanctuary. [9] Which was a figure for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience;[10] WHICH STOOD ONLY IN MEATS AND DRINKS, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation.[12] NEITHER BY THE BLOOD OF GOATS AND CALVES, BUT BY HIS OWN BLOOD he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.

Theres the shadow of Col.2 that was blotted out. The meat and drink offerings found in verse 10. The handwriting of ordinances. It was not Gods sabbath day as the “many” claim.

HEBREWS 10 [1] For THE LAW HAVING A SHADOW of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with THOSE SACRIFICES WHICH THEY OFFERED YEAR BY YEAR continually make the comers thereunto perfect.[2] For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins.[3] But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year.[4] For IT IS NOT POSSIBLE THAT THE BLOOD OF BULLS AND OF GOATS SHOULD TAKE AWAY SINS.

Hebrews 10 says it all. The shadow of the law was the offerings (the meat and drink offerings). That only makes sense.

NUMBERS 19 [2] This is the ORDINANCE OF THE LAW which the Lord hath commanded, saying, Speak unto the children of Israel, that they bring thee a red heifer without spot, wherein is no blemish, and upon which never came yoke:

Before Christ the red heifers lived their lives in fear, thinking they might be next offering. They need not worry no more.

JOHN 6 [55] For my flesh is MEAT indeed, and my blood is DRINK indeed.

 

[Chowmah]

One more set of scriptures proving....


NUMBERS 18 [8] And the LORD spake unto Aaron, Behold, I also have given thee the charge of mine heave offerings of all the hallowed things of the children of Israel; unto thee have I given them by reason of the anointing, and to thy sons, BY AN ORDINANCE for ever.[9] This shall be thine of the most holy things, reserved from the fire: EVERY OBLATION of theirs, EVERY MEAT OFFERING of theirs, and EVERY SIN OFFERING of theirs, and every trespass offering of theirs, which they shall render unto me, shall be most holy for thee and for thy sons.

Above scripture confirms that the offerings are also called oblations

ISAIAH 1 [10] Hear the word of the LORD, ye rulers of Sodom; give ear unto the law of our God, ye people of Gomorrah.[11] To what purpose is the multitude of your sacrifices unto me? saith the LORD: I AM FULL OF THE BURNT OFFERINGS of rams, and the fat of fed beasts; and I delight not in the blood of bullocks, or of lambs, or of he goats.[12] When ye come to appear before me, who hath required this at your hand, to tread my courts?[13] BRING NO MORE VAIN OBLATIONS; incense is an abomination unto me; THE NEW MOONS AND SABBATHS, the calling of assemblies, I cannot away with; it is iniquity, even the solemn meeting.[14] Your new moons and your APPOINTED FEASTS my soul hateth: they are a trouble unto me; I am weary to bear them.

Bring no more vain oblations in the new moons and the sabbath and feast days. WHY? Because Jesus nailed these offerings (oblations) to the cross. The sabbath, the new moons, and holydays (feastdays) were not nailed to the cross nor were the 10 commandments.

HEBREWS 10 [7] Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God. [8] Above when he said, SACRIFICE AND OFFERING AND BURNT OFFERINGS AND OFFERING FOR SIN THOU WOULDEST NOT, NEITHER HADST PLEASURE THEREIN; WHICH ARE OFFERED BY THE LAW; [9] Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. HE TAKETH AWAY THE FIRST, THAT HE MAY ESTABLISH THE SECOND. [10] By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. [11] And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins: [12] But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;

Hebrews 10 explains exactly what Isaiah 1 was speaking about.

COL.2 [14] Blotting out THE HANDWRITING OF ORDINANCES that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;[15] And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.[16] Let no man therefore judge you in MEAT, or in DRINK, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:[17] Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

JOHN 6 [53] Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you. [54] Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day. [55] For MY FLESH IS MEAT INDEED, and MY BLOOD IS DRINK INDEED.

 

[Chowmah]

Last but not least

COL. 2 [16] Let no man therefore judge you in MEAT, or in DRINK, or in respect of an HOLYDAY, or of the NEW MOON, or of the SABBATH DAYS:

As I said before, Col.2{16} is used by all sunday mornin denominations so as to rid themselves of Gods sabbath day and His holy days. Its also used to go against Gods laws concerning eating unclean things such as the portly porker. Can their doctrines be found in the scriptures by looking at the followers of the RISEN Christ?

ACTS 18 [20] When they desired him to tarry longer time with them, he consented not; [21] But bade them farewell, saying, I MUST BY ALL MEANS KEEP THIS FEAST THAT COMETH IN JERUSALEM: but I will return again unto you, if God will. And he sailed from Ephesus.

Not here. Here we find Paul keeping one of the feast days in Jersalem long after Christ had been crucified

1 COR. 5 [6] Your glorying is not good. Know ye not that a little leaven leaveneth the whole lump? [7] Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us: [8] THEREFORE LET US KEEP THE FEAST, not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness; but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.

This also is after Christ had risen. They were still keeping the Feast of unleavened bread but not as they did before. Before Christ there was to be no leven in the house. After Christ was crucified the laws contained in the ordinances were nailed to the cross. So have yourself a peanut butter and jelly.

ACTS 17 [2] AND PAUL, AS HIS MANNER WAS, went in unto them, and three SABBATH DAYS reasoned with them out of the scriptures,[3] Opening and alleging, that Christ must needs have suffered, and risen again from the dead; and that this Jesus, whom I preach unto you, is Christ.

Not here either. Paul as his manner was... still keeping the sabbath

ACTS 10 [11] And saw heaven opened, and a certain vessel descending unto him, as it had been a great sheet knit at the four corners, and let down to the earth: [12] Wherein were all manner of fourfooted beasts of the earth, and wild beasts, and creeping things, and fowls of the air. [13] And there came a voice to him, Rise, Peter; kill, and eat. [14] BUT PETER SAID, NOT SO, LORD; FOR I HAVE NEVER EATEN ANY THING THAT IS COMMON OR UNCLEAN.

Once again, not here either. Peter refused to eat the unclean thing even after the risen Christ.

ACTS 10 [28] And he said unto them, Ye know how that it is an unlawful thing for a man that is a Jew to keep company, or come unto one of another nation; but GOD HATH SHEWED ME THAT I SHOULD NOT CALL ANY MAN COMMON OR UNCLEAN.

Verse 28 explains the great sheet. No man is now unclean

JOEL 1 [13] Gird yourselves, and lament, ye priests: howl, ye ministers of the altar: come, lie all night in sackcloth, ye ministers of my God: for THE MEAT OFFERING AND THE DRINK OFFERING IS WITHHOLDEN FROM THE HOUSE OF YOUR GOD. [14] Sanctify ye a fast, call a solemn assembly, gather the elders and all the inhabitants of the land into the house of the Lord your God, and cry unto the Lord, [15] Alas for the day! for the day of the Lord is at hand, and as a destruction from the Almighty shall it come.

Don’t look good for some, come the Day of the Lord

 

[Dr. Walter]

Every Old Testament passage you care to quote is worthless unless you trace it back to its origin - The book of Leviticus where all these ceremonial laws are first instituted along with the new moons (new months in the feasts of Lev. 23) and the laws of clean and unclean (Lev. 10-25).

The whole Levitical system of ceremonial laws (sacrifices, dietary law, feasts with their new months, Jewish sabbath (Lev. 23:1-3) with the whole Sabbatical system (Lev. 23:4-44) are abolished according to Col. 2:14-16 along with all of the Old Covenant and its sign of the seventh day Sabbath.

Paul speaking to a mixed congregation of mostly Gentiles and jews says "NOTHING IS UNCLEAN OF ITSELF" (Rom. 14:14) when diet had been one of the main issues addressed. No Jew who believed in continuance of the Leviticual dietary Law could say those words unless he believed that dietary law was abolished. God's own word to Peter commanded Peter to no longer call "unclean" what God hath cleansed (Acts 10:15) and Peter had no doubts about what he saw and knew God was talking about as his later actions demonstrated he violated what he formerly considered not to be violated due to this command by God.

1. He admitted it had been "unlawful" for a Jew to enter a Gentile house and yet he entered due to his new understanding that God's prohibition to eat unclean beasts in part were designed to symbolize Gentiles thus confirming that such a law that commanded separation from the Gentiles was indeed true to this command.

2. He admitted he had never eaten unclean animals formerly to this command by God to no longer regard such animals as unclean but now "cleansed" but yet in Galatians 2:12 he no only entered into previously forbidden Gentiles houses but also did "EAT" with them. Only the presence of DIETARY JEWS intimidated him so that he withdrew from the dinner table and the homes of Gentiles. Paul rebuked him.

3. He, along with Paul, James and the whole church at Jerusalem fully well knew what Gentiles ate in contradiction to Mosaic dietary law and knowing fully well they were writing to gentile churches did not command the Gentiles to conform to the dietary law of Moses in their decree in Acts 15 and Paul with the same church interprets that decree again in Acts 21 where they make it clear that the ceremonial laws that Jews could freely observe were not to be enforced upon Gentiles:

Acts 21:24 Them take, and purify thyself with them, and be at charges with them, that they may shave their heads: and all may know that those things, whereof they were informed concerning thee, are nothing; but that thou thyself also walkest orderly, and keepest the law.
25 As touching the Gentiles which believe, we have written and concluded that they observe no such thing, save only that they keep themselves from things offered to idols, and from blood, and from strangled, and from fornication.

However, it does not matter how much Biblical evidence that is placed before your "seared" conscience, you are incapable of receiving the truth (1 Tim. 4:1-5).

Lets look back at what Col.2{16} is speaking of. It definately does not say what the sunday mornin denoinations claim it says

COL. 2 [16] Let no man therefore judge you in MEAT, or in DRINK, or in respect of an HOLYDAY, or of the NEW MOON, or of the SABBATH DAYS:

The scripture above is the scripture used by all the sunday go to meetin pulpiteers to distance themselves from Gods sabbath day. Its also their biggy to eat their piggy. There are many places in your bible which discuss the meat and the drink offerings of the holy days, new moons and the sabbath days which explain what Col.2 is speaking about but they are ignored by the “many”.

EZEKIEL 45 [17] And it shall be the prince's part to give burnt offerings, and MEAT offerings, and DRINK offerings, in the FEASTS, and in the NEW MOONS, and in the SABBATHS, in all solemnities of the house of Israel: he shall prepare the sin offering, and the meat offering, and the burnt offering, and the peace offerings, to make reconciliation for the house of Israel.

Heres one. Same exact order as Col.2{16}, meat, drink, holy days (feast days), new moons, sabbaths. What are the odds these 2 scriptures are not speaking about the same thing? A trillion to one? Do you believe that Ezek.45 is telling the old testament folks they no longer need keep Gods sabbath day or that its alright to go out and eat their piggys? Aint no way. Its simply speaking of the meat and drink offerings which were written in the law contained within the ordinances which were to take place on Gods holy days, new moons and His sabbath days. The many claim that the meat and drink spoken of in Col.2 are the unclean foods such as the oinker. If that were so please show me where any drink was said to be unclean. If there is an unclean drink ive yet to find it in the scriptures.

HEBREWS 13 [9] Be not carried about with divers and strange doctrines. For it is a good thing that the heart be ESTABLISHED WITH GRACE; NOT WITH MEATS, which have not profited them that have been occupied therein. [10] We have an altar, whereof they have no right to eat which serve the tabernacle. [11] For THE BODIES OF THOSE BEASTS, WHOSE BLOOD is brought into the sanctuary by the high priest for sin, are burned without the camp. [12] WHEREFORE JESUS ALSO, THAT HE MIGHT SANCTIFY THE PEOPLE WITH HIS OWN BLOOD, suffered without the gate.

So why should we judge no man in meat or drink in respect to holy days, new moons and sabbath days? Because Jesus fulfilled these offerings that were written in the law of commandments contained in the ordinances. Its the meat and drink offerings that are no more to be observed.

JOHN 6 [53] Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you. [54] Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day. [55] For MY FLESH IS MEAT INDEED, and MY BLOOD IS DRINK INDEED.

When we let scripture interpret scripture its very clear what Col.2 is speaking about. The meat and drink offerings of those days are no longer to be kept.

 

[Chowmah]

Every Old Testament passage you care to quote is worthless unless you trace it back to its origin - The book of Leviticus where all these ceremonial laws are first instituted along with the new moons (new months in the feasts of Lev. 23) and the laws of clean and unclean (Lev. 10-25).

The whole Levitical system of ceremonial laws (sacrifices, dietary law, feasts with their new months, Jewish sabbath (Lev. 23:1-3) with the whole Sabbatical system (Lev. 23:4-44) are abolished according to Col. 2:14-16 along with all of the Old Covenant and its sign of the seventh day Sabbath.

Paul speaking to a mixed congregation of mostly Gentiles and jews says "NOTHING IS UNCLEAN OF ITSELF" (Rom. 14:14) when diet had been one of the main issues addressed. No Jew who believed in continuance of the Leviticual dietary Law could say those words unless he believed that dietary law was abolished.

Sorry good Dr

2 COR. 6 [16] And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for YE ARE THE TEMPLE OF THE LIVING GOD; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. [17] Wherefore come out from among them, and BE YE SEPARATE, saith the Lord, AND TOUCH NOT THE UNCLEAN THING; and I will receive you, [18] And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty.

This NEW TESTAMENT scripture tells us as believers we are not to touch the unclean thing.

ISAIAH 52 [9] Break forth into joy, sing together, ye waste places of Jerusalem: for the Lord hath comforted his people, he hath REDEEMED Jerusalem. [10] The Lord hath made bare his holy arm in the eyes of all the nations; and all the ends of the earth shall see the SALVATION of our God. [11] Depart ye, depart ye, GO YE OUT from thence, TOUCH NO UNCLEAN THING; GO YE OUT OF THE MIDST OF HER; be ye clean, that bear the vessels of the Lord. [12] For ye shall not go out with haste, nor go by flight: for the Lord will go before you; and the God of Israel will be your rereward.

Redeemed. Salvation. Words you would find in the new testament concerning Jesus. And as is always the case, you will find whats being said in the new testament has already been said in the old or prophecied.

LEVITICUS 20 [22] Ye shall therefore keep all my statutes, and all my judgments, and do them: that the land, whither I bring you to dwell therein, spue you not out. [23] And ye shall not walk in the manners of the nation, which I cast out before you: for they committed all these things, and therefore I abhorred them. [24] But I have said unto you, Ye shall inherit their land, and I will give it unto you to possess it, a land that floweth with milk and honey: I AM THE LORD YOUR GOD, WHICH HAVE SEPARATED YOU from other people. [25] YE SHALL THEREFORE PUT DIFFERENCE BETWEEN CLEAN BEASTS AND UNCLEAN, and between unclean fowls and clean: and ye shall not make your souls abominable by beast, or by fowl, or by any manner of living thing that creepeth on the ground, which I have separated from you as unclean. [26] And ye shall be holy unto me: for I the Lord am holy, and have severed you from other people, THAT YE SHOULD BE MINE.

Be ye separate.

DEUT. 14 [8] And the swine, because it divideth the hoof, yet cheweth not the cud, it is unclean unto you: ye shall not eat of their flesh, nor touch their dead carcase.

Everywhere theres lots of piggies....

ISAIAH 66 [15] For, behold, the Lord will come with fire, and with his chariots like a whirlwind, to render his anger with fury, and his rebuke with flames of fire. [16] For by fire and by his sword will the Lord plead with all flesh: and the slain of the Lord shall be many. [17] They that sanctify themselves, and purify themselves in the gardens behind one tree in the midst, EATING SWINE'S FLESH, and the abomination, and the mouse, shall be consumed together, saith the Lord.

The above scripture is speaking of the “Day of the Lord”. On that day, the fat lady sings. Because that day has not yet arrived, the people who do not want to believe these scriptures cannot claim its for ancient Israel. Theres one God, and His people one. There are not different rules for different people when the Day of the Lord arrives.

 

[Chowmah]

Every Old Testament passage you care to quote is worthless unless you trace it back to its origin -

Again, not so good Dr

MATT.13 [51] Jesus saith unto them, Have ye understood all these things? They say unto him, Yea, Lord. [52] Then said he unto them, Therefore EVERY SCRIBE WHICH IS INSTRUCTED UNTO THE KINGDOM OF HEAVEN is like unto a man that is an householder, which BRINGETH FORTH OUT OF HIS TREASURE THINGS NEW AND OLD.

Old and new. What many have done is throw away the old testament and then they will take one liners out of the new testament and try to interpret the scripture. Cant be done. This leads to many interpretations of the new testament and many different doctrines which leads to many different denominations.

ACTS 17 [10] And the brethren immediately sent away Paul and Silas by night unto Berea: who coming thither went into the synagogue of the Jews. [11] These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that THEY RECEIVED THE WORD WITH ALL READINESS OF MIND, AND SEARCHED THE SCRIPTURES DAILY, WHETHER THOSE THINGS WERE SO. [12] Therefore many of them believed; also of honourable women which were Greeks, and of men, not a few.

As you can see in the above scripture, the people who knew what they were doing, when they first heard Pauls words, search the old testament scriptures to see if what Paul was saying was true.

2 TIM. 3 [14] But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them; [15] And THAT FROM A CHILD THOU HAST KNOWN THE HOLY SCRIPTURES, WHICH ARE ABLE TO MAKE THEE WISE UNTO SALVATION through faith which is in Christ Jesus. [16] All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: [17] That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

The old testament were the only scriptures around at this time. Wise unto salvation. The new only verifies the old.

 

[Chowmah]

Paul speaking to a mixed congregation of mostly Gentiles and jews says "NOTHING IS UNCLEAN OF ITSELF" (Rom. 14:14) when diet had been one of the main issues addressed. No Jew who believed in continuance of the Leviticual dietary Law could say those words unless he believed that dietary law was abolished.

ROMANS 14[1] Him that is weak in the faith receive ye, but not to doubtful disputations.[2] For one believeth that he may eat all things: another, who is weak, eateth herbs.[3] Let not him that eateth despise him that eateth not; and let not him which eateth not judge him that eateth: for God hath received him

As you can see Doc, your not quoting scripture in context. This passage is speaking of those who claim all meats are unclean such as the 7th day adventist claim. They claim they are only to eat veggys

 

[Chowmah]

Hey Doc

Amos.3
[7] Surely the Lord GOD will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets.

Could you show me in the books of the prophets where the WORD says that HIS law would be done away with

 

[Chowmah]

Matthew 5:17-20
Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. [18] For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

I know the earth aint past cause im standing on it till this day

 

[Dr. Walter]

Sorry good Dr

2 COR. 6 [16] And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for YE ARE THE TEMPLE OF THE LIVING GOD; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. [17] Wherefore come out from among them, and BE YE SEPARATE, saith the Lord, AND TOUCH NOT THE UNCLEAN THING; and I will receive you, [18] And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty.

This NEW TESTAMENT scripture tells us as believers we are not to touch the unclean thing.

You really don't care much about context do you? The context is FALSE RELIGION and FALSE WORSHIP not the Mosaic ceremonial laws of clean versus unclean or the dietary laws. However, just for the fun of it, let's say you are correct! Do you follow the ceremonial laws of Moses?? If you get sick, do you follow what the laws of clean and unclean teach in regard to planting your garden or the materials used in your clothing or the sick person? Since we are all preists before God do you practice the laws of clean and unclean in regard to the ministry? Only if you believe and practice such things have you the right to even think the above text has your application in view? Even then, the context is not the ceremonial law of Moses but Paul is talking about SPIRITUAL unclean things! The ceremonial law were PHYSICAL designed to teach SPIRITUAL truths. The PHYSICAL has been abolished (Col. 2:14-16) but the SPIRITUAL and MORAL applications remain!

The ceremonial dietary law is abolished but the spiritual applications (Acts 10) remain!

 

[Dr. Walter]

Again, not so good Dr

MATT.13 [51] Jesus saith unto them, Have ye understood all these things? They say unto him, Yea, Lord. [52] Then said he unto them, Therefore EVERY SCRIBE WHICH IS INSTRUCTED UNTO THE KINGDOM OF HEAVEN is like unto a man that is an householder, which BRINGETH FORTH OUT OF HIS TREASURE THINGS NEW AND OLD.

Again, you don't care about context do you? This is the illustration used for those who understand the parables given in Matthew 13 which have NOTHING to do with the Law of Moses or the ceremonial law but the distinction between true and false professors in God's kingdom on earth.

This kind of hermeneutics explains how confused and messed up your mind is and how "seared" it is against the truth.

 

[Chowmah]

PSALM 78 [1] Give ear, O my people, to my law: incline your ears to the words of my mouth.[2] I WILL OPEN MY MOUTH IN A PARABLE: I will utter dark sayings of old:[3] Which we have heard and known, and our fathers have told us.[4] We will not hide them from their children, shewing to the generation to come the praises of the LORD, and his strength, and his wonderful works that he hath done.[5] For he established a testimony in Jacob, and appointed a law in Israel, which he commanded our fathers, that they should make them known to their children:[6] That the generation to come might know them, even the children which should be born; who should arise and declare them to their children:[7] That they might set their hope in God, AND NOT FORGET THE WORKS OF GOD, BUT KEEP HIS COMMANDMENTS:[8] And might not be as their fathers, a stubborn and rebellious generation; a generation that set not their heart aright, and whose spirit was not stedfast with God.[9] The children of Ephraim, being armed, and carrying bows, turned back in the day of battle.[10] THEY KEPT NOT THE COVENANT OF GOD, AND REFUSED TO WALK IN HIS LAW;[11] AND FORGAT HIS WORKS, and his wonders that he had shewed them.

You do know who spoke in parables, do you not? Whats He say about your kicking His law to the curb?

 

[Dr. Walter]

ROMANS 14[1] Him that is weak in the faith receive ye, but not to doubtful disputations.[2] For one believeth that he may eat all things: another, who is weak, eateth herbs.[3] Let not him that eateth despise him that eateth not; and let not him which eateth not judge him that eateth: for God hath received him

As you can see Doc, your not quoting scripture in context. This passage is speaking of those who claim all meats are unclean such as the 7th day adventist claim. They claim they are only to eat veggys

This is almost too humerous to pass up! Who is the weak Christian here and who is the strong one? The strong one is he who "beleives he can eat all things"? Do you believe you can "EAT ALL THINGS" or do you believe you are under dietary restrictions?????????? The weak Christian is one who RESTRICTS his diet!

You cannot possibly stick to the literal words "EAT ALL THINGS" with Paul's conclusion this is the STRONG believer unto whom "NOTHING IS UNCLEAN OF ITSELF" and believe Paul taught gentiles to practice the dietary law of Moses! Impossible!

 

[Chowmah]

ACTS 10 [11] And saw heaven opened, and a certain vessel descending unto him, as it had been a great sheet knit at the four corners, and let down to the earth: [12] Wherein were all manner of fourfooted beasts of the earth, and wild beasts, and creeping things, and fowls of the air. [13] And there came a voice to him, Rise, Peter; kill, and eat. [14] BUT PETER SAID, NOT SO, LORD; FOR I HAVE NEVER EATEN ANY THING THAT IS COMMON OR UNCLEAN.

So your makin the claim that Peter was weak in faith and you are stronger than he in faith. I would have to disagree