And all of Gods people said "Amen".
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concealed carry classes
- Thread starter Tom Bryant
- Start date
Oh thank you my friend for a good rollicking laugh early in the morning. Laughter is good for our health.
And have a most blessed day.
A friend sent this to me...
Florida woman stops alligator attack with a small pistol.
This is a story of self-control and marksmanship by a brave, cool-headed woman with a small pistol against a fierce predator. What is the smallest caliber that you would trust to protect yourself? A Beretta Jetfire testimonial.
Here is her story in her own words: "While out walking along the edge of a pond just outside of The Villages with my soon to be ex-husband discussing property settlement and other divorce issues, we were surprised by a huge 12-ft. alligator which suddenly emerged from the murky water, and began charging us with its large jaws wide open."
"She must have been protecting her nest because she was extremely aggressive. If I had not had my little Beretta Jetfire .25 caliber pistol with me, I would not be here today!"
"Just one shot to my estranged husband's kneecap was all it took." .....
Rob
Florida woman stops alligator attack with a small pistol.
This is a story of self-control and marksmanship by a brave, cool-headed woman with a small pistol against a fierce predator. What is the smallest caliber that you would trust to protect yourself? A Beretta Jetfire testimonial.
Here is her story in her own words: "While out walking along the edge of a pond just outside of The Villages with my soon to be ex-husband discussing property settlement and other divorce issues, we were surprised by a huge 12-ft. alligator which suddenly emerged from the murky water, and began charging us with its large jaws wide open."
"She must have been protecting her nest because she was extremely aggressive. If I had not had my little Beretta Jetfire .25 caliber pistol with me, I would not be here today!"
"Just one shot to my estranged husband's kneecap was all it took." .....
Rob
Your opinion of someone else honorableness is not an excuse for your behavior.
And you re-enter the thread with another insult.
Show me where I insulted him in this thread. I only ask him to answer a question. He replied with insults as I showed you and ask you to tell me who had insulted the other and how it was done.
As usual you were silent. Not honorable of you to accuse but not answer questions.
So reread that post and tell me who was rude and how they were rude. Thanks in advance.
More twisting of my words. Pointing out your error is not an insult. But then you already knew that. At your age you should be beyond all this.
Shame you don't feel that way about people who hold to reformed theology.
Rev. still waiting for an answer. All I am asking is that SAG backup his words with examples from Jesus' life and teachings.
Originally Posted by Crabtownboy
Show me words from the Prince of Peace that supports the idea proposed in the OP. Thanks.
First, show us where it doesn't. Thank you!
Sag replied with this insult:
If everyone used Crab's cowardly false use of the scripture we would all be speaking German or Japaneses and many would be helpless victims of those who don't give a blank about human life. Of course we all know Crab belief that life doesn't start until it exits the womb. Before that, it's just a fetus. His brand of Bible interpretation, politics, and stance on abortion are of the most reprehensible on this board.
I replied:
I did as you requested. Sorry you do not like the words of Christ. Now please reply to my question. I honored your question. Now honor mine or show that you are dishonorable in either refusing or by remain quiet.
Where does Jesus teach that carrying concealed weapons is all right, and especially it is fine to have weapons classes in a church?
Then Sag replied telling what he surely knows is not true.
Quote:
Of course we all know Crab belief that life doesn't start until it exits the womb. Before that, it's just a fetus. His brand of Bible interpretation, politics, and stance on abortion are of the most reprehensible on this board.
And I replied:
As I have said I repeatedly that I am against abortion it appears
you now say that being against abortion is reprehensible. Strang of you to do so.
Then SAG replied with another insult:
The chameleon speaks. He is like President Obama who speaks to the audience what he thinks they want to hear but hides what he really believes. But, he has forgotton what he said at a different time which conflicts with his current statement.
Again I asked him to answer the question in my reply as follows:
I kindly answered your question and you implied you would then answer mine. I am still waiting for your to honor and reply to my question which was:
Show me words from the Prince of Peace that supports the idea proposed in the OP. Thanks.
Our next exchange was as follows:
Originally Posted by sag38
Crab, you go to your church and I will go to mine because we will never agree on this subject and many others for that matter.
You are probably right in our not agreeing. However that does not mean you should honor your saying I had to answer before you would. I answered. Now, if you are honorable, you should reply to the question.
Show me where Christ taught it is all right to carry a concealed, or indeed an exposed, weapon into a worship service. That is your stance. You say, or at the very least imply, this is a Christian stance. All I want is for you to show me where Christ approved of this. Do the honorable thing and reply.
Sag replied as follows:
All one has to do is a quick perusal of said poster's pattern on this site to determine that said poster has no clue what constitutes true honor.
I replied:
You are proficient in your ability to attempt to insult others. Now how about answering the question.
Originally Posted by Crabtownboy
Show me words from the Prince of Peace that supports the idea proposed in the OP. Thanks.
First, show us where it doesn't. Thank you!
Sag replied with this insult:
If everyone used Crab's cowardly false use of the scripture we would all be speaking German or Japaneses and many would be helpless victims of those who don't give a blank about human life. Of course we all know Crab belief that life doesn't start until it exits the womb. Before that, it's just a fetus. His brand of Bible interpretation, politics, and stance on abortion are of the most reprehensible on this board.
I replied:
I did as you requested. Sorry you do not like the words of Christ. Now please reply to my question. I honored your question. Now honor mine or show that you are dishonorable in either refusing or by remain quiet.
Where does Jesus teach that carrying concealed weapons is all right, and especially it is fine to have weapons classes in a church?
Then Sag replied telling what he surely knows is not true.
Quote:
Of course we all know Crab belief that life doesn't start until it exits the womb. Before that, it's just a fetus. His brand of Bible interpretation, politics, and stance on abortion are of the most reprehensible on this board.
And I replied:
As I have said I repeatedly that I am against abortion it appears
you now say that being against abortion is reprehensible. Strang of you to do so.
Then SAG replied with another insult:
The chameleon speaks. He is like President Obama who speaks to the audience what he thinks they want to hear but hides what he really believes. But, he has forgotton what he said at a different time which conflicts with his current statement.
Again I asked him to answer the question in my reply as follows:
I kindly answered your question and you implied you would then answer mine. I am still waiting for your to honor and reply to my question which was:
Show me words from the Prince of Peace that supports the idea proposed in the OP. Thanks.
Our next exchange was as follows:
Originally Posted by sag38
Crab, you go to your church and I will go to mine because we will never agree on this subject and many others for that matter.
You are probably right in our not agreeing. However that does not mean you should honor your saying I had to answer before you would. I answered. Now, if you are honorable, you should reply to the question.
Show me where Christ taught it is all right to carry a concealed, or indeed an exposed, weapon into a worship service. That is your stance. You say, or at the very least imply, this is a Christian stance. All I want is for you to show me where Christ approved of this. Do the honorable thing and reply.
Sag replied as follows:
All one has to do is a quick perusal of said poster's pattern on this site to determine that said poster has no clue what constitutes true honor.
I replied:
You are proficient in your ability to attempt to insult others. Now how about answering the question.
Sapper Woody
Well-Known Member
But, you didn't answer the question. The verses you supposed answered the question had nothing to do with the question.
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I respectfully disagree.
I am still waiting for a reply from Rev. and SAG on where they see any indication from the life of Christ and his teachings to support carrying a concealed weapon into a worship service. I did see a reply from SAG, not an answer but a reply just ahead of yours.
Can you answer the question. Please do nt quote the OT. Only from the life and teachings of Christ in the gospels. Thanks in advance.
Sapper Woody
Well-Known Member
I've dealt with this extensively before. As the thread has decidedly turned this direction, I'll be happy to do so again once I get to my computer.
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Sent from my QTAQZ3 using Tapatalk
Sapper Woody
Well-Known Member
I almost didn't reply, because of this ignorance right here. "Don't use the OT". In other words, "The whole Bible doesn't count. Only these four books". Well, I believe that "All scripture was given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:" - 2 Timothy 3:16.
But, for the sake of argument and furthering the discussion, I'll give in to your asinine request and present things found only in the gospels. I'm going to take this point by point.
Warning! Wall of text incoming!
First, I'll respond to your postings:
It doesn't say "Blessed are the pacifists". It says "peacemakers". If a man comes into a church, home, business, or anywhere else with an intent to kill, who is the peacemaker? The one who allows him to destroy lives, creating orphans, widows, grieving loved ones? Or the man who stops him, minimizing the damage?Crabtownboy said:
The answer is obviously the second one. He created more peace by stepping in and taking action, than by standing by and allowing innocents to be harmed.
A command to Peter. Not to the church. Not to us. A command for that situation, in that time. If Peter had continued his assault, then one of two things would have happened: either Peter would have perished (and it seems that this is what Christ was saying), or they would have fought their way out, and then Christ would not have been crucified then. Christ knew the possible outcomes, and neither were permissible. So, he warned Peter that if he continued his brave, but ultimately pointless path, he'd meet an untimely demise.
This is talking about five things, none of which is self defense. First, it is talking about revenge (eye for an eye), which I don't think anyone would disagree is wrong. Then it is talking about an insult. "Slap" is meant as an offense, and not an attack. It is not to cause harm, but to cause humiliation.
Then He goes on to talk about being sued. There's several thoughts about this, but that's not the point of this thread. The point is, it's not talking about self defense.
Next, he is talking about the Roman rule in which they could force a Jew (or any citizen) to carry their pack for a mile. To show dissent, the common practice was to go the mile, and drop the load carried right there in defiance, and leave. Christ is telling them that this is not a good testimony.
Lastly, it is talking about hate. Love/hate have absolutely zero to do with self defense. Anyone who thinks otherwise is wrong. You can shoot someone in self defense, and then pray for his recovery, forgive him, and even nurse him yourself. You can love and defend, the same as you can hate someone and hug them. (Every church has that one old woman that nobody really likes, but they try to love her anyway. We've all been there.)
Now, on to my points:
1. Stewardship
Luke 12:42-46 - And the Lord said, Who then is that faithful and wise steward, whom [his] lord shall make ruler over his household, to give [them their] portion of meat in due season?
Matthew 25:14 For [the kingdom of heaven is] as a man travelling into a far country, [who] called his own servants, and delivered unto them his goods. (15) And unto one he gave five talents, to another two, and to another one; to every man according to his several ability; and straightway took his journey. (I am assuming you know the rest of the story).
John 3:27 - John answered and said, A man can receive nothing, except it be given him from heaven.
Luke 16:11 - If therefore ye have not been faithful in the unrighteous mammon, who will commit to your trust the true [riches]?
All these verses talk about stewardship (with John 3:27 being the exception, yet furthering my point). God gives us things, and he expects us to take care of them. This includes defense of those things. If we do not defend those things that he has given us, we are worse than the servant who buried his talents. At least he had the original to give back. If we allow someone to take what we are given, then we have less to give back than what we were given before.
With this in mind, it is actually sin to not defend what God has given you.
2. Protection of Others
Luke 17:2 It were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he cast into the sea, than that he should offend one of these little ones.
If you stand idly by while an innocent is hurt, you are guilty of the offence. You are a party to it. If a woman is getting molested, and you do nothing, you have enabled it. If a man is destroying God's property, and you do not stop it, you are enabling it.
If you stand idly by and allow yourself to be killed, leaving behind a widow and/or orphans, you are enabling it! You are guilty of the offense. According to Jesus, you'd be better off being drowned than allowing this.
3. Love Your Neighbor
An oft misused text: Mark 12:31 And the second is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these.
Let's look at this in light of the story of the good Samaritan. We all know the story. It starts by a lawyer quoting that we should love our neighbors. Then he asks in Luke 10:29, "And who is my neighbour?" Christ then tells the story, and at the end, Christ asks in Luke 10:36, "Which now of these three, thinkest thou, was neighbour unto him that fell among the thieves?"
With this question, Christ posits that only one of the three were his neighbor. The lawyer answered in verse 37, "He that shewed mercy on him."
Christ didn't jump on him and say, "No! All of them were his neighbor!" He said, "Go, and do thou likewise."
So, we see plainly here that not everyone is our neighbor. Yes, love your neighbor. But just like the first two men who passed the beaten man, a man who is trying to kill you is not your neighbor. So, even though it is possible to love and act in self defense, we aren't even commanded to do so! Loving while acting in self defense is going above and beyond, and will surely be rewarded, but it is not commanded.
4. Greater Love
I've used this argument before, and I bring it up again. Let's continue under the assumption that you are commanded to love everyone, since you will doubtless reject my previous of point.
A man breaks into your house, and wants to kill you. You are faced with a choice: disable him (possibly killing him in the process), or die. Which one shows the more love? Let's look at it closely.
Keep this in mind: the man is already going to be taken into custody, which will take him away from his family, no matter what you do. There is no changing that he will no longer be with his family.
So, if you disable, possibly kill, him. There is no further consequences from his actions.
However, in your seeming love for him, you allow him to kill you. Now, even if he doesn't do anything to the rest of your family, and just leaves, he is still taken into custody, leaving his family. But now, not only is his family out a husband/father/grandfather, etc, so is yours.
By not taking action, you have done the opposite of love, and be a peacemaker. You have doubled the consequences of his actions. But now, instead of all the blame being laid at his feet, half of the blame now rests at yours.
Which is the greater love? Allowing consequences to fall on his family that will fall on his family anyway, or also allowing the consequences to fall on your family?
5. Faith
Despite your repeated attempts to turn this into a Faith issue, it is not. The only way to maintain credibility and say that if you carry a weapon you have no faith, is to not carry insurance, never lock your doors, let your wife walk down dark alleys alone, don't wear your seatbelt, and the list goes on and on. But you refuse to see this obvious, blatant hypocrisy in front of you.
It is not a matter of faith. It is a matter of preparedness to protect what God has given you.
An amusing anecdote that helps my point:
During a flood, a family was forced to gather on the roof of their house. After a time, a man in a little john boat comes by, offering them a ride. "No thanks! We have faith that God will save us!" The waters continued to rise, and eventually a Coast Guard boat comes by to rescue them. "No thanks! We have faith that God will save us!" Finally, a helicopter come by, and drops a ladder down to them. "No thank! We have faith that God will save us!" The family all died.
They get to Heaven, and the father asks God, "We had faith that you'd save us! Why didn't you?" And God replied, "I sent two boats and a helicopter."
This is what carrying a firearm is. It is using the means that God has provided to protect yourself and your family, instead of foolishly disregarding the avenue He has provided in the name of "faith".
Now, I'd love to hear your reply, CTB. When/If you do reply, make sure to include a rebuttal to ALL my points, instead of trying to snipe them, and remember to use Bible verses and/or doctrine. I personally don't think you can.
Excellent rebuttal Woody!!
Love the last paragraph specifically - anxious to see the result!! :thumbsup:
Love the last paragraph specifically - anxious to see the result!! :thumbsup:
Tom Bryant
Well-Known Member
Jesus is my Savior and I am following him by accepting all the Bible.
But I am also following Him who brought a whip into the Temple where the presence of God dwelt. So if I take a weapon into church, I am following the Lord Jesus.
Tom Bryant
Well-Known Member
So are you going to respond to what he said or will you just respond to people who responded positively to Woody's good work.