Confession, Repentance: discerning the truth.

[agedman]

In a near thread, repentance was mentioned, and I thought:

“I wonder if some on the B.B. consider them the same?”

At the dedication of Solomon’s Temple given, in 2 Chronicles, is this passage:

11Thus Solomon finished the house of the LORD and the king’s palace, and successfully completed all that he had planned on doing in the house of the LORDand in his palace.

12Then the LORD appeared to Solomon at night and said to him, “I have heard your prayer and have chosen this place for Myself as a house of sacrifice. 13“If I shut up the heavens so that there is no rain, or if I command the locust to devour the land, or if I send pestilence among My people, 14and My people who are called by My name humble themselves and pray and seek My face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, will forgive their sin and will heal their land. 15“Now My eyes will be open and My ears attentive to the prayer offered in this place. 16“For now I have chosen and consecrated this house that My name may be there forever, and My eyes and My heart will be there perpetually. 17“As for you, if you walk before Me as your father David walked, even to do according to all that I have commanded you, and will keep My statutes and My ordinances, 18then I will establish your royal throne as I covenanted with your father David, saying, ‘You shall not lack a man to be ruler in Israel.’
​

Is the phrase “turn from their wicked ways,” repentance, or confession, or some other item?

In 1 John 1 it is written:

5This is the message we have heard from Him and announce to you, that God is Light, and in Him there is no darkness at all. 6If we say that we have fellowship with Him and yet walk in the darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth; 7but if we walk in the Light as He Himself is in the Light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus His Son cleanses us from all sin. 8If we say that we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us. 9If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar and His word is not in us.​

Is the word “confess” to be considered as repentance or confession or both?

Are they the same and interchangeable?

If not, are they both necessary, and if they are both necessary, why?

If they are both necessary yet separate, is there an order of which comes first, or are both simultaneous?

Is there another question that should be included in the thread?

Be certain to include Scripture with your response so there is foundation upon which to consider truth.

 

[Martin Marprelate]

I expect that many people here know that the Greek word translated 'repent' is metanoieo. It signifies a change of mind-- "I've been going this way up to now, but from here on I'm going God's way." So it is pretty much the same as 'turning from wicked ways.'

To 'confess' is to make an actual verbal admission of one's sins. so the word is not identical with 'repent' but those who do repent will also want to confess their sins to God.

I think that one of the most important points concerning 2 Chronicles 7:14 is that humbling oneself comes before prayer. Pride makes us enemies of God (James 4:6-10); indeed, it is an abomination to Him (Proverbs 6:16-17).

 

[Reformed]

Confession of sin without repentance is meaningless. Repentance is obvious in the 2 Chronicles passage you cited. It is heavily implied 1 John 1. A few verses later the Apostle John writes:

1 John 2:3-6 3 By this we know that we have come to know Him, if we keep His commandments. 4 The one who says, “I have come to know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him; 5 but whoever keeps His word, in him the love of God has truly been perfected. By this we know that we are in Him: 6 the one who says he abides in Him ought himself to walk in the same manner as He walked.

So, we see that confession of sin is immediately followed by keeping the Lord's commandments.

 

[Mr. Davis]

Is someone saved by faith alone?

Or, by faith plus repentance?

The thief on the Cross had faith alone, didn't he?

Or, are faith and repentance gifts of God, coming
out of Regeneration, made effectual in the believer
by the Spirit of God?

 

[Reformed]

Is someone saved by faith alone?

Or, by faith plus repentance?

The thief on the Cross had faith alone, didn't he?

Or, are faith and repentance gifts of God, coming
out of Regeneration, made effectual in the believer
by the Spirit of God?

Genuine faith produces repentance. One cannot come to the light without turning from the darkness.

 

[Mr. Davis]

Genuine faith produces repentance. One cannot come to the light without turning from the darkness.

How does one make "this turn"?

By one's own efforts; (in the flesh); while a captive of the Enemy?

 

[Reformed]

How does one make "this turn"?

By one's own efforts; (in the flesh); while a captive of the Enemy?

By the power of the Holy Spirit. The heart is regenerated (by the Holy Spirit) with faith and repentance following.

 

[Saved-By-Grace]

By the power of the Holy Spirit. The heart is regenerated (by the Holy Spirit) with faith and repentance following.

So a sinner is "born-again" BEFORE they "repent"?

 

[Jerome]

By the power of the Holy Spirit. The heart is regenerated (by the Holy Spirit) with faith and repentance following.

You suppose that faith follows regeneration.

For your instruction:

Timothy George, Theology of the Reformers:

"being placed into Christ (insitio in Christo) occurs in regeneration which, Calvin was careful to point out, follows from faith as its result"


John Calvin, Commentary on Jn 8:32

"when the Lord regenerates us by his Spirit, he likewise makes us free, so that, loosed from the snares of Satan, we willingly obey righteousness. But regeneration proceeds from faith"


John Calvin, Commentary on Rom 4:16:

"Here, in the first place, the Apostle shows, that nothing is set before faith but mere grace;...Hence, also, we may easily learn, that grace is not to be taken, as some imagine, for the gift of regeneration,"


Belgic Confession:

"We believe that this true faith being wrought in man by the hearing of the Word of God, and the operation of the Holy Ghost, doth regenerate and make him a new man"

 

[Martin Marprelate]

For your instruction:

And for yours:
Baptist 1689 Confession (XIV:1).
'The grace of faith by which the elect are enabled to believe, so that their souls are saved, is the work of the Spirit of Christ un their hearts [2 Corinthians 4:13; Ephesians 2:8] and is ordinarily brought into being by the ministry of the Word [Romans 10:14-17]
Also:
"Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jonah! For flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but My Father who is in heaven' (Matthew 16:17).
'The Lord opened [Lydia's] heart to pay attention to what was said by Paul' (Acts 16:14).
'No one can say, "Jesus is Lord" except by the Holy Spirit' (1 Corinthians 12:3).

 

[agedman]

So a sinner is "born-again" BEFORE they "repent"?

Short answer, yes.

Longer answer would use verses Martin already suggested.

The quickening of the Holy Spirit must be in play for the person to have “Godly repentance” or such repentance remains from the ungodly mind and heart that receives nothing of the Spirit.

Too often, there are those who look for something humankind must do in order to be saved.

But if there is anything prior or the catalyst of salvation that is other then God, such places humans as the author and not Christ.

He is either the author or He is not the finisher.

 

[Saved-By-Grace]

Short answer, yes.

Longer answer would use verses Martin already suggested.

The quickening of the Holy Spirit must be in play for the person to have “Godly repentance” or such repentance remains from the ungodly mind and heart that receives nothing of the Spirit.

Too often, there are those who look for something humankind must do in order to be saved.

But if there is anything prior or the catalyst of salvation that is other then God, such places humans as the author and not Christ.

He is either the author or He is not the finisher.

Yes, the Bible says that all sinners must DO something before they can get saved. Read very carefully

"Now when they heard this they were cut to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, “Brothers, what shall we DO?...And Peter said to them, “Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit" (Acts 2:37-38)

Jesus Himself said, "unless you REPENT (DO) you will likewise perish" (Luke 13: 3, 5)

"what good thing must I DO to have eternal life?" (Matthew 19:16)

"When God saw what they DID and how they turned from their evil ways (REPENTED), he relented and did not bring on them the destruction he had threatened" (Jonah 3:10)

These all, like all sinners, RESPOND to the "convicting" (John 16:8-9), not "conversion" of the Holy Spirit, Who AFTER they have truly repented FIRST, "regenerates" their hearts!

This, my friend is what the Holy Bible very plainly says. Humans will of course twist and distort it!

 

[Reformed]

And for yours:
Baptist 1689 Confession (XIV:1).
'The grace of faith by which the elect are enabled to believe, so that their souls are saved, is the work of the Spirit of Christ un their hearts [2 Corinthians 4:13; Ephesians 2:8] and is ordinarily brought into being by the ministry of the Word [Romans 10:14-17]
Also:
"Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jonah! For flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but My Father who is in heaven' (Matthew 16:17).
'The Lord opened [Lydia's] heart to pay attention to what was said by Paul' (Acts 16:14).
'No one can say, "Jesus is Lord" except by the Holy Spirit' (1 Corinthians 12:3).

And for yours? Did I leave something out?

 

[agedman]

Yes, the Bible says that all sinners must DO something before they can get saved. Read very carefully

"Now when they heard this they were cut to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, “Brothers, what shall we DO?...And Peter said to them, “Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit" (Acts 2:37-38)

Jesus Himself said, "unless you REPENT (DO) you will likewise perish" (Luke 13: 3, 5)

"what good thing must I DO to have eternal life?" (Matthew 19:16)

"When God saw what they DID and how they turned from their evil ways (REPENTED), he relented and did not bring on them the destruction he had threatened" (Jonah 3:10)

These all, like all sinners, RESPOND to the "convicting" (John 16:8-9), not "conversion" of the Holy Spirit, Who AFTER they have truly repented FIRST, "regenerates" their hearts!

This, my friend is what the Holy Bible very plainly says. Humans will of course twist and distort it!

It is unfortunate that you determine to add that humankind must do some act of work to be saved.

Each example that you gave was as YOU stated a response to the work of the Holy Spirit which awakened the person to the need to salvation. Such awakening IS conversion, that core change that only the Holy Spirit can accomplish through use of the Scriptures, that places ALL other aspects such as confession, repentance, baptism, fellowship, follow-ship, growth AFTER conversion.

Too often, the interest in some human capacity having to accomplish that which is authored and perfected by Christ is placed as some matter of determination.

Yet, the truth resides that Christ is the author of all faith, He alone is the perfecter of all faith.

Hebrews states this extremely clear in the 12th chapter:

1Therefore, since we have so great a cloud of witnesses surrounding us, let us also lay aside every encumbrance and the sin which so easily entangles us, and let us run with endurance the race that is set before us, 2fixing our eyes on Jesus, the author and perfecter of faith, who for the joy set before Him endured the cross, despising the shame, and has sat down at the right hand of the throne of God.

3For consider Him who has endured such hostility by sinners against Himself, so that you will not grow weary and lose heart.
​

There are those who demand some human attribute, some human accomplishment or some reliance upon human, do so usually to express or extend control.

I don't see that in your expressions, but I see a desire that both the ungodly and supposedly Godly people "turn from their wicked ways."

This is not a bad characteristic, and would not desire that such zeal diminish.

I truly desire that you merely place such repentance not as the catalyst bringing salvation, but the results of the author of all true faith bringing that person into both awareness to repent and confession.

 

[Martin Marprelate]

And for yours? Did I leave something out?

I was replying to @Jerome.

 

[Saved-By-Grace]

It is unfortunate that you determine to add that humankind must do some act of work to be saved.

Each example that you gave was as YOU stated a response to the work of the Holy Spirit which awakened the person to the need to salvation. Such awakening IS conversion, that core change that only the Holy Spirit can accomplish through use of the Scriptures, that places ALL other aspects such as confession, repentance, baptism, fellowship, follow-ship, growth AFTER conversion.

Too often, the interest in some human capacity having to accomplish that which is authored and perfected by Christ is placed as some matter of determination.

Yet, the truth resides that Christ is the author of all faith, He alone is the perfecter of all faith.

Hebrews states this extremely clear in the 12th chapter:

1Therefore, since we have so great a cloud of witnesses surrounding us, let us also lay aside every encumbrance and the sin which so easily entangles us, and let us run with endurance the race that is set before us, 2fixing our eyes on Jesus, the author and perfecter of faith, who for the joy set before Him endured the cross, despising the shame, and has sat down at the right hand of the throne of God.

3For consider Him who has endured such hostility by sinners against Himself, so that you will not grow weary and lose heart.
​

There are those who demand some human attribute, some human accomplishment or some reliance upon human, do so usually to express or extend control.

I don't see that in your expressions, but I see a desire that both the ungodly and supposedly Godly people "turn from their wicked ways."

This is not a bad characteristic, and would not desire that such zeal diminish.

I truly desire that you merely place such repentance not as the catalyst bringing salvation, but the results of the author of all true faith bringing that person into both awareness to repent and confession.

 

[Saved-By-Grace]

It is unfortunate that you determine to add that humankind must do some act of work to be saved.

Each example that you gave was as YOU stated a response to the work of the Holy Spirit which awakened the person to the need to salvation. Such awakening IS conversion, that core change that only the Holy Spirit can accomplish through use of the Scriptures, that places ALL other aspects such as confession, repentance, baptism, fellowship, follow-ship, growth AFTER conversion.

Too often, the interest in some human capacity having to accomplish that which is authored and perfected by Christ is placed as some matter of determination.

Yet, the truth resides that Christ is the author of all faith, He alone is the perfecter of all faith.

Hebrews states this extremely clear in the 12th chapter:

1Therefore, since we have so great a cloud of witnesses surrounding us, let us also lay aside every encumbrance and the sin which so easily entangles us, and let us run with endurance the race that is set before us, 2fixing our eyes on Jesus, the author and perfecter of faith, who for the joy set before Him endured the cross, despising the shame, and has sat down at the right hand of the throne of God.

3For consider Him who has endured such hostility by sinners against Himself, so that you will not grow weary and lose heart.
​

There are those who demand some human attribute, some human accomplishment or some reliance upon human, do so usually to express or extend control.

I don't see that in your expressions, but I see a desire that both the ungodly and supposedly Godly people "turn from their wicked ways."

This is not a bad characteristic, and would not desire that such zeal diminish.

I truly desire that you merely place such repentance not as the catalyst bringing salvation, but the results of the author of all true faith bringing that person into both awareness to repent and confession.

"Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord" (Acts 3:19 KJV)

The Bible's order of how God want it. You reverse it!

 

[Martin Marprelate]

Yes, the Bible says that all sinners must DO something before they can get saved. Read very carefully

"Now when they heard this they were cut to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, “Brothers, what shall we DO?...And Peter said to them, “Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit" (Acts 2:37-38)

Jesus Himself said, "unless you REPENT (DO) you will likewise perish" (Luke 13: 3, 5)

"what good thing must I DO to have eternal life?" (Matthew 19:16)

"When God saw what they DID and how they turned from their evil ways (REPENTED), he relented and did not bring on them the destruction he had threatened" (Jonah 3:10)

These all, like all sinners, RESPOND to the "convicting" (John 16:8-9), not "conversion" of the Holy Spirit, Who AFTER they have truly repented FIRST, "regenerates" their hearts!

This, my friend is what the Holy Bible very plainly says. Humans will of course twist and distort it!

You are quite correct that sinners must 'repent and believe' (Mark 1:15) before they can be saved. However, like faith, repentance is actually the gift of God (Acts 11:18; cf. Isaiah 42:6).

 

[agedman]

You are quite correct that sinners must 'repent and believe' (Mark 1:15) before they can be saved. However, like faith, repentance is actually the gift of God (Acts 11:18; cf. Isaiah 42:6).

You do realize that the audience the of your posts were not gentiles?

 

[Reformed]

I was replying to @Jerome.

Ahhh. Gotcha. I am unable to see his posts but your quote from our confession was spot on.

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