Conflict between OT priests and OT prophets?

[The Biblicist]

Some more scriptures:

Isaiah Chapter 1:11 (KJV) "To what purpose is the multitude of your sacrifices unto me? saith the LORD: I am full of the burnt offerings of rams, and the fat of fed beasts; and I delight not in the blood of bullocks, or of lambs, or of he goats." Verses 11-20 are also good and instructive.

Psalms 40:6 "Sacrifice and offering thou didst not desire; mine ears hast thou opened: burnt offering and sin offering hast thou not required."

Psalms 50 (KJV) 7 Hear, O my people, and I will speak; O Israel, and I will testify against thee: I am God, even thy God. 8 I will not reprove thee for thy sacrifices or thy burnt offerings, to have been continually before me. 9 I will take no bullock out of thy house, nor he goats out of thy folds. 10 For every beast of the forest is mine, and the cattle upon a thousand hills. 11 I know all the fowls of the mountains: and the wild beasts of the field are mine. 12 If I were hungry, I would not tell thee: for the world is mine, and the fulness thereof. 13 Will I eat the flesh of bulls, or drink the blood of goats? 14 Offer unto God thanksgiving; and pay thy vows unto the most High: 15 And call upon me in the day of trouble: I will deliver thee, and thou shalt glorify me.


And besides that, even within the sacrificial system, there are numerous verses where God is represented as accepting other things as a sacrifice or sin offering other than animals.

I still affirm the words of Jesus in Matthew 9:13 and 12:7.

In the words of the Psalmist, some here need to have their ears opened.

Personally, if anyone wants to believe that God is a ritual slaughterer, go ahead; it's no skin off my nose. But I do mind being labeled a heretic and blasphemer for what I believe. No one has a right to do that.

It is easy to show you are falsely interpreting your handful of texts. These texts in their context simply show that God refuses and repudiates HYPOCRITICAL acts of worship - period!

My interpretation HARMONIZES both your handful of texts and the multitude of texts while you don't even attempt to present an interpretation to harmonize scripture but rather simply PIT scritpure against scripture! There is no other rational conclusion to draw but that you are being genuinely dishonest with those texts you are abusing.

Mark 2:44 And saith unto him, See thou say nothing to any man: but go thy way, shew thyself to the priest, and offer for thy cleansing those things which Moses commanded, for a testimony unto them.


Michael, Jesus commanded this leper to obey the instructions of Leviticus 14 which required the bloody sacrifice of a bird for cleansing of a leper.

Do you believe Christ sinned by commanding him to offer such a bloody sacrifcie?

Do you believe Christ was commanding this man to conform to paganism?

Do you believe Christ was commanding this person to disobey those scriptures you quote?

 

[OldRegular]

I'm glad that I don't have to answer to you, accuser; you are not God, and I am thankful you're not a moderator. You're too much of a foaming-at-the-mouth, hating, lying fanatic to be a moderator.

And I hope you don't ever get banned, no matter how much you lie and accuse. I want to see you keep piling up those coals on your head higher and higher.

You are an apostate Michael Wrenn. You have said that the Levitical system of worship, instituted by God, was derived from pagan sources. That is blasphemy. You have denied the necessity of the sacrificial death of Jesus Christ on the thread "Atonement Theories"; that is apostasy.

Originally Posted by Michael Wrenn

The entire life of Jesus -- His Incarnation, ministry, death and resurrection -- was the basis of our reconciliation with God. Why does it matter so much to some how He died? Is it not enough that He died and rose again? If Jesus had come here as a human being and died of old age and rose again, would the at-one-ment, the reconciliation, been any less real, effective, or provided for?

From:http://www.baptistboard.com/showthread.php?p=1907958#post1907958

 

[Yeshua1]

Well, if one accepts the Genesis myth as history then one must conclude that all sacrifices have a Jewish origin. Only we "old earthers" can propose a pagan origin.<G>

Well, BOTh Jesus and the Apostle paul held to it being "literally true", so you would have a revealtion greater than theirs in regards to this?

 

[Yeshua1]

You are an apostate Michael Wrenn. You have said that the Levitical system of worship, instituted by God, was derived from pagan sources. That is blasphemy. You have denied the necessity of the sacrificial death of Jesus Christ on the thread "Atonement Theories"; that is apostasy.



From:http://www.baptistboard.com/showthread.php?p=1907958#post1907958

the Holy Spirit moved upon those who wrote BOTh OT/NT books, and ALL understood the salvation that was to come of the messiah as being of a sacrificial way, that he would die on behalf of His peoples . as a Sin bearer/propiation before the father, that the sacrifies in OT was established by God and pointed towards him who was to come...

IF one denies this, or worse yet, attributes that to pagen sources, aren't they denying the bible, and close to deny the work of christ on the cross?

 

[OldRegular]

the Holy Spirit moved upon those who wrote BOTh OT/NT books, and ALL understood the salvation that was to come of the messiah as being of a sacrificial way, that he would die on behalf of His peoples . as a Sin bearer/propiation before the father, that the sacrifies in OT was established by God and pointed towards him who was to come...

IF one denies this, or worse yet, attributes that to pagen sources, aren't they denying the bible, and close to deny the work of christ on the cross?

That is exactly right! In fact it seems to me that MW has already denied the necessity of the sacrificial death of Jesus Christ, saying his death of old age would have been adequate!

 

[OldRegular]

Well, BOTh Jesus and the Apostle paul held to it being "literally true", so you would have a revealtion greater than theirs in regards to this?

Right again.

When Jesus Christ was on this earth the Jews had collected the Old Testament Scripture, translated them to Greek, now called the Septuagint. If any of that Scripture had been false I believe that Jesus Christ would have said so to His followers.

 

[Michael Wrenn]

You are an apostate Michael Wrenn. You have said that the Levitical system of worship, instituted by God, was derived from pagan sources. That is blasphemy. You have denied the necessity of the sacrificial death of Jesus Christ on the thread "Atonement Theories"; that is apostasy.



From:http://www.baptistboard.com/showthread.php?p=1907958#post1907958

And for what you have just said about me, it is you who should be banned from this forum.

I denounce you and your lies, accuser. But I have no doubt God will defend me and deal with you. I wish I could see it.

You are one despicable human being.

 

[Michael Wrenn]

Still waiting to see Biblicist and OR say that if Jesus had not come, they would be out slicing aninmals' throats so God could forgive their sins.

Fess up, so we can see if you are hypocrites or not.

 

[Michael Wrenn]

When Jesus became incarnate, He was destined to die, and had He died in any other way than He did, it would have been sacrificial, even if He had died of old age. What is important, and what ritual slaughterers miss, is not how He died, but the meaning of His death.

My father died of old age, you might say; his death was not peaceful, though; it was long and drawn out, filled with agony and heartbreaking suffering though his blood was not spilled.

Guess that kind of death for Jesus wouldn't have been enough for you, huh, OR? I know with your mindset the atonement would not have happened unless God had His Son beat and tortured, and then killed out of vengeance and to appease His wrath.

 

[The Biblicist]

When Jesus became incarnate, He was destined to die, and had He died in any other way than He did, it would have been sacrificial, even if He had died of old age. What is important, and what ritual slaughterers miss, is not how He died, but the meaning of His death.

My father died of old age, you might say; his death was not peaceful, though; it was long and drawn out, filled with agony and heartbreaking suffering though his blood was not spilled.

Guess that kind of death for Jesus wouldn't have been enough for you, huh, OR? I know with your mindset the atonement would not have happened unless God had His Son beat and tortured, and then killed out of vengeance and to appease His wrath.

I have tried to be patient, reasonable and kind toward you on this subject. I have repeatedly put forth the example of Jesus on this very subject (three times) and yet you refuse to respond.

You are a heretic and you should be removed from this forum as your position is so rabid and radical and so obviously rediculous that only a heretic would embrace it.

 

[The Biblicist]

Still waiting to see Biblicist and OR say that if Jesus had not come, they would be out slicing aninmals' throats so God could forgive their sins.

Fess up, so we can see if you are hypocrites or not.

I have answered this rediculous question already. But let me answer it in a way you cannot possibly respond and that will show exactly what you really are - a heretic

Jesus Christ commanded the leper to go shed the blood of an animal in Luke 5:12-15 according to the Mosaic Law in Leviticus 14.

Lk. 5:14 And he charged him to tell no man: but go, and shew thyself to the priest, and offer for thy cleansing, according as Moses commanded, for a testimony unto them.

Lev. 14: 4 Then shall the priest command to take for him that is to be cleansed two birds alive and clean, and cedar wood, and scarlet, and hyssop:
5 And the priest shall command that one of the birds be killed in an earthen vessel over running water:
6 As for the living bird, he shall take it, and the cedar wood, and the scarlet, and the hyssop, and shall dip them and the living bird in the blood of the bird that was killed over the running water:

WOULD YOU OBEY THIS COMMANDMENT BY CHRIST?

Here is my answer to your question! YES, I would obey this command of Christ to shed the blood of the animal if I had been the one healed by him of lepersy and he commanded me to do so.

WOULD YOU?

 

[Michael Wrenn]

I have tried to be patient, reasonable and kind toward you on this subject. I have repeatedly put forth the example of Jesus on this very subject (three times) and yet you refuse to respond.

You are a heretic and you should be removed from this forum as your position is so rabid and radical and so obviously rediculous that only a heretic would embrace it.

I don't want anything from you, you liar and false accuser.

I have responded with the very words of Jesus, more than once; I'll go by that.

You should be removed because you have violated forum policy.

Get away from me, you whitewashed tomb.

 

[Michael Wrenn]

I will no longer respond to Biblicist and OR, chief among liars and false accusers. To me, from now on, they do not exist.

 

[The Biblicist]

I don't want anything from you, you liar and false accuser.

I have responded with the very words of Jesus, more than once; I'll go by that.

You should be removed because you have violated forum policy.

Get away from me, you whitewashed tomb.

You simple lied when you said you responded to my post about what Jesus commanded. You have NEVER responded to it for one good reason - YOU CAN'T and YOU KNOW IT. So you have taken the path of least resistance and that is name calling and the like. That is precisely why you are a heretic because you manifest the fruits of a heretic.

 

[Michael Wrenn]

These are the words of Jesus, which I would and will follow; I have posted this before:

Matt.9
[13] Go and learn what this means, `I desire mercy, and not sacrifice.' For I came not to call the righteous, but sinners.

Matt.12
[7] And if you had known what this means, `I desire mercy, and not sacrifice,' you would not have condemned the guiltless.

By falsely accusing me, the black-hearted accusers are condemned by their own words.

 

[The Biblicist]

These are the words of Jesus, which I would and will follow; I have posted this before:

Matt.9
[13] Go and learn what this means, `I desire mercy, and not sacrifice.' For I came not to call the righteous, but sinners.

Matt.12
[7] And if you had known what this means, `I desire mercy, and not sacrifice,' you would not have condemned the guiltless.

By falsely accusing me, the black-hearted accusers are condemned by their own words.

Readers, let this post be an obvious proof that Michael is a heretic. Not only does he deny the inspiration of whole books of the Bible (Genesis, Leviticus, Hebrews) - books that clearly and explicitly prove that the sacrificial system was PRE-CULTURE (Gen. 3-4) and instituted by God (Leviticus, Hebrews) but now he rejects SOME of Christ's words and commands while picking only the words of Christ that fits his own biased theology. If that does not characterize a true heretic NOTHING does!

 

[Michael Wrenn]

Readers, let this post be an obvious proof that Michael is a heretic. Not only does he deny the inspiration of whole books of the Bible (Genesis, Leviticus, Hebrews) - books that clearly and explicitly prove that the sacrificial system was PRE-CULTURE (Gen. 3-4) and instituted by God (Leviticus, Hebrews) but now he rejects SOME of Christ's words and commands while picking only the words of Christ that fits his own biased theology. If that does not characterize a true heretic NOTHING does!

Readers, let this post be an obvious prof that Biblicist is a heretic and liar. Not only does he misrepresent my views, but he rejects SOME of Christ's words and commands while picking only the words of Christ that fits his own biased theology. If that does not characterize a true heretic NOTHING does!

 

[The Biblicist]

I have answered this rediculous question already. But let me answer it in a way you cannot possibly respond and that will show exactly what you really are - a heretic

Jesus Christ commanded the leper to go shed the blood of an animal in Luke 5:12-15 according to the Mosaic Law in Leviticus 14.

Lk. 5:14 And he charged him to tell no man: but go, and shew thyself to the priest, and offer for thy cleansing, according as Moses commanded, for a testimony unto them.

Lev. 14: 4 Then shall the priest command to take for him that is to be cleansed two birds alive and clean, and cedar wood, and scarlet, and hyssop:
5 And the priest shall command that one of the birds be killed in an earthen vessel over running water:
6 As for the living bird, he shall take it, and the cedar wood, and the scarlet, and the hyssop, and shall dip them and the living bird in the blood of the bird that was killed over the running water:

WOULD YOU OBEY THIS COMMANDMENT BY CHRIST?

Here is my answer to your question! YES, I would obey this command of Christ to shed the blood of the animal if I had been the one healed by him of lepersy and he commanded me to do so.

WOULD YOU?

Above is a post that Michael cannot respond to and won't respond to because it show that Jesus Christ believed the Levitucal sacrificial system was instituted by God as He commanded a man to obey it and thus to practice it.

Michael is calling Jesus Christ a follower and believer in paganism!

 

[Michael Wrenn]

Biblicist has posted a damnable lie!

Here are the direct words of Jesus:

Matt.9
[13] Go and learn what this means, `I desire mercy, and not sacrifice.' For I came not to call the righteous, but sinners.

Matt.12
[7] And if you had known what this means, `I desire mercy, and not sacrifice,' you would not have condemned the guiltless.

Biblicist is calling Jesus a liar.

 

[The Biblicist]

I have answered this rediculous question already. But let me answer it in a way you cannot possibly respond and that will show exactly what you really are - a heretic

Jesus Christ commanded the leper to go shed the blood of an animal in Luke 5:12-15 according to the Mosaic Law in Leviticus 14.

Lk. 5:14 And he charged him to tell no man: but go, and shew thyself to the priest, and offer for thy cleansing, according as Moses commanded, for a testimony unto them.

Lev. 14: 4 Then shall the priest command to take for him that is to be cleansed two birds alive and clean, and cedar wood, and scarlet, and hyssop:
5 And the priest shall command that one of the birds be killed in an earthen vessel over running water:
6 As for the living bird, he shall take it, and the cedar wood, and the scarlet, and the hyssop, and shall dip them and the living bird in the blood of the bird that was killed over the running water:

WOULD YOU OBEY THIS COMMANDMENT BY CHRIST?

Here is my answer to your question! YES, I would obey this command of Christ to shed the blood of the animal if I had been the one healed by him of lepersy and he commanded me to do so.

WOULD YOU?

Again, Michael is not only pitting Christ's own words against Christ but is actually charging Christ as being a follower of paganism as Christ commanded his followers to make bloody sacrifices and the proof is above.

As far as the texts Michael quotes, only a heretic would interpret them as he does - OUT OF CONTEXT. He is simply repudiating HYPOCRITICAL acts of worship. In contrast he tells the healed man to offer up a blood sacrifice as Moses commanded as a sincere act of worship.